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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

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Coronavirus Impact on Air Travel

Old 10th May 2020, 18:01
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1
The problem is 1. for the UK that is nowhere near the true figure (excess deaths compared to normal is more like 55k and higher per 1m than Belgium) 2. we can argue about measures and comparisons all we want, we are worst in Europe or at best very bad on all of them. This is a massive headache for the UK aviation industry because it’s not just us suddenly quarantining it’ll be others quarantining us. Not to mention who would want to travel here. It’s quite enlightening looking at how other countries press are reporting us, both left and right wing.
You'd believe reading this forum and other forums of social media, that it would be nothing but instant death just to set foot outside of the home. As for the foreign press, you'll find that their default settings are: 1) Be critical of the US and everything they do. 2) Be critical of the UK and everything they do. This has always been the way. I guess it deflects from the reality of their own issues.
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Old 10th May 2020, 18:12
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I think the U.K. governments biggest mistake was not putting AirportPlanner1 in charge. He has all the answers to Covid 19 and is an armchair expert on the subject.

I think he is secretly loving this crisis so he can further his political views.
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Old 10th May 2020, 18:14
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Originally Posted by Spanish eyes
I think the U.K. governments biggest mistake was not putting AirportPlanner1 in charge. He has all the answers to Covid 19 and is an armchair expert on the subject.

I think he is secretly loving this crisis so he can further his political views.
I assume you think Iím correct once more but just donít like to hear it, since again youíve attacked me personally rather than the point made. Pathetic.
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Old 10th May 2020, 18:16
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Originally Posted by The96er
You'd believe reading this forum and other forums of social media, that it would be nothing but instant death just to set foot outside of the home. As for the foreign press, you'll find that their default settings are: 1) Be critical of the US and everything they do. 2) Be critical of the UK and everything they do. This has always been the way. I guess it deflects from the reality of their own issues.
British exceptionalism at its finest
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Old 10th May 2020, 18:42
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1
The problem is 1. for the UK that is nowhere near the true figure (excess deaths compared to normal is more like 55k and higher per 1m than Belgium)

But not all those excess deaths are due to Covid19. I'd be very wary of making sweeping assertions about who has done this or that better based on published mortality rates given that there is no standardised system of reporting and even when a Covid19 death is reported in many cases it is not based on confirmed testing.
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Old 10th May 2020, 18:51
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Originally Posted by Jet II
But not all those excess deaths are due to Covid19. I'd be very wary of making sweeping assertions about who has done this or that better based on published mortality rates given that there is no standardised system of reporting and even when a Covid19 death is reported in many cases it is not based on confirmed testing.
The excess deaths may not be due to Covid19 itís true and I canít say so any more than you or anyone (although the FT report the c55k figure from ONS figures does involve Covid), but it would be a massive coincidence for us to have an unrelated astronomical rise in deaths above what is normal just at the time of a global pandemic.
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Old 10th May 2020, 21:33
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Originally Posted by AirportPlanner1
The excess deaths may not be due to Covid19 itís true and I canít say so any more than you or anyone (although the FT report the c55k figure from ONS figures does involve Covid), but it would be a massive coincidence for us to have an unrelated astronomical rise in deaths above what is normal just at the time of a global pandemic.
Surely you would expect a rise in deaths if you restrict access to healthcare for things like coronary and cancer treatment?. That is also what is happening in the US where elective surgeries have been pretty much postponed across the country - so much so that Doctors and Nurses are getting laid off and hospitals going bust.

With regards to the comparison of mortality rates look at Germany's mortality rate which is often held up as an example to the UK.



Now in deaths per million of population Germany is much better than the UK, but it is also much better than Holland who have a similar system of Social Health Insurance and spend almost exactly the same per capita as Germany. So if the figures for Covid are correct what is Germany doing different to Holland and why does that not reflect in a much lower death rate for other respiratory illnesses like seasonal flu where Geramny loses almost exactly the same number of people as Holland when compared for the different size in population.

This is why I would not be taking any of the current published numbers from anywhere as actual proof of anything.
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Old 11th May 2020, 18:41
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Do we think the (ridiculously late) proposed U.K. quarantine period for international arrivals will include air crews being quarantined for 14 days?
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Old 11th May 2020, 22:36
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Originally Posted by Jet II
So if the figures for Covid are correct what is Germany doing different to Holland and why does that not reflect in a much lower death rate for other respiratory illnesses like seasonal flu where Geramny loses almost exactly the same number of people as Holland when compared for the different size in population.

This is why I would not be taking any of the current published numbers from anywhere as actual proof of anything.
In Holland there is an estimate of 5% infected among all citizens. So about 400.000 infected. 10x higher than reported numbers because most of them are not getting tested since they do not need any medical attention.

confirmed cases included in the published numbers are either hospitilzed or health care personell.

Death rate is estimated to be around 1.5% in Holland.
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Old 12th May 2020, 09:43
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Originally Posted by sinbad73
Do we think the (ridiculously late) proposed U.K. quarantine period for international arrivals will include air crews being quarantined for 14 days?
It was reported that key workers would be exempt such as lorry drivers so I assume a pilot would be classified in a similar fashion. Otherwise it would make no sense. However, this would probably only apply to those in active duty and not those traveling for training/commuting or whatever.
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Old 12th May 2020, 12:32
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From Spain....The Ministry of the Interior has this morning established restrictions on internal borders at ports and airports. These restrictions are in addition to those already adopted at land borders with France and Portugal.

From this Friday controls are temporarily re-established at the internal air and maritime borders from 00:00 on May 15th to 00:00 on May 24th, but could be extended if a further extension is approved.

Only the following persons will be allowed to enter the national territory by air and by sea:

a) Spanish citizens.
b) Residents in Spain, having to prove their habitual residence.
c) Cross-border workers.
d) Health or elderly care professionals who go to carry out their work activity.
e) Those with documentary reasons of force majeure or a situation of need.

Foreign personnel accredited as a member of diplomatic missions, consular offices and international organizations located in Spain are exempt from these restrictions, provided it is to perform their official duties.

In order to ensure the continuity of economic activity and to preserve the supply chain, these measures are not applicable to the transport of goods, including the crew of ships, in order to ensure the provision of maritime transport services and fishing activity and the aeronautical personnel necessary to carry out commercial air transport activities.
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Old 12th May 2020, 12:47
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https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/...y-matt-hancock

Further "government support" for the travel and tourism industries.Let's hope that the Chancellor has some financial measures up his sleeve this afternoon to mitigate against this announcement.
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Old 12th May 2020, 12:51
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Originally Posted by commit aviation
https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/...y-matt-hancock

Further "government support" for the travel and tourism industries.Let's hope that the Chancellor has some financial measures up his sleeve this afternoon to mitigate against this announcement.
More a statement of the bleediní obvious rather than not supporting anything. Who in their right mind would be booking anything they didnít have to for travel before October? Hopefully nearer the time things will be better for August/September, but I wouldnít put much money on it based on what we know at the moment.
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Old 12th May 2020, 13:02
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Curious Pax: Agreed in terms of where the winds were blowing and no way would I consider booking anything right now however there was no clear message coming from on high.
Airlines and airports were not getting any real guidance and that has led to different approaches.
With more airlines opting to test the market and offer possible start up dates, my impression is it has started to force the hand of governments to introduce measures such as quarantining.
Whether it is the right or wrong approach at the right or wrong time is open to debate but it might start to provide some clarity at least (both for industry and the travelling public.)

https://travelweekly.co.uk/articles/...eme-to-october

...and it looks like Rishi Sunak has done something positive on the support front here.
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Old 12th May 2020, 16:01
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I'm of the opinion the vast majority of people will (if national regulations allow) holiday in their own country. It means they can travel in their own vehicles, maybe rent a holiday property (rather than stay in a crowded hotel) and if they begin to feel unwell get back home with ease. As much as it pains me to say so, I think that the airline industry will suffer for a long time.
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Old 12th May 2020, 17:00
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The Spanish government imposes a 14-day quarantine in everyone entering Spain.

From this Friday, May 15th all people entering the country will have to remain in quarantine.

They will remain at home and it is only be allowed going out to buy food, medicines, going to the pharmacy or the Hospital, or other justified reasons.

It is mandatory that these people use masks during this period of time.

https://english.elpais.com/society/2...travelers.html
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Old 12th May 2020, 18:45
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Originally Posted by Pistonprop
I'm of the opinion the vast majority of people will (if national regulations allow) holiday in their own country. It means they can travel in their own vehicles, maybe rent a holiday property (rather than stay in a crowded hotel) and if they begin to feel unwell get back home with ease. As much as it pains me to say so, I think that the airline industry will suffer for a long time.
A little twist to that, We own a motorhome, fully self sufficient with solar power, generator, domestic size fridge etc and all our own 'facilities' so on the basis of the current advice we could self isolate anywhere quite legally, for a day trip or days on end in an isolated spot if it were allowed without meeting another human being. Total isolation.
However, right now I am scared to take it on the road as many owners of similar vehicles have received abuse, threats to themselves and of damage to what is a very expensive vehicle. I can do exactly the same trips to the beach in my car and no one says a word. Is that fair?
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Old 13th May 2020, 07:27
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LTNman. That's only half the story, as the quarantine period in Spain is only intended to last until the 4 Phases of de-escalation are complete which should be at the end of June. Therefore the period which this rule applies is 6-7 weeks. I don't know if this gives some kind of indication how long the UK quarantine period might last, ie.until then end of July?
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Old 13th May 2020, 08:53
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Originally Posted by Playamar2
I don't know if this gives some kind of indication how long the UK quarantine period might last, ie.until then end of July?
Probably when the Sun and the Mail give the ok!
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Old 13th May 2020, 09:04
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I am hopeful that air travel will go back to the 70s. Fewer airports fewer aircraft. Expensive flights should be the normal. It is great not seeing vapour trails across the sky. No new runway at LHR destroying countryside and communities. Microsoft Teams has now officially killed off mass business travel. This would be all good for the environment and reverse this and previous generations disrespect for preserving the planet for future generations. This madness of growth and more growth for what?
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