Sion SIR/LSGS
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5000 @ €500 = €2.5m.
A CRJ2 round trip charter from the UK to Sion with no positioning would cost around €15k so enough for 166 round trips!
Why were they then looking for another £1m?
A CRJ2 round trip charter from the UK to Sion with no positioning would cost around €15k so enough for 166 round trips!
Why were they then looking for another £1m?
Join Date: Sep 2016
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Staff costs, office accommodation, bonding, landing, parking, handling, de-icing, Eurocontrol, unforeseen circumstances, diversions, coaching pax, overnighting pax, light refreshment/meal vouchers, catering etc. etc. etc.
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All of the other costs are the responsibility of the Airline as they would have had to buy these as full Charters due to not being an airline themselves.
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Chidken Sangwich
Unless I'm behind the times, having been out of the industry for some 7 years, in just one of my previous lives I worked for an adhoc cargo airline whereas any Tom, Dick or Harry could charter us as ACMI or full charter.
Freight forwarders, someone working from home, even the likes of Amazon or Tesco who are not airlines themselves, we were the AOC holder responsible to the applicable authorities, the charterers were simply that, the charterer, the difference between ACMI and full charter is that full charter rates incluse an X factor, a buggeration factor, whereas ACMI can work out cheaper but then the charterer takes the financial risks.
Unless I'm behind the times, having been out of the industry for some 7 years, in just one of my previous lives I worked for an adhoc cargo airline whereas any Tom, Dick or Harry could charter us as ACMI or full charter.
Freight forwarders, someone working from home, even the likes of Amazon or Tesco who are not airlines themselves, we were the AOC holder responsible to the applicable authorities, the charterers were simply that, the charterer, the difference between ACMI and full charter is that full charter rates incluse an X factor, a buggeration factor, whereas ACMI can work out cheaper but then the charterer takes the financial risks.
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Chidken Sangwich
Cash flow. Their payment provider would only release the funds collected from passengers once the booking was flown. Therefore, all the costs associated with starting the operation and flying the first few weeks had to be funded.
The revenue from their 5000 bookings wasn't in the bank.
Cash flow. Their payment provider would only release the funds collected from passengers once the booking was flown. Therefore, all the costs associated with starting the operation and flying the first few weeks had to be funded.
The revenue from their 5000 bookings wasn't in the bank.
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Now that would explain it and also the great element that they are intending to refund in full which backs this up as funds are held until flown.
It does raise another question though, I’m not aware of many (if not any!) Airlines that will fly on credit I.e. taking payment for a charter post flight which this implies.
It does raise another question though, I’m not aware of many (if not any!) Airlines that will fly on credit I.e. taking payment for a charter post flight which this implies.
Join Date: Oct 2017
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Which brings us back to how they started up. If they had suitable backers in the first place, having now brought in backers with an aviation background vs a backer with no Aviation experience and who got scared by Brexit, All of this could have been avoided and the first load of customer would have flown over the weekend 
As for airlines flying on credit, they would only do it, if they had a BIG asset pool which they could secure the initial debt against. I woul,d be very surprised if any did do that
As for airlines flying on credit, they would only do it, if they had a BIG asset pool which they could secure the initial debt against. I woul,d be very surprised if any did do that
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In order to succeed, Powdair would have had to had sufficient funds to start up and keep going until such time their airline started to generate enough income to make a profit.
If you don't have those funds, you borrow or find investors. If you can't offer security, then you require a decent track record of success in business.
Everything I've read suggests that they wanted others to take the risk on their behalf.
If you don't have those funds, you borrow or find investors. If you can't offer security, then you require a decent track record of success in business.
Everything I've read suggests that they wanted others to take the risk on their behalf.
Join Date: Oct 2017
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So why invest if you know it's gonna sink? A proper investor would have sorted the big issues out much sooner, meaning what we've seen wouldn't have happened
They would invest because they see the potential, which it had/still has. very limited flying into an airport closer to certain ski resorts than GVA. Bundled with ski passes and they have a viable product.
This also ties in with their plans to fly to Innsbruck (INN) and Chambery (CMF), both airports closer to the action than the traditional hubs of Geneva/Grenoble/Salzberg
Lets just hope they learn their lesson for 2018,
They would invest because they see the potential, which it had/still has. very limited flying into an airport closer to certain ski resorts than GVA. Bundled with ski passes and they have a viable product.
This also ties in with their plans to fly to Innsbruck (INN) and Chambery (CMF), both airports closer to the action than the traditional hubs of Geneva/Grenoble/Salzberg
Lets just hope they learn their lesson for 2018,
Last edited by Plane.Silly; 5th Dec 2017 at 09:39. Reason: Clarification
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Yes, that’s what I meant. A “experienced” investor would have pulled the plug on the plan straight away and stopped the team doing the daft things that happened over the last months, like the A319, the 3 London departure points, the “borrowing” of Titans’ POW code, the SIR-ZRH route etc etc.
Of course, normally, an investor entrusts the management of the business he’s investing in not to do these mad things in the first place. In the case of Powdair money was only 1 of many missing elements.
Of course, normally, an investor entrusts the management of the business he’s investing in not to do these mad things in the first place. In the case of Powdair money was only 1 of many missing elements.
Last edited by flight_mode; 5th Dec 2017 at 10:33.
Join Date: Oct 2009
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Now after a few days later of the announcement of Powdair that nothing will happen, what might be a) the chance to come back and start this winter, and b) how will possible customers react? I guess nobody or only the most hard "followers" will belive anything from Powdair. In addition, in the Valais the situation might be the same, even the best stakeholders might not accept the way Powdair acted. And the big plans for next winter with flights to other Airports?
My best guess: Powdair is gone, not only "delayed", Anyone inhere to bet against?
My best guess: Powdair is gone, not only "delayed", Anyone inhere to bet against?
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Yes, most have apparently - although I know powdair are getting some stick from a few stragglers in getting refunded, due to the delay from the card payment provider back to the customer depending on which credit card etc... remember its world ticket that are the ones that held all the money - not powdair, and powdair is completely void of any control of the refund process other than give the instruction to refund which their CFO did in early December....
There is also a healthy amount going on for next season that's for sure!
There is also a healthy amount going on for next season that's for sure!
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Well, if the airport or anyone in the Valais is going to believe that Powdair and the people behind will start that again in 2018/2019 (and if Powdair itself believes this), I guess nobody can help them anymore. This chapter and Powdair is definitely history.