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Sion SIR/LSGS

Old 4th Dec 2017, 23:00
  #261 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
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5000 @ €500 = €2.5m.

A CRJ2 round trip charter from the UK to Sion with no positioning would cost around €15k so enough for 166 round trips!

Why were they then looking for another £1m?
Chidken Sangwich is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2017, 02:36
  #262 (permalink)  
 
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Staff costs, office accommodation, bonding, landing, parking, handling, de-icing, Eurocontrol, unforeseen circumstances, diversions, coaching pax, overnighting pax, light refreshment/meal vouchers, catering etc. etc. etc.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 05:36
  #263 (permalink)  
 
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Where can I buy this? In my opinion you are off by an order of magnitude
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 07:55
  #264 (permalink)  
 
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I'd imagine some executive pay would be squeezed in there too...
Plane.Silly is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2017, 08:08
  #265 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Harry Wayfarers View Post
Staff costs, office accommodation, bonding, landing, parking, handling, de-icing, Eurocontrol, unforeseen circumstances, diversions, coaching pax, overnighting pax, light refreshment/meal vouchers, catering etc. etc. etc.
But they’d have included Staff costs, office, bonding, diversions, coaching, LRVs into their Business Plan wouldn’t they...

All of the other costs are the responsibility of the Airline as they would have had to buy these as full Charters due to not being an airline themselves.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 08:09
  #266 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by atakacs View Post
Where can I buy this? In my opinion you are off by an order of magnitude
I can assure you I’m not.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 08:22
  #267 (permalink)  
 
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Chidken Sangwich

Unless I'm behind the times, having been out of the industry for some 7 years, in just one of my previous lives I worked for an adhoc cargo airline whereas any Tom, Dick or Harry could charter us as ACMI or full charter.

Freight forwarders, someone working from home, even the likes of Amazon or Tesco who are not airlines themselves, we were the AOC holder responsible to the applicable authorities, the charterers were simply that, the charterer, the difference between ACMI and full charter is that full charter rates incluse an X factor, a buggeration factor, whereas ACMI can work out cheaper but then the charterer takes the financial risks.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 08:54
  #268 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: ZRH
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Chidken Sangwich
Cash flow. Their payment provider would only release the funds collected from passengers once the booking was flown. Therefore, all the costs associated with starting the operation and flying the first few weeks had to be funded.

The revenue from their 5000 bookings wasn't in the bank.
flight_mode is offline  
Old 5th Dec 2017, 09:08
  #269 (permalink)  
 
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Now that would explain it and also the great element that they are intending to refund in full which backs this up as funds are held until flown.

It does raise another question though, I’m not aware of many (if not any!) Airlines that will fly on credit I.e. taking payment for a charter post flight which this implies.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 09:19
  #270 (permalink)  
 
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Which brings us back to how they started up. If they had suitable backers in the first place, having now brought in backers with an aviation background vs a backer with no Aviation experience and who got scared by Brexit, All of this could have been avoided and the first load of customer would have flown over the weekend

As for airlines flying on credit, they would only do it, if they had a BIG asset pool which they could secure the initial debt against. I woul,d be very surprised if any did do that
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 09:43
  #271 (permalink)  
 
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In order to succeed, Powdair would have had to had sufficient funds to start up and keep going until such time their airline started to generate enough income to make a profit.

If you don't have those funds, you borrow or find investors. If you can't offer security, then you require a decent track record of success in business.

Everything I've read suggests that they wanted others to take the risk on their behalf.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 10:21
  #272 (permalink)  
 
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Arguably, if they’d had an investor with aviation experience the plug would have been pulled sooner, not later.
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 10:36
  #273 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
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So why invest if you know it's gonna sink? A proper investor would have sorted the big issues out much sooner, meaning what we've seen wouldn't have happened

They would invest because they see the potential, which it had/still has. very limited flying into an airport closer to certain ski resorts than GVA. Bundled with ski passes and they have a viable product.
This also ties in with their plans to fly to Innsbruck (INN) and Chambery (CMF), both airports closer to the action than the traditional hubs of Geneva/Grenoble/Salzberg

Lets just hope they learn their lesson for 2018,

Last edited by Plane.Silly; 5th Dec 2017 at 10:39. Reason: Clarification
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Old 5th Dec 2017, 11:18
  #274 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Yes, that’s what I meant. A “experienced” investor would have pulled the plug on the plan straight away and stopped the team doing the daft things that happened over the last months, like the A319, the 3 London departure points, the “borrowing” of Titans’ POW code, the SIR-ZRH route etc etc.

Of course, normally, an investor entrusts the management of the business he’s investing in not to do these mad things in the first place. In the case of Powdair money was only 1 of many missing elements.

Last edited by flight_mode; 5th Dec 2017 at 11:33.
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 06:17
  #275 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Europe
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Now after a few days later of the announcement of Powdair that nothing will happen, what might be a) the chance to come back and start this winter, and b) how will possible customers react? I guess nobody or only the most hard "followers" will belive anything from Powdair. In addition, in the Valais the situation might be the same, even the best stakeholders might not accept the way Powdair acted. And the big plans for next winter with flights to other Airports?
My best guess: Powdair is gone, not only "delayed", Anyone inhere to bet against?
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 07:53
  #276 (permalink)  
 
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I'll bet against, i think if they get their act together, they're in with a shot over the Winter 2018-19 period
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Old 7th Dec 2017, 22:54
  #277 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
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I'm with takeoff53 on this one absolutely so.
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 11:29
  #278 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2017
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refunds

Has anyone received any refunds for booked flights yet?
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Old 4th Feb 2018, 18:27
  #279 (permalink)  
 
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Yes, most have apparently - although I know powdair are getting some stick from a few stragglers in getting refunded, due to the delay from the card payment provider back to the customer depending on which credit card etc... remember its world ticket that are the ones that held all the money - not powdair, and powdair is completely void of any control of the refund process other than give the instruction to refund which their CFO did in early December....

There is also a healthy amount going on for next season that's for sure!
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Old 11th Feb 2018, 09:02
  #280 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Europe
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Well, if the airport or anyone in the Valais is going to believe that Powdair and the people behind will start that again in 2018/2019 (and if Powdair itself believes this), I guess nobody can help them anymore. This chapter and Powdair is definitely history.
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