Airlines, Airports & Routes Topics about airports, routes and airline business.

Sion SIR/LSGS

Old 27th Jun 2017, 20:30
  #61 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2016
Location: Essex
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 0
Received 7 Likes on 5 Posts
I have absolutely nothing new to add, but I think it's fair to say that if the relationship between the two parties is as toxic as it appears, it's unlikely to end well.
DC3 Dave is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 20:41
  #62 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 58
Posts: 1,926
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
I muss say this is getting weirder by the day...
atakacs is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 20:53
  #63 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,675
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 17 Posts
I wonder what the people running Sion airport and the Valais cantonal Govt think of all of this...
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 21:05
  #64 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: ZRH
Age: 44
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At this rate they'll be planning a second terminal and a name change to Sion International
flight_mode is offline  
Old 27th Jun 2017, 21:13
  #65 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 58
Posts: 1,926
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Originally Posted by flight_mode
At this rate they'll be planning a second terminal and a name change to Sion International
Indeed! Long live the 380 in Sion international 😂
atakacs is offline  
Old 28th Jun 2017, 05:18
  #66 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 579
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
By the sounds of things here in Sion MI / SX will regret their silly actions against pow..
Jetscream 32 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2017, 12:16
  #67 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
PowdAir commercial realities

Some commentary on the PowdAir commercial scenario.

It is challenging because of:

- the directional nature of demand (assuming little outbound demand from SION)
- the single market sector
- the flight dates not matching HOTAC availability in peak periods
- the potential for aggressive DOW pricing competition from OCs.

As a skier, I’m impressed by their marketing communications & see PowdAir as doing all they can to raise 'Destination Sion' awareness & create early demand & market buzz. I suspect most customers won’t be thinking about the operational / commercial elements raised in this thread. The airline hasn’t helped itself by publicly flip-flopping on their Ops plans nor by having their initial selling dates slip but once again most customers won’t be aware or care.... & it is normal in a pre-launch period that these issues crop up. Sion airport or the local authority may have put up a launch fund and I suspect they will be happy with the marketing comms to-date.

Re: Weather concerns - most skiers understand it goes with the territory (sorry) & higher-end i.e. less price-sensitive skiers will like the PowdAir / Sion proposition in the way its being presented with fixed fares, quick transfers, skis included, season-pass FF discount & overall niche, simple style. However, are there enough of this sub-set of customers across the listed catchment areas to achieve the (assumed) high SF needed to break-even on an ACMI deal? Difficult.

Another issue is lack of distribution. Are WT supporting GDS connectivity or any ticketing outside of the direct website booking engine? Is the strategy 100% B2C? There is no travel agent’s portal currently. The airline offers transfers * which is a pragmatic customer service & allows for extra revenue generation but overall I foresee PowdAir having to be much more sophisticated with both their Pricing & distribution. There are many good reasons why airlines have layered fare levels, multiple booking classes & significant resources focused on revenue, yield & channel management. One size does not fit all.

Lastly, I do not understand the ‘own-AOC’ announcement. Their entire proposition only works when focused on the ski season so apart from a whole raft of financial and operational requirements & responsibilities - what benefits does an AOC bring?

* Not sure as I write of the ATOL requirements when selling 2 components (albeit separately)?
View from a hill is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2017, 15:40
  #68 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 579
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
VFAH,

Some interesting commentary, and very valid - my only point from a position of knowledge here in Sion is the outbound market to UK is very compelling I can assure you especially for those residents of Lausanne / Montreux, Vaud etc - have you ever done the route from here to Geneva in normal daytime traffic or even peak travel times - year round... its uuuurrrggghhhhhhhh!! Yuk!

Hotac is changing rapidly here in the Valais to much more of an AirBnB type scenario, so the whole TO saturday to saturday is not really valid anymore!

I raised the GDS / TO distributrion question to them this week as they were here, sounds like GDS will be fully installed by end of July... I wont repeat what he said to me re the AOC but they are not just planning a winter schedule, and re your ATOL question they are Irish so ATOL is nothing to do with them..

I think most people her ethough are of the opinion that Swiss will just let them start and run for a full season then muscle in? But hey who knows - Brexit and open skies may put paid to all of that
Jetscream 32 is offline  
Old 29th Jun 2017, 16:54
  #69 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: ZRH
Age: 44
Posts: 152
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Jetscream 32
I think most people her ethough are of the opinion that Swiss will just let them start and run for a full season then muscle in? But hey who knows - Brexit and open skies may put paid to all of that
It could already be crowded if SX are there too! I'm sure Swiss are watching carefully but if they weigh in it would unlikely to to any PowdAir destinations. If SX are really on the war path then three's a crowd and Swiss will get the popcorn .
flight_mode is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2017, 07:00
  #70 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 579
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
SX on a war path....haha
From all the rumours here I think they need to focus on trying to stay alive...Clearly not the most dynamic and forward thinking of regional airlines, but bizarre behavior all the same.... still "now't queer as folk" as they say!
Jetscream 32 is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2017, 10:00
  #71 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2017
Location: UK
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
JS32

Thanks for those insights, if there is some local, outbound demand then that is a bonus and again if there is plenty of ad hoc accommodation available in the Valais that too removes that issue.

I wish them well so lets see what happens in the next weeks/ months re aircraft, AOC, competition & distribution.
View from a hill is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2017, 12:29
  #72 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Blighty
Posts: 5,675
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 17 Posts
Jetscream - every time I've travelled between anywhere like Lausanne or Vevey and Geneva airport, I've always taken the train. Apart from the occasional minor delay, it has always worked extremely well
Train fares for non Swiss residents are not particularly cheap (the half fare card for local residents seems a bargain to me), but without Geneva's economies of scale, I doubt Sion is going to be linked with ultra cheap air fares

Could you tell us a little more about why you think there will be demand from people based near Sion to use this service ?

Last edited by davidjohnson6; 1st Jul 2017 at 12:41.
davidjohnson6 is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2017, 17:46
  #73 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 579
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Hey David,

Absolutely no issues with the trains in Switzerland, powdair have only been targeting the inbound UK to launch to date it seems, but the amount of locals that are super excited especially for short stays outbound to EDI seems to be going viral here. They all want whiskey tours.... With any airline schedule the magic sauce sits in the frequency and timings - it certainly seems in talking to powdair when I've wondered over the other side to the terminal and talking to some influencers here in Sion that there is a slightly bigger picture than what I think is visible in public domain right now.

Rumours here that they signed a new hire on Friday that I think will improve their chances if its true! Its certainly the talk of the town here so will be an interesting one to watch for sure.

I will caveat everything I am saying mind you with the normal tunes etc, as our flight office is the other side of the airport on the TAG side
Jetscream 32 is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2017, 19:01
  #74 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Is that the 4th potential operator for Powdair now (Denmarks BackBone wet lease using a CRJ200) ?
This sounds weird, when Airbuses and F100s were first mooted
CabinCrewe is offline  
Old 26th Jul 2017, 22:29
  #75 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 579
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
From the ear to the ground here at SIR

Apparently the F100's were never in contention and this was a rumour that got out of control.... sounds familiar! The airbus from Atlantic was a good option but thats a big beast for here on a daily service and tbh - think it was too big and actually sensible they didnt do anything with it.. Then they tried to deal with Skyworks...that clearly didnt work out but by the sounds of things a pair of CRJ 200's will probably be ok as long as too many people dont want to carry their ski's . After all its only a stretched biz jet and we have lots and lots of those in here!
At least its still alive and making progress, which for a start up is positive in any light!
Jetscream 32 is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2017, 08:01
  #76 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well, the F100's have been promoted by Powdair including the name of the operator and with statements towards the press "the pilots are starting training soon...".
Then the A319 came into play with the memorable remark that Powdair switched to the bus "due to huge demand....". Then the E170 appeared nicley branded, with the information, "two of them will be used". The next step was an E170 plus an E190, those two aircraft should operated on the different routes "based on demand". And now back to a 50-seater "due to huge demand....???" operated by a Danish Company with, I guess, not much experience with such an Operation? Weird!
Is the CRJ capable to fly the steep Approach?
Takeoff53 is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2017, 17:44
  #77 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Geneva, Switzerland
Age: 58
Posts: 1,926
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
I was under the impression that one of the USP was the free transportation of the ski equipment? Not an easy proposition with the CRJ me thinks
atakacs is offline  
Old 27th Jul 2017, 17:58
  #78 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Essex
Posts: 802
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Skywork still selling tickets I see.
tws123 is offline  
Old 29th Jul 2017, 10:16
  #79 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Central Europe
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Anyone here with some experience on the CRJ200? How about flying from ANR with the short RWY to SIR? Steep APPR 6° in SIR? Naviagation capability to fly this APPR in SIR?
Takeoff53 is offline  
Old 30th Jul 2017, 06:49
  #80 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: 1000ft above you, giving you the bird!
Posts: 579
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by Takeoff53
Anyone here with some experience on the CRJ200? How about flying from ANR with the short RWY to SIR? Steep APPR 6° in SIR? Naviagation capability to fly this APPR in SIR?
Yep there's no problem with it as the a/c is only a stretched challenger - the approach is only steep to 7nm then flattens out to standard 3 degrees with a jink around the rock, not much of an issue tbh..

and as for the change in a/c - as said before my understanding is the F100 was never in contention due to performance, Atlantics airbus was a good offer but the timing I don't think worked, the E170's I know they would desperately love but again my understanding is that Skywork moved the goal posts, so I think they've taken the CRJ 200's out of desperation more than choice - there really isn't that many 70-100 ACMI aircraft around for Europe that I can see
Jetscream 32 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.