BIRMINGHAM - 6
Join Date: Jan 2007
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ATNOTTS.
Andrew
I wonder whether the Saudia route had been planned for a while, and instead of just letting the A340 sit around, went into BHX with an expectation that they would always pull out if and when the Saudia deal went through in the end ?
Nigel
Andrew
I wonder whether the Saudia route had been planned for a while, and instead of just letting the A340 sit around, went into BHX with an expectation that they would always pull out if and when the Saudia deal went through in the end ?
Nigel
Nigel,
May well be the case but if it is it's got to be one of the worst business / marketing decisions they could have made. After all, what have they actually gained? I would have thought keeping an A340 on the ground would have been a better option.
May well be the case but if it is it's got to be one of the worst business / marketing decisions they could have made. After all, what have they actually gained? I would have thought keeping an A340 on the ground would have been a better option.
As we all know when a plane is on the ground it's not earning money so I guess they have used BHX as a trial and like I've said had a taster.
At another level, an aircraft sat on the deck loses less cash, that one flying and not making a profit. That's why Ryanair lay up so many in the off season.
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Yes I understand what you mean but I thought air blue was doing very well at BHX which they must have had an idea it would do well or like you say it would have been better to have kept the aircraft grounded until they knew the situation with Saudi.
Now they know what the loads and yields are like at BHX which from what I've read on here and other forums have been good then they will probably be back when they get more aircraft.
It will also be interesting to see how many passengers will get a refund and either not go at all or decide to go with PIA instead and how many will take the journey up to MAN.
Now they know what the loads and yields are like at BHX which from what I've read on here and other forums have been good then they will probably be back when they get more aircraft.
It will also be interesting to see how many passengers will get a refund and either not go at all or decide to go with PIA instead and how many will take the journey up to MAN.
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Justplanecrazy/ATNotts.
The loads were very strange 263 in on the last I think but 90 out.. From someone who loads them at BHX it is rammed with freight though he says.
If they do come back perhaps a A319 might better suit..it took MAN some years to get established on an A319 before they very recently upped it to the A340.
Nigel
The loads were very strange 263 in on the last I think but 90 out.. From someone who loads them at BHX it is rammed with freight though he says.
If they do come back perhaps a A319 might better suit..it took MAN some years to get established on an A319 before they very recently upped it to the A340.
Nigel
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: South of MAN, North of BHX, and well clear of Stoke ;-)
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I get the impression that Air Blue had no idea how long it would take for Saudi to give the green light.
BHX was very much plan B, along the lines of when bmi chucked their A330s up to MAN whilst they waited for access to LHR. The aircraft was always destined for elsewhere; just nobody knew when it was going to happen.
The fact Saudi gave the green light far sooner than anyone anticipated meant Air Blue had to cut and run from BHX.
I am in no doubt that some of the loads gave the carrier some pleasant surprises, but when put up against access to Saudi and its rich pickings, there really wasn't ever going to be any outcome other than what has happened.
BHX was very much plan B, along the lines of when bmi chucked their A330s up to MAN whilst they waited for access to LHR. The aircraft was always destined for elsewhere; just nobody knew when it was going to happen.
The fact Saudi gave the green light far sooner than anyone anticipated meant Air Blue had to cut and run from BHX.
I am in no doubt that some of the loads gave the carrier some pleasant surprises, but when put up against access to Saudi and its rich pickings, there really wasn't ever going to be any outcome other than what has happened.
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In hindsight perhaps they should have just laid on a few extra flights into MAN for the interim; at least that way they wouldn't have been seen to be pulling out. Any return by Airblue to BHX now is likely to be met with much trepidation by travel agencies and passengers.
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Stoneybridge
My thoughts entirely
Nigel O
When Air Blue started at MAN they had no long haul or wide bodied aircraft; just A319/21 and the flight had to make a tech stop - initially at Trabzon I think and later Ankara. The A340s didn't arrive in their fleet until about a year ago, allowing them to go non-stop.
I get the impression that Air Blue had no idea how long it would take for Saudi to give the green light.
BHX was very much plan B, along the lines of when bmi chucked their A330s up to MAN whilst they waited for access to LHR. The aircraft was always destined for elsewhere; just nobody knew when it was going to happen.
The fact Saudi gave the green light far sooner than anyone anticipated meant Air Blue had to cut and run from BHX.
I am in no doubt that some of the loads gave the carrier some pleasant surprises, but when put up against access to Saudi and its rich pickings, there really wasn't ever going to be any outcome other than what has happened.
BHX was very much plan B, along the lines of when bmi chucked their A330s up to MAN whilst they waited for access to LHR. The aircraft was always destined for elsewhere; just nobody knew when it was going to happen.
The fact Saudi gave the green light far sooner than anyone anticipated meant Air Blue had to cut and run from BHX.
I am in no doubt that some of the loads gave the carrier some pleasant surprises, but when put up against access to Saudi and its rich pickings, there really wasn't ever going to be any outcome other than what has happened.
Nigel O
If they do come back perhaps a A319 might better suit..it took MAN some years to get established on an A319 before they very recently upped it to the A340.
Here's the Beebs take on Air Blue with one comment that BHX is disappointed with the decision!
BBC News - Air Blue suspends Birmingham to Pakistan flights
Love this bit:-
Yeah of course they will!!
BBC News - Air Blue suspends Birmingham to Pakistan flights
Love this bit:-
but had been assured the services would be reinstated in the spring of next year.
Join Date: Feb 2004
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A few things about AirBlue
1. The current usage of their two 340s is abysmal. They only require one per week whilst the other gets parked.
2. From December the Manchester route returns to three weekly - Coincidentally the extra being a Tuesday rotation (Same as the cancelled BHX rotation)
3. Loads have been better even at Manchester
4. The two 340s are too large from them
5. Their finances are weak
6. The management lied to Birmingham
7.The Saudi route is scheduled to use a 320 - They have a new one due very soon.
1. The current usage of their two 340s is abysmal. They only require one per week whilst the other gets parked.
2. From December the Manchester route returns to three weekly - Coincidentally the extra being a Tuesday rotation (Same as the cancelled BHX rotation)
3. Loads have been better even at Manchester
4. The two 340s are too large from them
5. Their finances are weak
6. The management lied to Birmingham
7.The Saudi route is scheduled to use a 320 - They have a new one due very soon.
6. The management lied to Birmingham
Corruption rife in the Pakistani community, says minister - Telegraph
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Air Blue
You would have thought BHX management were now experts at spotting airline management lies and b
t after having already had dealings with quality and professional outfits as Flywho, Comtelair, Hellenic, Armavia, Air Sylhet to name but a few. Obviously not! 
I hope Biman do not join the list of here today gone tomorrow operators at BHX. These type of airlines do nothing for the image of the airport at all. Get some bloody quality long haul carriers in!!
t after having already had dealings with quality and professional outfits as Flywho, Comtelair, Hellenic, Armavia, Air Sylhet to name but a few. Obviously not! I hope Biman do not join the list of here today gone tomorrow operators at BHX. These type of airlines do nothing for the image of the airport at all. Get some bloody quality long haul carriers in!!
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GF
OK I'm no Airline Route Procurement Executive (In my dreams perhaps) : but some basic "Duty of Care - Due Diligence " sort of procedural processes would have been applied here by both sides, as a mutual protective activity, by contract, and established by mutual agreement to protect both parties. and third party customers
I'm not really qualified to express a direct opinion in this case, but surly - as part of the established "Economic validation criteria of a potential customer " the "provider" and "customer" would mutually agree on an "established pattern of service" for an agreed period, subject to agreed unforeseen circumstances.
What went wrong: Better informed contributors than I have raised pertinent questions in this respect.
CAT III
I'm not really qualified to express a direct opinion in this case, but surly - as part of the established "Economic validation criteria of a potential customer " the "provider" and "customer" would mutually agree on an "established pattern of service" for an agreed period, subject to agreed unforeseen circumstances.
What went wrong: Better informed contributors than I have raised pertinent questions in this respect.
CAT III
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Please clarify !
They are an established Manchester carrier of many years and any incentives may well be illegal.
Much more likely BHX operators offered introductory deals which Airblue have now reneged on !
As for Biman as they have yet to receive the necessary US certifications this route remains in the air as well.
They also have a decidedly doggy record of opening and rapidly pulling routes with a host of excuses.
As for a sale/lease back option to an EU registered carrier the proposed operator better make sure they get a super satisfactory credit line !
IMO only AI have the potential of staying the course (GOI interference excepted)
They are an established Manchester carrier of many years and any incentives may well be illegal.
Much more likely BHX operators offered introductory deals which Airblue have now reneged on !
As for Biman as they have yet to receive the necessary US certifications this route remains in the air as well.
They also have a decidedly doggy record of opening and rapidly pulling routes with a host of excuses.
As for a sale/lease back option to an EU registered carrier the proposed operator better make sure they get a super satisfactory credit line !
IMO only AI have the potential of staying the course (GOI interference excepted)
As for Biman as they have yet to receive the necessary US certifications this route remains in the air as well.
They also have a decidedly doggy record of opening and rapidly pulling routes with a host of excuses.
They also have a decidedly doggy record of opening and rapidly pulling routes with a host of excuses.
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To change the Air blue subject..... I see in the local paper that there is an advertisement for santa flights to Lapland starting next month . Only problem for midlanders is that you have a choice of departure airports, Norwich or Gatwick ! And these are day trips too.
Are there no flights available this year, I'm sure there have been some in the past.
Are there no flights available this year, I'm sure there have been some in the past.