BIRMINGHAM - 6
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AT Notts
You are right, the world economy is moving east - and the AI service to Delhi is a good foothold for business in that market. I still think that BHX could support more T/A but EDI as you say has more pull as a tourist destination for North Americans.
No services east from EDI at the mo, although TK is a start - but would not rule that out in the future although that rumour has been going as long on that thread as QR has at BHX.......
As for objects round the house, I think the argument should be 'how many can you find made in the UK' sadly the answer being not that many although that is a subject for a completely different type of forum.......
Nigel, yes it's the BHX thread but you can't simply stick your head in the sand and ignore things going on at other airports that may affect ops/growth at BHX or be used as a discussion point for something happening/not happening at BHX - that's what BHX seemingly did when BA held sway and look what happened there
You are right, the world economy is moving east - and the AI service to Delhi is a good foothold for business in that market. I still think that BHX could support more T/A but EDI as you say has more pull as a tourist destination for North Americans.
No services east from EDI at the mo, although TK is a start - but would not rule that out in the future although that rumour has been going as long on that thread as QR has at BHX.......
As for objects round the house, I think the argument should be 'how many can you find made in the UK' sadly the answer being not that many although that is a subject for a completely different type of forum.......
Nigel, yes it's the BHX thread but you can't simply stick your head in the sand and ignore things going on at other airports that may affect ops/growth at BHX or be used as a discussion point for something happening/not happening at BHX - that's what BHX seemingly did when BA held sway and look what happened there
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A route to China need not be primarily O&D. Recently several Chinese airlines have been publishing aggressively priced fares in business class for travel to SEA and Australia (not sure what their Y fares are like). China Southern has had some real bargains to SYD ex BHX via AMS (KL) and CAN.
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A route to China need not be primarily O&D. Recently several Chinese airlines have been publishing aggressively priced fares in business class for travel to SEA and Australia (not sure what their Y fares are like). China Southern has had some real bargains to SYD ex BHX via AMS (KL) and CAN.
China, India and the rest of the far east and subcontinent, which it seams is exactly what BHX seems to be doing.
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One for the spotters out there-
Reference to potential BHX-china flights, wouldn't a 'combi' style aircraft be more suitable or even possible? Do any Chinese carriers possess combi 777, 787 or 330s?
In regards to possible JLR/MG freight, with a combi you can have the best of both worlds whilst reducing the large amount of seats for pax.
Reference to potential BHX-china flights, wouldn't a 'combi' style aircraft be more suitable or even possible? Do any Chinese carriers possess combi 777, 787 or 330s?
In regards to possible JLR/MG freight, with a combi you can have the best of both worlds whilst reducing the large amount of seats for pax.
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One for the spotters out there-
Reference to potential BHX-china flights, wouldn't a 'combi' style aircraft be more suitable or even possible? Do any Chinese carriers possess combi 777, 787 or 330s?
In regards to possible JLR/MG freight, with a combi you can have the best of both worlds whilst reducing the large amount of seats for pax.
Reference to potential BHX-china flights, wouldn't a 'combi' style aircraft be more suitable or even possible? Do any Chinese carriers possess combi 777, 787 or 330s?
In regards to possible JLR/MG freight, with a combi you can have the best of both worlds whilst reducing the large amount of seats for pax.
The last was the B744M which is flying with KLM.
Passengers and freight on the same deck is no longer certifiable. Once KLM get rid of theirs and the ATI DC-8 soon disappears, that will be the end of combo flying apart from Alaska's B737-400 and a few B732 Combis flying around Northern Canada IIRC.
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Possible China flight
Many of the references to possible flights to China have mentioned JLR and MG. I think it should be pointed out that the Chinese automotive interest in the West Midlands also includes the Geely Group which has bought and invested heavily in what we call the London Black Cab in Coventry.
And already the Geely group is reported as supplying the Coventry plant with parts from China. There could possibly be other Chinese interest in the region's automotive sector.
I make this point because I am sure that any thrust BHX management make to the Chinese in the hope of opening up a route will dwell heavily on this sector. Even now, it is a sector with high value to both countries but is one, as the economy improves, will only get become more valuable.
I would like to think that being able to offer such strong business links within one sector must be of great advantage.
And already the Geely group is reported as supplying the Coventry plant with parts from China. There could possibly be other Chinese interest in the region's automotive sector.
I make this point because I am sure that any thrust BHX management make to the Chinese in the hope of opening up a route will dwell heavily on this sector. Even now, it is a sector with high value to both countries but is one, as the economy improves, will only get become more valuable.
I would like to think that being able to offer such strong business links within one sector must be of great advantage.
Many of the references to possible flights to China have mentioned JLR and MG. I think it should be pointed out that the Chinese automotive interest in the West Midlands also includes the Geely Group which has bought and invested heavily in what we call the London Black Cab in Coventry.
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October pax up 4.3%
From the CAA: Another good month considering how the IT flights seem to disappear quicker then ever.
830233 up 4.3% rolling 12 months 9056876 +2.1%
ATM'S7985 +7.3% rolling 84587 +0.7%
Air India 7050 average 195 pax or 77% (Turkmen down 900 pax -18%)
Islamabad was up 41% at 9280 and more than Heathrow
Emirates was up 10% 43000 avg 347 pax or 83% load factor
Turkish up 19% 10368 average 117 about 76%
Newark up 13% 8073 avg 155 or 92% load factor
BHX seem to be in it for the long-haul
Pete
830233 up 4.3% rolling 12 months 9056876 +2.1%
ATM'S7985 +7.3% rolling 84587 +0.7%
Air India 7050 average 195 pax or 77% (Turkmen down 900 pax -18%)
Islamabad was up 41% at 9280 and more than Heathrow
Emirates was up 10% 43000 avg 347 pax or 83% load factor
Turkish up 19% 10368 average 117 about 76%
Newark up 13% 8073 avg 155 or 92% load factor
BHX seem to be in it for the long-haul
Pete
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OltonPete,
Some great figures here especially long haul, three months and Air India consistently over 75% who needs time to build it up huh !
United Newark at 92% in October and cutting more winter rotations, seems excessive ?
Dubai What a recovery from last year when we had 62% to 82% this.
Nigel
Some great figures here especially long haul, three months and Air India consistently over 75% who needs time to build it up huh !
United Newark at 92% in October and cutting more winter rotations, seems excessive ?
Dubai What a recovery from last year when we had 62% to 82% this.
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Islamabad was up 41% at 9280 and more than Heathrow
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Be cautious about those % increases
BIRMINGHAM - BRUSSELS down 4% , Berlin down 17% Hanover & Hamburg down and Munich down 6%. - Frankfurt up 8% - Dus Up too at 5% Provisional figs I know - and an overall increase is what it says on the Tin.
I only looked at some Brussels/German Figs, but the fuller picture is much more complex and I have not applied any clever interpretations to the numbers.
CAT III
I only looked at some Brussels/German Figs, but the fuller picture is much more complex and I have not applied any clever interpretations to the numbers.
CAT III
Last edited by Guest 112233; 16th Nov 2013 at 13:02.
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CAT 111 apparently even with a half load Brussels is one of BHX most profitable routes. Its been 45-55% load factors for years.
MAN also sees similar load factors on it.
Air France has now gone from an A318 de fault to a 319 with 320s and 321s on selected dates.
Nigel
MAN also sees similar load factors on it.
Air France has now gone from an A318 de fault to a 319 with 320s and 321s on selected dates.
Nigel
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STATS
CATIII-NDB
There are some valid explanations such as Munich, which had Monarch operating last October amounting to 18 sectors, which probably means LH carried more passenger in October 13 than they did in October 12.
Hamburg was double daily last October as was Hanover, alas Hamburg was still miserable at 45 pax per flight (barely 50% load factor) whereas flybe managed 63 pax per flight at 77% and really should be making money on that although nothing is ceratin with them at the moment.
Berlin I believe is suffering from three effects -
1) timings which only suit inbound German pax (hopefully good yields though)
2) a reduction in seats as the weekend services were on the CR9
3) the third one I am less confident about and that the initial interest of a new a route has gone. I was one who booked within days on it going on sale and I know loads of people who also used it in the first six months but it is probably a destination that needs time to build in respect of business pax?
Now DUS & FRA are good news stories as vitually little capacity change but year on year increases. Same with CPH, AMS, FCO, VCE, WAT & STR. Dublin Istanbul and Barcelona saw more frequencies than 2012 and this needs to be taken into account.
Brussels is up and down like a ................... and as Nigel has stated the general opinion is that it is profitable due to the late business fares sold.
Overall a mixed bag (when long-haul is stripped out) but with an excellent overal figure although some might say masks the real picture.
I will be posting the full load factors in the next week or so.
Pete
There are some valid explanations such as Munich, which had Monarch operating last October amounting to 18 sectors, which probably means LH carried more passenger in October 13 than they did in October 12.
Hamburg was double daily last October as was Hanover, alas Hamburg was still miserable at 45 pax per flight (barely 50% load factor) whereas flybe managed 63 pax per flight at 77% and really should be making money on that although nothing is ceratin with them at the moment.
Berlin I believe is suffering from three effects -
1) timings which only suit inbound German pax (hopefully good yields though)
2) a reduction in seats as the weekend services were on the CR9
3) the third one I am less confident about and that the initial interest of a new a route has gone. I was one who booked within days on it going on sale and I know loads of people who also used it in the first six months but it is probably a destination that needs time to build in respect of business pax?
Now DUS & FRA are good news stories as vitually little capacity change but year on year increases. Same with CPH, AMS, FCO, VCE, WAT & STR. Dublin Istanbul and Barcelona saw more frequencies than 2012 and this needs to be taken into account.
Brussels is up and down like a ................... and as Nigel has stated the general opinion is that it is profitable due to the late business fares sold.
Overall a mixed bag (when long-haul is stripped out) but with an excellent overal figure although some might say masks the real picture.
I will be posting the full load factors in the next week or so.
Pete
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Nigel & Olten Pete
Thank you for your criticisms.
I welcome any qualification to any comment I post on PPR...
Its those steady year on year increases that really do indicate that the utility of the Airport is increasing for its client base.
Those services that burst upon the scene as a commercial success are rare - Turkish Airlines is clearly an exception. A very modest start then as better informed than I have said: a re launch with reduced fares (at times) and for a number of reasons - onward connections? - a success apparently.
CAT III
[Edit: Historians will probably have access to detailed route yield figs sometimes in the far future; the lucky ones assuming somebody comes up with an equivalent of the 30 Year rule for private businesses not the P & L + B/S pubic financials.]
I welcome any qualification to any comment I post on PPR...
Its those steady year on year increases that really do indicate that the utility of the Airport is increasing for its client base.
Those services that burst upon the scene as a commercial success are rare - Turkish Airlines is clearly an exception. A very modest start then as better informed than I have said: a re launch with reduced fares (at times) and for a number of reasons - onward connections? - a success apparently.
CAT III
[Edit: Historians will probably have access to detailed route yield figs sometimes in the far future; the lucky ones assuming somebody comes up with an equivalent of the 30 Year rule for private businesses not the P & L + B/S pubic financials.]
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Berlin
My in-laws used the first Germanwings' outbound flight to Berlin since they took over. Was full 'up-front', i.e those passengers that had paid for luggage and a snack but empty behind those seats.
I'm using them over the Xmas period and have paid the extra for the luggage and snack and works out the same as Lufthansa's prices before
I'm using them over the Xmas period and have paid the extra for the luggage and snack and works out the same as Lufthansa's prices before
OltonPete
The problem with Berlin is that it still really isn't a major German business destination. Try as the German government does to encourage business towards Berlin, the main focus remains the Ruhr, Frankfurt/Main, Munich and Stuttgart.
As you drive east, the Autobahns improve, and the volume of traffic notably decreases. Infrastructure in place, business still to arrive!
Berlin I believe is suffering from three effects -
1) timings which only suit inbound German pax (hopefully good yields though)
2) a reduction in seats as the weekend services were on the CR9
3) the third one I am less confident about and that the initial interest of a new a route has gone. I was one who booked within days on it going on sale and I know loads of people who also used it in the first six months but it is probably a destination that needs time to build in respect of business pax?
1) timings which only suit inbound German pax (hopefully good yields though)
2) a reduction in seats as the weekend services were on the CR9
3) the third one I am less confident about and that the initial interest of a new a route has gone. I was one who booked within days on it going on sale and I know loads of people who also used it in the first six months but it is probably a destination that needs time to build in respect of business pax?
As you drive east, the Autobahns improve, and the volume of traffic notably decreases. Infrastructure in place, business still to arrive!
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October International route analysis
As you can see the net monthly increase actually masks some quite worrying figures on a few routes.
Remedies have been put in place by BMIR but unfortunately at the extreme end of the scale with Billund and Toulouse ending soon and who can blame them.
SAS Stockholm still indicates that they are not filling their flights but the flybe flights are not too bad.
The routes where there haven't been extreme frequency increases/decreases therefore like for like on 2012, are FRA (3 more flights in 2013), DUS (8 fewer flights in 2013), BRU (4 fewer flights in 2013), CPH (2 more flights in 2013), CDG (6 fewer in 2013), STR (2 more in 2013), ORK (4 fewer in 2013), SNN (same), WAT (3 few in 2013) and Rome (4 more flights in 2013).
Islamabad at 67% is low but considering the capacity increase it is promising. Air India continues at mid seventies and EK safely back in the 80's.
Monthly figures are from the provisional CAA stats, average pax per flight is based on rotations reported on SBS sites and libhomeradar with load factor estimated using airline seat maps.
Destination followed by number of pax, average per flight, load factor and finally 2012 figures
Route..............PAX.....Avg per flight....Load Factor... 2012 figure
BRUSSELS........9589 .........41................50%............. 10029
TORONTO..........943.... ........236...............98%................1479
DUBROVNIK.......2703............123...............75%....... .........2529
SPLIT ...............554..............69................40%....... ............0
LARNACA..........7143............179...............90%...... ..........6992
PAPHOS............4152...........160................79%..... ..........4074
BILLUND............. 754.............16................33%....................0
COPENHAGEN.....7177.............76................73%....... ........6943
SHARM..............4966...........177................83%.... ...........1085
LYON.................2797............51................58%.. .................0
MONTPELLIER......1731..........108.................57%...... .........998
NICE..................2581............99................55%. ..............2724
PARIS (CDG)......30758............92................78%........... ..31382
PERPIGNAN.........1403............78.................41%.... ...............0
TOULOUSE...........690............16.................33%.... ...............0
BERLIN (TXL).......4670...........78.................61%........... ...5618
DUSSELDORF......17599...........52.................60%...... ......16763
FRANKFURT........24744.........102.................69%...... ......22860
HAMBURG............2435...........47.................53%.... ..........4179
HANOVER............3825...........62.................77%.... ..........5663
MUNICH............14486...........85..................69%... .........15375
STUTTGART........4056...........42..................53%..... ........3241
GIBRALTAR..........3231..........115.................66%.... ..............0
HERAKLION..........2809.........156..................80%.... .........2434
BUDAPEST................0................................... ...............2975
AMRITSAR...........7050..........196.................76%.... ..............0
CORK..................6268...........57.................79%. .............6547
DUBLIN..............49799..........110.................72%.. ..........44952
KNOCK................1966...........38..................62%. ............2931
SHANNON............2670...........45..................78%... ..........2973
WATERFORD........1779............52.................67%..... .........1357
BERGAMO............3443..........123.................65%.... ...............0
MILAN (MXP)........4004...........65.................59%.......... ....4756
ROME (FCO).........8612..........139.................80%......... ....7524
TRIESTE.............1717............95..................50%. ...........1790
VENICE...............4829..........134..................77%. ............4570
KAUNAS..............2905..........161..................85%.. ...........2894
MALTA................2725..........170.................90%.. ...........3275
AMSTERDAM....... 39060...........84.................76%............37606
ISLAMABAD..........9280..........232.................67%.... ..........6601
BYDGOSZCZ.........4700..........168.................89%..... .........4435
GDANSK...............2882..........160.................85%.. ............2949
KATOWICE...........4045...........156.................82%... ..........4467
KRAKOW..............2860...........159.................84%.. ................0
RZESZOW............3017...........168.................89%... ..........3059
FARO.................17385...........164.................84% ...........18848
FUNCHAL..............2231..........139.................80%.. .............826
BRATISLAVA.........4686 ..........167..................89%.............4122
ALICANTE...........25011..........181..................76%.. ..........25361
ALMERIA..............2957 ...........64...................77%.............3159
BARCELONA.........10192..........134..................71%... ..........3422
GIRONA................2099..........117..................62% .............5761
IBIZA...................4128..........142 .................73%.............3834
MAHON................3621..........151..................76%. ............4397
MALAGA.............25404..........174..................88%.. ..........26490
MURCIA...............5125..........142..................75%. .............5964
PALMA...............18356..........153..................80%. ...........18603
REUS...................3139..........121..................64 %.............4052
ARRECIFE............11099..........182..................95%. ..........11648
FUERTEVENTURA....6455..........190..................94%..... ........6936
LAS PALMAS.........7637..........174..................93%....... .......7660
TENERIFE............15991..........173..................89%. ...........16242
GOTEBORG............1321...........24...................50%. .................0
STOCKHOLM (ARN).2501...........57...................45%............... 422
ZURICH................8199...........72...................72 %............11679
BODRUM...............2450..........136..................78%. .............2095
DALAMAN.............9413..........149..................77%.. ............8226
ISTANBUL...........10358..........118..................76%.. ............8686
ASHKHABAD ..........3877..........114..................60%............ ..4751
DUBAI................43000..........347...................83 %............39006
NEW YORK (EWR)..8073..........155....................92%............. 7148
Pete
Remedies have been put in place by BMIR but unfortunately at the extreme end of the scale with Billund and Toulouse ending soon and who can blame them.
SAS Stockholm still indicates that they are not filling their flights but the flybe flights are not too bad.
The routes where there haven't been extreme frequency increases/decreases therefore like for like on 2012, are FRA (3 more flights in 2013), DUS (8 fewer flights in 2013), BRU (4 fewer flights in 2013), CPH (2 more flights in 2013), CDG (6 fewer in 2013), STR (2 more in 2013), ORK (4 fewer in 2013), SNN (same), WAT (3 few in 2013) and Rome (4 more flights in 2013).
Islamabad at 67% is low but considering the capacity increase it is promising. Air India continues at mid seventies and EK safely back in the 80's.
Monthly figures are from the provisional CAA stats, average pax per flight is based on rotations reported on SBS sites and libhomeradar with load factor estimated using airline seat maps.
Destination followed by number of pax, average per flight, load factor and finally 2012 figures
Route..............PAX.....Avg per flight....Load Factor... 2012 figure
BRUSSELS........9589 .........41................50%............. 10029
TORONTO..........943.... ........236...............98%................1479
DUBROVNIK.......2703............123...............75%....... .........2529
SPLIT ...............554..............69................40%....... ............0
LARNACA..........7143............179...............90%...... ..........6992
PAPHOS............4152...........160................79%..... ..........4074
BILLUND............. 754.............16................33%....................0
COPENHAGEN.....7177.............76................73%....... ........6943
SHARM..............4966...........177................83%.... ...........1085
LYON.................2797............51................58%.. .................0
MONTPELLIER......1731..........108.................57%...... .........998
NICE..................2581............99................55%. ..............2724
PARIS (CDG)......30758............92................78%........... ..31382
PERPIGNAN.........1403............78.................41%.... ...............0
TOULOUSE...........690............16.................33%.... ...............0
BERLIN (TXL).......4670...........78.................61%........... ...5618
DUSSELDORF......17599...........52.................60%...... ......16763
FRANKFURT........24744.........102.................69%...... ......22860
HAMBURG............2435...........47.................53%.... ..........4179
HANOVER............3825...........62.................77%.... ..........5663
MUNICH............14486...........85..................69%... .........15375
STUTTGART........4056...........42..................53%..... ........3241
GIBRALTAR..........3231..........115.................66%.... ..............0
HERAKLION..........2809.........156..................80%.... .........2434
BUDAPEST................0................................... ...............2975
AMRITSAR...........7050..........196.................76%.... ..............0
CORK..................6268...........57.................79%. .............6547
DUBLIN..............49799..........110.................72%.. ..........44952
KNOCK................1966...........38..................62%. ............2931
SHANNON............2670...........45..................78%... ..........2973
WATERFORD........1779............52.................67%..... .........1357
BERGAMO............3443..........123.................65%.... ...............0
MILAN (MXP)........4004...........65.................59%.......... ....4756
ROME (FCO).........8612..........139.................80%......... ....7524
TRIESTE.............1717............95..................50%. ...........1790
VENICE...............4829..........134..................77%. ............4570
KAUNAS..............2905..........161..................85%.. ...........2894
MALTA................2725..........170.................90%.. ...........3275
AMSTERDAM....... 39060...........84.................76%............37606
ISLAMABAD..........9280..........232.................67%.... ..........6601
BYDGOSZCZ.........4700..........168.................89%..... .........4435
GDANSK...............2882..........160.................85%.. ............2949
KATOWICE...........4045...........156.................82%... ..........4467
KRAKOW..............2860...........159.................84%.. ................0
RZESZOW............3017...........168.................89%... ..........3059
FARO.................17385...........164.................84% ...........18848
FUNCHAL..............2231..........139.................80%.. .............826
BRATISLAVA.........4686 ..........167..................89%.............4122
ALICANTE...........25011..........181..................76%.. ..........25361
ALMERIA..............2957 ...........64...................77%.............3159
BARCELONA.........10192..........134..................71%... ..........3422
GIRONA................2099..........117..................62% .............5761
IBIZA...................4128..........142 .................73%.............3834
MAHON................3621..........151..................76%. ............4397
MALAGA.............25404..........174..................88%.. ..........26490
MURCIA...............5125..........142..................75%. .............5964
PALMA...............18356..........153..................80%. ...........18603
REUS...................3139..........121..................64 %.............4052
ARRECIFE............11099..........182..................95%. ..........11648
FUERTEVENTURA....6455..........190..................94%..... ........6936
LAS PALMAS.........7637..........174..................93%....... .......7660
TENERIFE............15991..........173..................89%. ...........16242
GOTEBORG............1321...........24...................50%. .................0
STOCKHOLM (ARN).2501...........57...................45%............... 422
ZURICH................8199...........72...................72 %............11679
BODRUM...............2450..........136..................78%. .............2095
DALAMAN.............9413..........149..................77%.. ............8226
ISTANBUL...........10358..........118..................76%.. ............8686
ASHKHABAD ..........3877..........114..................60%............ ..4751
DUBAI................43000..........347...................83 %............39006
NEW YORK (EWR)..8073..........155....................92%............. 7148
Pete
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New route??? and aircraft coming in to die!!!
I have heard on the grapevine that Russian airline Orenair has been granted permission to serve UK to Ekaterinburg from London and Birmingham both weekly.They have also been granted permission to operate 3 x weekly to Amritsar.Flights operated with B772 initially.
Interesting but if they are aiming at the UK to Amritsar market then certainly BHX flights in particular may not operate for obvious reasons.Also it wouldn't be the first time an airline has a licence to operate a certain route but not actually use it.We await development on this one with interest.
One other thing BHX may yet get a QTR flight.An A300F is due into Bruntingthorpe today around lunchtime.With the weather as it is the aircraft may well divert into BHX until it improves.
For anyone wondering it is A7-ABX which is coming to Bruntingthorpe to be scrapped,thus making it the 2nd A300 to pass through BHX for this reason.
I find that quite sad
Interesting but if they are aiming at the UK to Amritsar market then certainly BHX flights in particular may not operate for obvious reasons.Also it wouldn't be the first time an airline has a licence to operate a certain route but not actually use it.We await development on this one with interest.
One other thing BHX may yet get a QTR flight.An A300F is due into Bruntingthorpe today around lunchtime.With the weather as it is the aircraft may well divert into BHX until it improves.
For anyone wondering it is A7-ABX which is coming to Bruntingthorpe to be scrapped,thus making it the 2nd A300 to pass through BHX for this reason.
I find that quite sad
Join Date: Jan 2007
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BHX-Bod,
Why would Orenair want to fly to BHX from such a place ? Can they connect from their to somewhere in the mid east, Asia where there might be a market for it ?
BHX was given rights to fly to Russia at least 7 years ago and no one was interested, not even a Moscow.
Nigel
Why would Orenair want to fly to BHX from such a place ? Can they connect from their to somewhere in the mid east, Asia where there might be a market for it ?
BHX was given rights to fly to Russia at least 7 years ago and no one was interested, not even a Moscow.
Nigel