MANCHESTER - 9
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ALL
Is there anybody on here with a firm grasp of airport/airline route operations ?
Given their pre disposition to sensible discussion Skippy/ Suzeman/ LAX come to mind.
I'm curious if you were head of Marketing how would you go about maximising publicisity for the new SAUDIA service out of Manchester.
In the teeth of better connections / frequency / and even aircraft type if we include A380 and with competition fierce re MEBs, how would an airline with much narrower USPs than the opposition best go about publicising such a route ?
In terms of Press Release there must be considerable opportunities to mine ?
Regional Chambers Of Commerce in both Countries
Expat Community
Trade Forums
Religious Forums (Pilgrim visits to Mecca MUST surely provide opportunities?
Freight Agents
Major exporters to the target destination eg BAe
Travel Agencies
MAG website
Airline Route Portals
etc
Where might those tasked with making the route more widely known target resources to maximise publicity and in what format ?
Also should MAG leave this entirely to the airline as has been mentioned in some quarters or simply leave them, the airline to sink or swim ?
Ps Skippy, I will fall on my sword re that BA747 !
Is there anybody on here with a firm grasp of airport/airline route operations ?
Given their pre disposition to sensible discussion Skippy/ Suzeman/ LAX come to mind.
I'm curious if you were head of Marketing how would you go about maximising publicisity for the new SAUDIA service out of Manchester.
In the teeth of better connections / frequency / and even aircraft type if we include A380 and with competition fierce re MEBs, how would an airline with much narrower USPs than the opposition best go about publicising such a route ?
In terms of Press Release there must be considerable opportunities to mine ?
Regional Chambers Of Commerce in both Countries
Expat Community
Trade Forums
Religious Forums (Pilgrim visits to Mecca MUST surely provide opportunities?
Freight Agents
Major exporters to the target destination eg BAe
Travel Agencies
MAG website
Airline Route Portals
etc
Where might those tasked with making the route more widely known target resources to maximise publicity and in what format ?
Also should MAG leave this entirely to the airline as has been mentioned in some quarters or simply leave them, the airline to sink or swim ?
Ps Skippy, I will fall on my sword re that BA747 !
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Route development/marketing
Bagso, I have heard that MAG has separate marketing teams responsible for low-cost airlines and full-service carriers. The head of the LCC team is regarded as very competent. The head of the full-service team is, I understand, not so highly regarded. I am being diplomatic here, with due respect to the fact that it is the season of goodwill.
So Bagso, I am afraid that you do indeed have a point.
So Bagso, I am afraid that you do indeed have a point.
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Whilst advertising never hurts an airline, and most are in need of at least a press release, I doubt Saudia will be desperate to get the message out on al levels.
Tickets for them are usually sold through independent travel agents (like those you find on the curry mile), and potential 'business' seats may have already been informed via emails. Also the main driver for this route is cargo, and as long as that keeps coming then the route should be reasonably safe.
Any extra exposure may well be just bonus material to them, but I don't expect much advertising of the Jeddah route.
Tickets for them are usually sold through independent travel agents (like those you find on the curry mile), and potential 'business' seats may have already been informed via emails. Also the main driver for this route is cargo, and as long as that keeps coming then the route should be reasonably safe.
Any extra exposure may well be just bonus material to them, but I don't expect much advertising of the Jeddah route.
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Turkish MAN-Dalaman
rutankrd,
There are some resorts e.g. Kalkan, Turunc Bay, Sulimeye etc. in the Dalaman catchment area that attract some pretty high end tourists. Exclusive Escapes used to offer a Business Class option to Dalaman on a chartered BMI airbus from Manchester. This option ceased when BMI stopped operating, however when I used the service Business Class was full. In fact they still apologise for not offering the Business Class service from MAN unlike STN due to aircraft availability. Also it may be some time since you visited Dalaman airport but frommemeory the new terminal was pretty state of the art. They also have a dedicated VIP terminal for Business Class passengers. From experience I think that Turkish Airlines would have little difficulty filling a flight including with premium pax.
Hope this helps , DomyDom
There are some resorts e.g. Kalkan, Turunc Bay, Sulimeye etc. in the Dalaman catchment area that attract some pretty high end tourists. Exclusive Escapes used to offer a Business Class option to Dalaman on a chartered BMI airbus from Manchester. This option ceased when BMI stopped operating, however when I used the service Business Class was full. In fact they still apologise for not offering the Business Class service from MAN unlike STN due to aircraft availability. Also it may be some time since you visited Dalaman airport but frommemeory the new terminal was pretty state of the art. They also have a dedicated VIP terminal for Business Class passengers. From experience I think that Turkish Airlines would have little difficulty filling a flight including with premium pax.
Hope this helps , DomyDom
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LAX is quite right that seats will be sold mostly to the ethnic markets via independent agents. PIA once scheduled an extra 747 into MAN at 48 hours notice and it was full when it went out! That's how it works.
Sure there will have been other contacts too using some of the channels you mentioned.
Sure there will have been other contacts too using some of the channels you mentioned.
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SV put out releases some months before their Toronto and Madrid services commenced. It's just odd that you can see their cargo manager quoted in an interview about "Manchester will start in April" when there's no information on their website / social media pages... and with us being a secondary market and "handicapped" by the "London departures only" mentality for such services, might it not be prudent to stick a line or two acknowledging the existence of these services? How many seats have actually been sold so far or are they really more interested in getting the cargo hold full and any passengers carried will be considered a bonus?
Last edited by Ringwayman; 29th Dec 2013 at 20:03.
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Perish the thought that somebody ....please anybody (?), at a certain airport spots the start date and says to hell with it and suggests deluging the media with a Press Release or 2 in January !
Whilst YES it is down to the airline, "any port in a storm" comes to mind !
But given your last missive maybe best we should not get our hopes up Lord Basil !
Ps A Preemptive strike of the gong before the New Years Queens honours are released your Lordship!
Actually on a theme of awards maybe there should be one for "Supreme Inactivity in the face of Overwhelming Common Sense".
Whilst YES it is down to the airline, "any port in a storm" comes to mind !
But given your last missive maybe best we should not get our hopes up Lord Basil !
Ps A Preemptive strike of the gong before the New Years Queens honours are released your Lordship!
Actually on a theme of awards maybe there should be one for "Supreme Inactivity in the face of Overwhelming Common Sense".
Last edited by Bagso; 29th Dec 2013 at 20:07.
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........the management may be forgiven for wondering if they might have spent a little more time and effort tub thumping the case for the ‘home’ airport at Manchester, which already has two runways, oodles of spare capacity and the sort of traffic mix that many other airport operators can only dream of !
.............the Commission failed to honour its own remit of taking a “UK-wide perspective,” and “focusing disproportionately on the southeast, further entrenching the dominance of the southeast economy to the detriment of the growth of the rest of the UK.
Perish the thought !
The Davies Commission?s Interim Report on UK airports: the big loser remains UK competitiveness | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
.............the Commission failed to honour its own remit of taking a “UK-wide perspective,” and “focusing disproportionately on the southeast, further entrenching the dominance of the southeast economy to the detriment of the growth of the rest of the UK.
Perish the thought !
The Davies Commission?s Interim Report on UK airports: the big loser remains UK competitiveness | CAPA - Centre for Aviation
Last edited by Bagso; 31st Dec 2013 at 09:08.
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Manchester's PR section is a little bit strange. A tale of 2 routes.
Ryanair to Bolgna and Saudia to Jeddah. Both start April 1st.
Ryanair to Bologna has had a few PR releases, and appears in the 'new routes' section of the MAN website. It does not appear in the timetable yet.
Saudia to Jeddah, no PR release as such yet, does not appear in the 'new routes' section but does appear in the timetable section.
Any chance someone at MAN could join all the dots together to make 2 coherent sets of information?
Ryanair to Bolgna and Saudia to Jeddah. Both start April 1st.
Ryanair to Bologna has had a few PR releases, and appears in the 'new routes' section of the MAN website. It does not appear in the timetable yet.
Saudia to Jeddah, no PR release as such yet, does not appear in the 'new routes' section but does appear in the timetable section.
Any chance someone at MAN could join all the dots together to make 2 coherent sets of information?
AIR CANADA ROUGE
I wonder if anyone has been able to book on Air Canada Rouge short season flight?
I've tried. Booking direct with AC website, shows flights available-but rejects payment.
Going via agents like expedia, ebookers, STA etc only route me via LHR, CDG or BRU & when specifically asked for flights from MAN with AC, shows as no flights available - which of course is incorrect.
I've tried. Booking direct with AC website, shows flights available-but rejects payment.
Going via agents like expedia, ebookers, STA etc only route me via LHR, CDG or BRU & when specifically asked for flights from MAN with AC, shows as no flights available - which of course is incorrect.
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Try the Rouge portal.
Here
Air Canada Rouge
Or you know what pick up that thing called phone and speak to a human !
Air Canada Reservations
Tel.: 0871 220 1111 (Calls cost 10p per minute plus network extras)
Fax: +44 208 750 8495
Mon. - Fri.: 08:00 - 18:00
Sat.: 08:00 - 16:00
Sun.: 07:00 - 15:00
These organic blobs tend/try to be helpful and have access to a variety of fares I do believe.
They can even take a credit/debit card number and e-mailing address
Here
Air Canada Rouge
Or you know what pick up that thing called phone and speak to a human !
Air Canada Reservations
Tel.: 0871 220 1111 (Calls cost 10p per minute plus network extras)
Fax: +44 208 750 8495
Mon. - Fri.: 08:00 - 18:00
Sat.: 08:00 - 16:00
Sun.: 07:00 - 15:00
These organic blobs tend/try to be helpful and have access to a variety of fares I do believe.
They can even take a credit/debit card number and e-mailing address
Thanks for your advice, guess what, Ive already tried your approach thanks.
I've tried the human approach - routed to a call centre, On a noisy dreadful line, I would guess in India. Who offered to book for me- but with fares £400 more than the on line fare.
I've tried the human approach - routed to a call centre, On a noisy dreadful line, I would guess in India. Who offered to book for me- but with fares £400 more than the on line fare.
Last edited by Mr A Tis; 2nd Jan 2014 at 22:35.
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Try the Rouge portal.
Here
Air Canada Rouge
Here
Air Canada Rouge
I've tried. Booking direct with AC website, shows flights available-but rejects payment.
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........the management may be forgiven for wondering if they might have spent a little more time and effort tub thumping the case for the ‘home’ airport at Manchester, which already has two runways, oodles of spare capacity and the sort of traffic mix that many other airport operators can only dream of !
.............the Commission failed to honour its own remit of taking a “UK-wide perspective,” and “focusing disproportionately on the southeast, further entrenching the dominance of the southeast economy to the detriment of the growth of the rest of the UK.
.............the Commission failed to honour its own remit of taking a “UK-wide perspective,” and “focusing disproportionately on the southeast, further entrenching the dominance of the southeast economy to the detriment of the growth of the rest of the UK.
Bear in mind that Ringway, unlike Heathrow, has already doubled its rwy capacity.
The only constraints at Ringway (apart from one or two restrictive bi-laterals) is a belief that carriers can't make sufficient money there. Persuading them otherwise is not the job of the Commission.
The Commission has, rightly, concentrated on the part of the UK that has severe rwy capacity problems. All it needs to do now is recommend 2 more rwys at Heathrow and its "job done".
I wonder if anyone has been able to book on Air Canada Rouge short season flight?
I've tried. Booking direct with AC website, shows flights available-but rejects payment.
Going via agents like expedia, ebookers, STA etc only route me via LHR, CDG or BRU & when specifically asked for flights from MAN with AC, shows as no flights available - which of course is incorrect.
I've tried. Booking direct with AC website, shows flights available-but rejects payment.
Going via agents like expedia, ebookers, STA etc only route me via LHR, CDG or BRU & when specifically asked for flights from MAN with AC, shows as no flights available - which of course is incorrect.
Thanks for your advice, guess what, Ive already tried your approach thanks.
I've tried the human approach - routed to a call centre, On a noisy dreadful line, I would guess in India. Who offered to book for me- but with fares £400 more than the on line fare. In the end I have given up & will not be booking on Rouge. Its 100% hopeless.
I've tried the human approach - routed to a call centre, On a noisy dreadful line, I would guess in India. Who offered to book for me- but with fares £400 more than the on line fare. In the end I have given up & will not be booking on Rouge. Its 100% hopeless.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 1st Jan 2014 at 15:52.
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FairDealFrank
Those quotes I highlighted are from "within" the CAPA analysis, quite a well respected organisation, one which hosted IAG CEO last month !
I think the comments they are making is why call it a UK wide review if its all about same London and the same old vested interests running the show ?
As for using a "specialist travel agency" ?
Well lets listen in to the mindset of what Mr and Mrs Nicebutdim, might do ?
Having feasted on the last of the Turkey thoughts turn to holidays !
A) Hey nothing on TV, shall we look at holidays ?
B) Yes why not, I fancy Canada, how about Toronto, have a look on the net, we live near Manchester, its a big airport so maybe there are some flights from there, I know you can fly to London and even Spain and some places in Europe.
A) look i'll put in Manchester - Toronto low cost,
wow so many flight options, Ryanair must be here somewhere, ah hang on look you can fly with Air France, they are good, I think, and that Lufthansa
A)are they German ?
B).....oh look even better, British Airways, now they fly all over the World from Manchester.
A) that's odd says it's 1 stop Via FRA, wonder what that means and this one says Via BRU
B) flight times are about 14 hours dear, is that OK?
A) hmmm not sure, I know lets pop into that nice travel agency on the high street tomorrow and compare prices.
Next day
A) Hello we want to book a low cost flight to Toronto and fly from Manchester
B) ah sorry no flights from there, but you can fly from London ?
A) oh do we
B) yes i'm afraid so, been doing this for 25 years, now let me have a look for you........
Fiction...maybe but a darn site nearer the truth !
Those quotes I highlighted are from "within" the CAPA analysis, quite a well respected organisation, one which hosted IAG CEO last month !
I think the comments they are making is why call it a UK wide review if its all about same London and the same old vested interests running the show ?
As for using a "specialist travel agency" ?
Well lets listen in to the mindset of what Mr and Mrs Nicebutdim, might do ?
Having feasted on the last of the Turkey thoughts turn to holidays !
A) Hey nothing on TV, shall we look at holidays ?
B) Yes why not, I fancy Canada, how about Toronto, have a look on the net, we live near Manchester, its a big airport so maybe there are some flights from there, I know you can fly to London and even Spain and some places in Europe.
A) look i'll put in Manchester - Toronto low cost,
wow so many flight options, Ryanair must be here somewhere, ah hang on look you can fly with Air France, they are good, I think, and that Lufthansa
A)are they German ?
B).....oh look even better, British Airways, now they fly all over the World from Manchester.
A) that's odd says it's 1 stop Via FRA, wonder what that means and this one says Via BRU
B) flight times are about 14 hours dear, is that OK?
A) hmmm not sure, I know lets pop into that nice travel agency on the high street tomorrow and compare prices.
Next day
A) Hello we want to book a low cost flight to Toronto and fly from Manchester
B) ah sorry no flights from there, but you can fly from London ?
A) oh do we
B) yes i'm afraid so, been doing this for 25 years, now let me have a look for you........
Fiction...maybe but a darn site nearer the truth !
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has already doubled its rwy capacity.
btw the Air Canada Rouge loco is, pretty far from cheap!!!
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Parallel taxiway only needed if you land on 23L or takeoff 05R otherwise not
needed, yes runways are close but when sequenced by atc is quite high useage, problems occur when there is lowviz but that happens everywhere
Ian
needed, yes runways are close but when sequenced by atc is quite high useage, problems occur when there is lowviz but that happens everywhere
Ian
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Runway system capacity
MAN's close parallel runways give you in effect 1.5 runways, not twice the single runway capacity. This is due the need to facilitate crossing of 05L/23R, and the SIDs which mostly follow the same initial routing off 23L. It certainly can't be compared to LHR's wider-spaced runways which can achieve more or less double the single-runway throughput. MAN is also constrained by the northside taxiways which are still set out around the old three-runway WW2 layout.
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You can also add to that the second runway can't be used parts of the day due to a noise agreement the neighbor community. It doesn't stop with that, there is also the single line operation in to and out from Terminal 2 and the back side of Terminal 1 Pier C. This isn't a large problem during the winter season, but come summer with the double amount of passengers being pressed through the terminals then MAN got a problem. FlightStats monthly on time reports this summer was really bad reading for MAN, and only some Moscow airports and Istanbul showed poorer performance than MAN.
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Yes, but even if you only regard it as half a runway it has substantially increased MAN's capacity at an affordable cost.
I can't help thinking that LGW and STN should have focused on similarly incremental development, rather than persisting with multi-billion pound schemes that their airline customers will never be prepared to pay for.
I can't help thinking that LGW and STN should have focused on similarly incremental development, rather than persisting with multi-billion pound schemes that their airline customers will never be prepared to pay for.