BELFAST CITY AIRPORT (BHD)
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No. There may be an issue with inbound flow rates,but that would be dependent on the capacity BHD has whilst they are using procedural control. Those rates would be set by BHD and Flow control. If NATS at BFS are doing radar for them then there should be no difference in normal flow rates.
I don't know if NATS has taken over the provision of radar services yet. I expect they haven't as BHD seems to be operating a fully procedural system. I doubt that NATS is using the BHD radar. The BFS radar has a reasonable level of coverage at about 10/12 miles from touchdown on 04 but that degrades as the aircraft descend below the level of Divis and Black Mountain. The ideal solution is a radar feed from BHD into BFS.
That may be a proposal which is under consideration.
I don't know if NATS has taken over the provision of radar services yet. I expect they haven't as BHD seems to be operating a fully procedural system. I doubt that NATS is using the BHD radar. The BFS radar has a reasonable level of coverage at about 10/12 miles from touchdown on 04 but that degrades as the aircraft descend below the level of Divis and Black Mountain. The ideal solution is a radar feed from BHD into BFS.
That may be a proposal which is under consideration.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
West Brit ....what would that achieve? Sometimes bits go pop....and there isn't necessarily a quick fix.
Things like ( and I have no idea IF this has ANYTHING to do with their problems) turning gear failures or major magnetron or klystron failures can cause headaches until a new bit can be sourced.
Things like ( and I have no idea IF this has ANYTHING to do with their problems) turning gear failures or major magnetron or klystron failures can cause headaches until a new bit can be sourced.
Last edited by eastern wiseguy; 16th Apr 2016 at 21:56. Reason: Spelling
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
16 go arounds? In thirty minutes? Or do you mean 4 go arounds? I wonder which it is? What was the weather? What relevance does this have to the lack of radar?(unless they WERE weather related)
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: NI
Posts: 1,033
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re: NATS at City, an interesting aspect of the tender was:
which would suggest that consolidation of operation at International's site would be difficult.
Belfast City Airport (BCA) is seeking a provider of Air Traffic Control (ATC) services. The successful bidder will utilise staff that are currently directly employed by BCA in this service provision. It is anticipated that TUPE (being the Transfer of Undertakings (Protection of Employment) Regualtions) will apply.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Belfast
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I meant 16....and go around or holding patterns...if I was a customer on any of those planes I'd be bloody raging, flying round in circles...the Liverpool in bound was in the air for an hour....
Waldo1
Would it be correct to assume you have anger issues, aircraft performing well established procedures would have you "raging".
The alternative to holding is diversion, you really would be mad then.
Would it be correct to assume you have anger issues, aircraft performing well established procedures would have you "raging".
The alternative to holding is diversion, you really would be mad then.
Join Date: May 2011
Location: antrim
Age: 63
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Waldo, seriously!? I think you should maybe give air travel a miss and wait for the next Outrage Bus instead, last time I flew to Heathrow I went merrily round in circles several times before the crew made an approach. Big deal.
From what I hear the radar is knackered and there are no spare bits anywhere, my guess is there will be lots of questions from the big chiefs asking how on earth did this happen!
From what I hear the radar is knackered and there are no spare bits anywhere, my guess is there will be lots of questions from the big chiefs asking how on earth did this happen!
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: UK
Posts: 232
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'Circling due to problems with Radar'
There are a lot of people who are nervous fliers. There are folk who would see this as 'no big deal'. To a nervous flier this would be an anxious experience. The public should be informed so as to make people wary of what is going on.
There are a lot of people who are nervous fliers. There are folk who would see this as 'no big deal'. To a nervous flier this would be an anxious experience. The public should be informed so as to make people wary of what is going on.
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Belfast
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ha ha not at all, I fly with whatever airline suits my requirements as a paying passenger....some folk need reminded that the airlines and airports exist to satisfy the needs of the paying traveller, not the other way round...so yes I would be raging if I was going round in circles when there is no need. If the equipment is life expired and maintenance and spares are no longer available then it should have been replaced before it failed...which is what u do with any asset that you maintain...the extra costs involved to keep all these planes and customers doing donuts in the air is ridiculous....and I would say Heathrow is a completely different scenario than the quiet little airport in Belfast harbour
Join Date: May 2011
Location: antrim
Age: 63
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
but to have witnessed 4 aircraft perform 4 go arounds each in the space of 30 minutes is a bloody serious issue both on a safety side and a service side
BTW, the quiet little Harbour, according to CAA stats, so far this rolling year has 40666 aircraft movements as opposed to that busy 24 hour international airport over the hill showing 36954. Just saying. https://www.caa.co.uk/uploadedFiles/...Statistics.pdf
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Belfast
Posts: 117
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Quiet compared to the likes of Heathrow, that's all...I love both our airports equally 😎 safety issue cos it's broke...why do we have radar? Surely it's to keep everyone safe, is it not?
Join Date: May 2011
Location: antrim
Age: 63
Posts: 0
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think most airfields are quiet compared to Heathrow! Is radar not simply a tool to speed things up, as well as being a safety feature as a bonus. Many years ago I had reason to visit some airports way up north of Scotland when I was employed in the oil industry, I remember there was no radar in those airfields at all. I'm sure it has changed since but at the time it was a perfectly safe and normal way to get on the ground.
I see Aldergrove appear to have been doing Harbour radar over the last few days, looking at the tracks of the arrivals on Flight Radar I think a procedural approach would have been quicker in some cases! Some of the routings are interesting to put it mildly.
I see Aldergrove appear to have been doing Harbour radar over the last few days, looking at the tracks of the arrivals on Flight Radar I think a procedural approach would have been quicker in some cases! Some of the routings are interesting to put it mildly.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: USA
Age: 66
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Pan...And there was me thinking you were doing so well. .....hey ho .
Anyway WALDO. It is a relatively new radar. It MAY not have been the best piece of kit that could have been sourced (imo) but they bought it.
There are MANY procedures that may be used when radar is not available. Ever flown across the Atlantic? Not a hell of a lot of Radar available there.....is THAT a safety issue/ No...it is not.
When radar is unavailable ...things slow down. The margins of separation INCREASE dramatically. You may be a little inconvenienced...but you will most certainly be safe.
Anyway WALDO. It is a relatively new radar. It MAY not have been the best piece of kit that could have been sourced (imo) but they bought it.
There are MANY procedures that may be used when radar is not available. Ever flown across the Atlantic? Not a hell of a lot of Radar available there.....is THAT a safety issue/ No...it is not.
When radar is unavailable ...things slow down. The margins of separation INCREASE dramatically. You may be a little inconvenienced...but you will most certainly be safe.
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Northern Ireland
Posts: 464
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Waldo, you say that the airlines and airports exist only to serve the needs and wants of the paying customers.
I would suggest you are oversimplifying an extremely complex set of things that need to happen to create the illusion of simplicity to you as a traveller. Also your statement is an example of a false sense of super-entitlement that is becoming more evident all the time where people want to complain about all sorts of things they imagine they know all about and will stop at nothing to make their often nonsensical points. As Eastern and Pan tried to explain, there is nothing dangerous happening there with the extended time in the hold.
I would suggest you are oversimplifying an extremely complex set of things that need to happen to create the illusion of simplicity to you as a traveller. Also your statement is an example of a false sense of super-entitlement that is becoming more evident all the time where people want to complain about all sorts of things they imagine they know all about and will stop at nothing to make their often nonsensical points. As Eastern and Pan tried to explain, there is nothing dangerous happening there with the extended time in the hold.