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Jet2 4

Old 22nd Mar 2015, 19:51
  #2301 (permalink)  
 
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If we look at the last 15 scheduled airlines in the FLIGHT_ON_TIME punctuality list, we find JET2 at number 27, with British Airways at number 26, Easyjet at number 22 and Ryanair at number 20. Below JET2 at number 28 is Emirates and at 29 we have Qatar Airways.

Considering the competing airlines and their brand new fleets, JET2 are doing very well to maintain their position among such strong competition.
The long haul carriers you mention operate from large hubs and will often delay their own flights for connecting passengers. You need aircraft dispatch reliability figures if you wish to compare old for new, which you will be hard pressed to obtain.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 21:03
  #2302 (permalink)  
 
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Rankings

Much of the ranking info needs to be qualified

Smaller airlines such as Logan Air & bmi regional only operate a handful of flights mainly from airports that are not slot restricted.

Large airline such as BA & EK operate from airports such as LHR where delays are the norm and getting away a heavy on time with business pax that think they should board 10 sec before push is a challenge.

Like wise large loco such easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian often operate from busier airports such as LGW, STN its a very different situation from LBA, EMA, NCL, BPL or even Manchester.

This debate over new -v- old is difficult to quantify, i can only go on my personal experience of operating old 737 & near new NG's (under 5 years old) and there is simply no comparison, in the past 3 years of flying NG's only i have had two use the QRH just twice, that was a weekly occurrence flying vintage 12-18 year old CL. The CL is a fine aircraft but when they get old you get snags most are quickly sorted by powering down and up again, but you pick up delays.

It was interesting to read a shareholders view (2%) is a lot !! but any pilot with hours on new or old aircraft will tell you the newer the better, B787 aside perhaps !!

From what i've read Jet2 have caught the CAA's wrath because they (Jet2) lost a court case and should have paid up, but decided to delay pending another court case in the hope of appealing should that case be found in favour of another operator.

Inconvenience is inconvenience, no matter the purchase price, it makes not a dot of difference if i miss a connecting flight because Jet2 arrive late into AMS and i have only paid £30 or i miss it because of KLM (more likely!!) and paid £300, so unless Jet2 and other LoCo's are going to argue that the risk of being late is higher and that's reflected in the price, then they should pay up, the last 3 pages on here wouldn't be nor the negative newspaper and press coverage.

So great to hear Jet2 are doing well, just pay up please
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 21:27
  #2303 (permalink)  
 
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LNIDA

Like wise large loco such easyJet, Ryanair, Norwegian often operate from busier airports such as LGW, STN its a very different situation from LBA, EMA, NCL, BPL or even Manchester.
I would put LGW and MAN in the same category, both have in excess of 20 million passengers, both are ACL Level 3 co-ordinated airports.
Stansted is a doddle compared to Manchester, it may be single runway but its taxiway layout is much less likely to cause delays.
Manchester has a layout which was not designed, it evolved.
On a summers morning in Manchester it can be carnage.
It is a wonder it works as well as it does.

As an aside STN is also ACL level 3, despite it only having about 17 million passengers.

Last edited by Check Mags On; 22nd Mar 2015 at 22:17. Reason: To add that the point about STN.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 21:47
  #2304 (permalink)  
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 21:57
  #2305 (permalink)  
 
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I don't know where Check Mags On gets his numbers for Stansted, but it actually has 20.6 million passengers. And at the present rate of growth it will probably overtake MAN again within the next year or two (though I hate to admit it...)
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 22:17
  #2306 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BasilBush View Post
I don't know where Check Mags On gets his numbers for Stansted, but it actually has 20.6 million passengers. And at the present rate of growth it will probably overtake MAN again within the next year or two (though I hate to admit it...)
My apologies that was a typo. I meant to say 17 million. Which was 2013 figures. They haven't quite got the 20 million yet. Just missed it by a couple of thousand. Although as you say it is growing fast. But so is Manchester.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 22:29
  #2307 (permalink)  
 
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20.6 million at STN in the 12 months ending Feb 2015. And based on ACL data it will catch MAN up quickly in the summer...
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 22:32
  #2308 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by BasilBush View Post
20.6 million at STN in the 12 months ending Feb 2015. And based on ACL data it will catch MAN up quickly in the summer...
That's the thing with statistics. They get twisted. I was talking a calendar year and you were talking rolling twelve months.
19,978,766 Stansteds own figures for the calendar year 2014.
http://www.stanstedairport.com/media/1321193/stansted_traffic_statistics_december_2014.pdf
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 22:44
  #2309 (permalink)  
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Manchester will be much busier than Stansted in the summer because of all the IT traffic and also Ryanair for the 1st time in several years operated a large program from Stansted rather than parking aircraft up for the winter
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 22:59
  #2310 (permalink)  
 
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20.6 million at STN in the 12 months ending Feb 2015. And based on ACL data it will catch MAN up quickly in the summer...
Basil, I think it may have been you who posted on the Manchester thread that the latest ACL report shows only 2.5% more seats for MAN this summer after the slot hand-backs. Do you have the equivalent figure for STN?
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 06:23
  #2311 (permalink)  
 
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The top and bottom of all this is that, up until 2012, Jet2 ran a far too lean operation with absolutely no backup in the event of things going wrong. There were regular big delays, especially with the 757's as there was no slack. Just look at the OTP statistics.

However, Jet2 have sorted their act out from that point. The OTP has improved dramatically and they now do take delays VERY seriously. For an airline operating with the most vintage fleet, to be comparable to the other lo-co's and have a better on time performance record than their nearest rival Monarch - with a much newer fleet and huge in house maintenance facility is commendable. The behind the scenes effort to pull this around has been huge, and as much as some of the bitter people on here love to slate Jet2, they are a sound airline at the present time, and it must be hugely frustrating for the staff from all departments that have worked their backsides off to try help turn things around, to constantly hear the negative complaining. The business really is booming, of course there are still flaws, but compare the company to five years ago...it has matured considerably despite what some people say on here.

The problem lies with the management. Anyone that has had anything to do with PM knows exactly what I mean. He has put the two year claim rule in place internally, as he knows that the past 6 years worth of delays could financially hurt the company. Even though it's a much slicker operation now, I commend him for his passion, but in this day in age it's not a sustainable way to run an organisation. He needs to hold his hands up and pay out. It would for sure heavily impact the next annual results, but getting your name in the papers for negative things like this is going to do that anyway.

Come on PM, for once just back down and do the right thing for everyone, and for once think of the hard working people that keep the business running each day!
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 07:55
  #2312 (permalink)  
 
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Righthandrule

I think that is a fair assessment.

With regards to Monarch OTP they are much improved over the last two years, but yes they were a shambles, a company who thought having a crown on the tail made them royal, when in fact it should have been a joker for that is what they became.

PM may have passion but it's been said before " you can take the man out of freight but can you take the freight mentality out of the man"

I'm not sure how much money you save when the only other operator with an older fleet is Air Atlantique or the historic flight compared with new/newer aircraft but the level of back up that Jet2 now provide doesn't come cheap.

I do agree with other posters that a 2 year limit on claims is fair, provided that a) the passenger were made aware that they were entiteld to claim b) that their claims haven't been kicked into the long grass in the hope that by the time they get to the court stage it past two years.
c) anyone upto the 6 year limit who had submitted a claim but had it rejected by Jet2, but that under the new legal ruling would
have had a valid claim be paid out.

Perhaps the additional profit being earned on the much lower oil price but not lower ticket prices can fund the rebates

Penny wise pound foolish
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 09:25
  #2313 (permalink)  
 
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Ultimately your ticket price will increase and your family holiday will get more expensive to cover the selfish claim culture
Absolutely right - and I don't imagine those "consumer champions" in the media will be happy with that either.

Do commercial insurance companies offer policies that could at least partially cover airlines against this rather silly piece of legislation (and the UK courts interpretation of it)?
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 10:40
  #2314 (permalink)  
 
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ATNotts - if you feel this is a rather silly piece of legislation may I ask what measures you have taken to have it defeated/amended?


I repeat a post from another thread ...


What I fail to understand after reading various posts on this and other forums is that if people feel so strongly that the law is an ass why do they do little or nothing about it?

When the CAA/NEB produced their list of what were deemed to be extraordinary circumstances when compensation payment should not be paid I understand the EU received representation regarding issuing the list (not confirmed whether these representations were for or against but I believe the vast majority were against) from 22 parties with private individuals being the major contributors. Ask the airline you work for if they contacted the EU in support of this list …. I bet the answer is no.

In talking to my local MEP (who did sit on the EU Transportation Committee) he confirmed that I was the only person who had ever contacted him regarding 261/2004. How many of you (whether in agreement or not) have contacted your MP, your MEP, the UK representatives on the EU Transportation Committee, The EU itself or indeed the EU Ombudsman (who happens to be a lady!) ?

Any representation (which I can assure you is very limited) the airlines make is generally through the CAA however our NEB is, in effect, funded by the airline industry so you can understand why the EU have some difficulty with this.

There is an election coming up in the UK soon…. Some of you might vote, others not however there is no point in complaining about how the country is run if you don’t vote. Likewise there is no point in arguing with the odd poster on this or other forums if you believe that 261/2004 is flawed, you would be better spending your time taking the matter up with the people who matter.


Scratchingthesky - Jet2's own figures (basically hidden in their Year End report) indicate an additional 50p per passenger per flight. I believe an extra £4 per family per holiday is not a lot to pay for 'insurance' if your flight is delayed by over 3 hours. EU estimated figures actually are actually slightly higher than this but they refer to everyone on a delayed flight claiming.
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 12:19
  #2315 (permalink)  
 
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I wrote to my MP recently on another travel related issue and I found the whole experience to be very positive. The local MP got me the information Ineeded and in good time.

With EU261 one however, I won't be writing to anyone about it. I feel if airlines have spent millions battling this through a court of law then what can I do? I'm just one little person writing to my MP.
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 12:53
  #2316 (permalink)  
 
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mockingjay

mockingjay - you will probably find your MP not too bothered about 261 (particularly at the moment!) as it really isn't a vote winner however your MEP may be a little more interested as it stems, after all, from the EU.


The airlines (Jet2 in particular hence on this thread) have put a lot of effort into defeating UK claims via local, county, high, appeal and supreme court action however they (like many others) have put little or no effort, into tackling the law at source. Indeed if it were not for the Gibraltar EU fiasco the law would probably be made even tighter.


In 2012 my MEP knew nothing about 261 - he actually departed in the last election and I then had to 'brief' the new MEP - unfortunately whilst she has contacts on the Transportation Committee she is not on same so my route of communication is diminished.


The airlines have generally relied upon the CAA/NEB representing their wishes however as can be seen with regard to press releases over the weekend/today the CAA appear to be giving into public pressure.
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 13:57
  #2317 (permalink)  
 
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Full year 2014 Source CAA

Comparison of the largest operators.

Top 20 by number of flights operated, Arrival OTP

BRITISH AIRWAYS 74.25
EASYJET AIRLINE 78.28
RYANAIR 78.78
FLYBE 85.37
THOMSON AIRWAYS 73.87
BA CITYFLYER LTD 88.67
MONARCH AIRLINES 78.29
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS 80.21
AER LINGUS 81.33
LUFTHANSA 78.63
NORWEGIAN AIR SHUTTLE 79.02
CITY JET 87.53
JET2.COM 74.49
THOMAS COOK AIRLINES 79.83
WIZZ AIR 86.63
LOGANAIR 82.77
SAS 80.17
SWISS AIRLINES 80.69
GERMANWINGS 79.72
KLM 86.35

Top 20 by number of flights operated, Departure OTP

BRITISH AIRWAYS 77.1
EASYJET AIRLINE 78.5
RYANAIR 79.5
FLYBE 78.7
THOMSON AIRWAYS 73.9
BA CITYFLYER 88.3
MONARCH AIRLINES 71.7
VIRGIN ATLANTIC AIRWAYS 84.1
AER LINGUS 85.5
LUFTHANSA 81.5
NORWEGIAN AIR SHUTTLE 80.0
JET2.COM 82.0
CITY JET 86.7
THOMAS COOK AIRLINES 74.2
WIZZ AIR 64.4
LOGANAIR 82.5
SAS 88.8
SWISS AIRLINES 79.8
GERMANWINGS 78.9
KLM 87.2

When compared to 2013 figures, Jet2 OTP has improved by 7% on arrival and 10% on departure

Last edited by handler; 23rd Mar 2015 at 14:12.
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 14:41
  #2318 (permalink)  
 
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MANFOD

It wasn't me that posted ACL data, but like you I recall reading about it on this site somewhere. And the % increase for STN was quite a bit higher than for MAN, so the gap between the two airports will continue to close.

Maybe this discussion is better on the STN or MAN threads...

Meanwhile here is the link to ACL http://www.acl-uk.org/UserFiles/File/STN_S15_SOS.pdf

Seats up c9% on last summer
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Old 23rd Mar 2015, 16:28
  #2319 (permalink)  
 
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It wasn't me that posted ACL data, but like you I recall reading about it on this site somewhere. And the % increase for STN was quite a bit higher than for MAN, so the gap between the two airports will continue to close.

Maybe this discussion is better on the STN or MAN threads...
Thanks Basil. I realise we were a bit off topic but appreciate the link.
I'll post something on the MAN thread.
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Old 24th Mar 2015, 15:03
  #2320 (permalink)  
 
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Given that Jet2 is run by a team of professional businessmen (lets face it these days you have to a ruthless streak to compete) I am not surprised they challenged EU261 as it appears to have more (loop)holes than the proverbial Swiss Flight Safety Cheese. That said, after the number of times it has been tested in the courts, the writing is more than on the wall and for the sake of reputation it is probably time to shut up and pay up.


As for the compensation culture - some aircrew have been getting very tendentious about 261. I can only assume that they have never claimed for a mis-sold endowment or a mis-sold PPI and would never claim from the NHS if one of their family was a victim of medical negligence. 261 was set up to protect customers from rapacious companies, I have yet to hear from anyone complaining about the savings people have made on mobile calls abroad thanks to EU mandates. Thanks to 261 we now have a better service as companies have been forced to put in mitigation plans - Jet2 being a prime example.


However, I think 261 is ripe for review. It was drafted before the locost boom and its compensation levels can be ridiculous. I think the model of the Directive on ferry delays (1177) is much better (and clearer). Compensation here is based on a percentage of the ticket price (and that % rises with the length of the delay); food, accom and comms also have to be provided. On the other hand I would like to see more protection for the customer to prevent cancellations or provide reasonable compensation when flights are cancelled due to 'operational reasons' (ie they are running at a loss). Currently an airline can hold your money for over a year and then cancel the flight with 2 weeks and a day to go and you only get your money back. In one instance a Leeds based carrier cancelled my return leg with 2 weeks and 2 days to go (so a week and 2 days before the outbound) so I had to incur a number of costs to ensure the other elements of my holiday were not lost - a highly cynical move on their part. Again the market has moved on since the early noughties as many more book elements of their independently so IMHO compensation should be mandated.
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