CARDIFF - 2
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The airport has done their bit now it's down to the South Wales community to do theirs.
A slip of the tongue, or fingers, perhaps!
Phileas - I'm not quite sure I understand you're trying to say about Cardiff airport serving the south Wales community. Would it be at all possible for you to clarify or otherwise add a little more detail as to your thoughts ?
Are the ORY flights going to be under WX flight numbers or AF ?? Would through check be offered ? Anyone know ?
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The reason that ORY is chosen rather than CDG is in order to babysit Air France slots at ORY. I would expect that the route will most likely be a wet-lease (AF operating code, maybe WX marketing code). That will enable through check-in, but other than domestic French and French Caribbean/Indian Ocean destinations, AF doesn't offer anything from ORY. I would not be holding my breath for bargain CWL-ORY-NCE fares.
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Cityjet announce CWL base to distract from the news that they are being sold perhaps?
Cityjet is a 40-odd fleet airline with just 1m passengers a year and terrible aircraft utilisation. Do the maths and work out how much those 1m passengers must be paying to support the operation. I agree with an earlier post and doubt very much that the good people of Cardiff would be able to stomach the kind of airfares that Cityjet will no doubt be charging once the fanfare dies down.
Don't forget the correlation between airfares and demand. People say that capacity has been 'plugged' by getting this airline in. But they fail to realise the huge increase in fares compared to Flybe. This will reduce demand and therefore load factors, requiring smaller and smaller aircraft capacity.
This is not a long-term solution to the withdrawal of Flybe routes from CWL.
Cityjet is a 40-odd fleet airline with just 1m passengers a year and terrible aircraft utilisation. Do the maths and work out how much those 1m passengers must be paying to support the operation. I agree with an earlier post and doubt very much that the good people of Cardiff would be able to stomach the kind of airfares that Cityjet will no doubt be charging once the fanfare dies down.
Don't forget the correlation between airfares and demand. People say that capacity has been 'plugged' by getting this airline in. But they fail to realise the huge increase in fares compared to Flybe. This will reduce demand and therefore load factors, requiring smaller and smaller aircraft capacity.
This is not a long-term solution to the withdrawal of Flybe routes from CWL.
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Yes, AF-KLM selling off CityJet to Intro Aviation.
Air France-KLM to sell CityJet to Germany's Intro Aviation | Reuters
Sale of CityJet to Germany?s Intro Aviation set to close early next year - Financial Services News | Business News | The Irish Times - Sat, Dec 21, 2013
CityJet had an operating loss of 21million euros in 2012. If the CWL routes don't generate enough profit I don't expect to see them flying those routes this time next year.
Air France-KLM to sell CityJet to Germany's Intro Aviation | Reuters
Sale of CityJet to Germany?s Intro Aviation set to close early next year - Financial Services News | Business News | The Irish Times - Sat, Dec 21, 2013
CityJet had an operating loss of 21million euros in 2012. If the CWL routes don't generate enough profit I don't expect to see them flying those routes this time next year.
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The EDI & GLA routes will be quite popular, especially as BMI baby used to have good loads when they operated these......let's hope the prices be as good with City Jet.
ORY is a new destination......may not be CDG for connections but it is still Paris and there are still a good selection and range of flights from there. JER will no doubt also be quite popular if the price is right.
Heard it will be two F50's based......would there be additional flights after the water is tested ? Hope so.........
ORY is a new destination......may not be CDG for connections but it is still Paris and there are still a good selection and range of flights from there. JER will no doubt also be quite popular if the price is right.
Heard it will be two F50's based......would there be additional flights after the water is tested ? Hope so.........
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Unfortunately I don't see this lasting, and fear CWL have just bought the first airline to pick up the phone. My reasoning:
Time will tell
- The F50 is a good plane, but getting a tad elderly now, and therefore more expensive to operate
Time will tell
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Heard it will be two F50's based......would there be additional flights after the water is tested ? Hope so.........
I know that Doctor Who is filmed in Cardiff. Frankly I think you have to hope that some suspension of the laws of physics occurs there as a result because it's the only way that these flights will be sustainably profitable.
C.
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Arfortune, you make valid points.
I just can't see what USP Cityjet will have and cannot see what sort of a strategy/ business model that new owners will employ, what does seem clear is that AF have been desperate to off load it, hence I'd imagine quite a big amount of cash changed hands in the direction of the new owners.
The company needs scale. It is small and needs investment. My sense would be that the operation needs to be much leaner and go down the franchise model route or work as wet lease operator etc.
I just can't see what USP Cityjet will have and cannot see what sort of a strategy/ business model that new owners will employ, what does seem clear is that AF have been desperate to off load it, hence I'd imagine quite a big amount of cash changed hands in the direction of the new owners.
The company needs scale. It is small and needs investment. My sense would be that the operation needs to be much leaner and go down the franchise model route or work as wet lease operator etc.
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doom and gloom on this forum. THis should be good news.
I know my way around the business, been in it for long enough, but I'm the eternal optimist … let's think of it another way.
New owners, new philosophy, new City Jet, they have the potential to be an awesome airline … with the right model and third party support this could be a great opportunity for them ...
I know my way around the business, been in it for long enough, but I'm the eternal optimist … let's think of it another way.
New owners, new philosophy, new City Jet, they have the potential to be an awesome airline … with the right model and third party support this could be a great opportunity for them ...
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Cumbrianbuy and others,
When I first read this, being out of UK and aviation for more than two years, I thought "good for CWL, they've netted a catch" but when I read further that all they seemed to have netted is, quite literally, a squatter looking for it's next home to squat in, then it seems that what CWL have actually netted is a Stickleback rather than a prime cod.
Cityjet never has the potential to be an awesome airline, it might just survive as a tin pot sub contracting for mainstream carriers but when operating a fleet of BAe146's and re-engined 1950's design Fokkers I'd suggest that the writing is on the wall.
When I first read this, being out of UK and aviation for more than two years, I thought "good for CWL, they've netted a catch" but when I read further that all they seemed to have netted is, quite literally, a squatter looking for it's next home to squat in, then it seems that what CWL have actually netted is a Stickleback rather than a prime cod.
Cityjet never has the potential to be an awesome airline, it might just survive as a tin pot sub contracting for mainstream carriers but when operating a fleet of BAe146's and re-engined 1950's design Fokkers I'd suggest that the writing is on the wall.
Presumably the Fokker's and RJ's were paid for long ago, so utilisation might not be a huge issue - no idea what the overhead was of being an AF/KLM company, but it might that if they can reduce their overheads there is a space for somebody serving regional markets across Europe - been a lot of consolidation so might be a few gaps have opened up for somebody with the right product.
No doubt we'll find out soon enough...
No doubt we'll find out soon enough...
Last edited by SWBKCB; 23rd Dec 2013 at 05:36.
Just noticed on the Cityjet website the press release about Cardiff indicates routes will begin on 20th January, but will not go on sale until 8th January - so just 12 calendar days or 8 working days between going on sale and first commercial flight
Hope they've got some *very* effective marketing in January !
https://www.cityjet.com/news/cardiff...-flights.shtml
Hope they've got some *very* effective marketing in January !
https://www.cityjet.com/news/cardiff...-flights.shtml
Join Date: Nov 2005
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When you think that BE announced the route cuts on 4th December, Cityjet announced on 19th December and then another 3 weeks until routes go on sale with the Christmas period in the middle, and new operation setup and started by 20th Jan, that's not bad going.
I would hope that there's a bit of overtime going in over Christmas rather than nothing happening. I'm no Airline expert but surely there's licences to get, operational plans to set up, crewing, maintenance, contracts etc etc.
Hopefully the new owners can turn the Airline around to reduce their operating costs, and decent contracts between CWL and Cityjet can allow a reduction in fares in comparison with the LCY routes, which obviously have the economy to support higher fares.
Whilst there is no direct competition for Cityjet at CWL (I don't imagine BE-JER and Loganair-EDI will last long), they still effectively have to compete with EZY at BRS
I would hope that there's a bit of overtime going in over Christmas rather than nothing happening. I'm no Airline expert but surely there's licences to get, operational plans to set up, crewing, maintenance, contracts etc etc.
Hopefully the new owners can turn the Airline around to reduce their operating costs, and decent contracts between CWL and Cityjet can allow a reduction in fares in comparison with the LCY routes, which obviously have the economy to support higher fares.
Whilst there is no direct competition for Cityjet at CWL (I don't imagine BE-JER and Loganair-EDI will last long), they still effectively have to compete with EZY at BRS
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Be/City
My money is on Flybe staying being on the Edinburgh rather then City.
As for the other routes if the market is there it will be used. Think positive, who else would have taken the routes on?
Centre cities
As for the other routes if the market is there it will be used. Think positive, who else would have taken the routes on?
Centre cities