CARDIFF - 2

[Ringwayman]

.come on sort it out

Ermm... sorry to break this to you but if not enough passengers want to fly between CWL and CDG then it's not flybe's fault. Try the fault of the Welsh population instead for not backing the route.

As for "BA Express"'s 3 daily J41/EMB145, perhaps you can tell us why you think that route and airline no longer exist?

[Cloud1]

Letsflycwl - appreciate your enthusiasm for your local airport but what a comment to make.

How many times have you used the CDG or GLA route since it was launched?

Ringwayman is correct, its no fault other than people not using it. Fares have come down so that old chestnut cannot be used as an excuse any more. The reality is there is not enough demand.

60 odd routes are not making money, thats what has been quoted on another thread. If CWL to GLA and CDG are included in that number, get rid and add something useful.

Have CWL not recently gained ski flights this winter to GNB, LYS, CMF and GVA - first time for a couple of years? Who are introducing those - oh yes, Flybe. Flybe promised so much, and have tried and continue to do so. Support the routes and they will remain - rely on others to support it and see small figures, they shall go. Simples

[j636]

If Cardiff were able to get Vueling on side for a service to Paris a couple of days per week and the airline could make it work and be profitable it could be a very good thing. If Vueling can make routes other than completely holiday flights work it would increase the chances of growth at Cardiff.

[ATPLwhoops]

Cardiff Airport should give an incentive to Blue Islands, they could link CWL with CDG. They could do a W pattern, JER CDG CWL CDG JER. Its currently offered out of JER 4 times a week. 46 seater ATR could make money.

[davidjohnson6]

The rather more worrying thing, not only for the airport, but also for south Wales, is that 75,000 passengers on 2 scheduled routes each with a high degree of business focus are being lost. The closure of the Paris route means Cardiff has lost access to a major hub - it's now left with just Amsterdam as primary hub and Dublin for transatlantic.

Cardiff is the only (normal) UK airport with more charter passengers than scheduled, meaning the airport as a whole is already overly focused on taking Welsh residents on holiday abroad somewhere rather than anything which might revive the Welsh economy.

[Letsflycwl]

British Regional had it perfect at CWL.....small turboprop aircraft operating to a wide range of destinations.....CWL is obviously suited to good frequencies with smaller aircraft......BAe J41 be perfect and could operate to CDG, BRU, GLA, ORK, JER & GCI to name a few.

J41, D38 & AT4 aircraft be spot on.....BA Regional did 3 CDG flights a day along with 2 BRU flights a day with J41's and it worked well for them.....far more suitable than a A319 or 737 ex CWL !!!

[Phileas Fogg]

2 BRU flights a day with J41's

Yes, I did a day return CWL/BRU/CWL one time, as I recall we were 3 pax on the outbound and just me on the return.

[cym]

Both CDG and BRU were upgraded to E145's by BRAL so loads and yield must have been ok for them to have taken the additional costs - CDG was in fact 3 per day.

The airport need to fill these gaps asap - failure to do so will send out a very negative message. Who knows AF my pick you CDG think it was codeshare with BE anyway

[mathers_wales_uk]

A lot of the busier airports these days prefer to have larger aircraft and will charge accordingly. You only have to look close to home in the UK to see this.

London City - Airlines operating larger aircraft
Gatwick - Airlines using small aircraft are being charged more to entice them to use larger aircraft (Hence Flybe withdrawal)
Heathrow - Capacity restraints resulting in only real increase in airline capacity can come from aircraft upgrades.

Looking at the suggested routes below

Brussels - Struggles to work and has failed by Air Wales and Eastern Airways
Paris CDG - Will work at the right times with the right aircraft type
Jersey - Currently still covered 5 x weekly (Summer by Flybe)
Cork - Will work at 1 x daily
Guernsey - Last attempt operated by Blue Islands 1 x weekly and couldn't even fill a J31.

[ATPLwhoops]

I think Paris could work with Blue Islands ATR42 in a W pattern out of CDG. What you think?

[Phileas Fogg]

Paris CDG - Will work at the right times with the right aircraft type

I flew CWL to CDG back in 2010, Air France operate the service utilising a F70 that routes via AMS ... indeed I flew CWL to SIN with Air France via AMS and CDG.

[davidjohnson6]

Phileas - exactly how many people who want to travel to/from Paris as a final destination would be prepared to fly CWL-AMS-CDG when they could fly BRS-CDG instead ?

[Phileas Fogg]

David,

Passengers take intermediary stops all the time, just as one example NQY to Scotland via LON, that's on a par with CWL/CDG via AMS is it not?

On the other hand could fart around with a bus or train in to Cardiff Central, then I guess another train to Bristol Templemeads, then a bus out towards some place called Lulsgate Bottom and, hey, on the return perhaps arriving back in to BRS at 2000 hours or whatever pne can look forward to getting home at somewhere around midnight.

Which sounds easiest to you?

[cym]

Loganair would be a good fit for GLA with say 3 daily

[mathers_wales_uk]

I know what Phileas is saying and you would be suprised as I know of somone recently travelled Munich - Amsterdam - Paris - Cardiff and believe it or not it wasn't because he liked planes.

I suppose it all depends on how it fits in to their schedule because the aircraft I believe does not operate direct.

Loganair would be interesting as o course they would be using the Flybe brand and therefore technically the route would still be sold using the Flybe platforms. It's the case unfortunately of airlines who have the aircraft availability with relatively short notice as route planning is usually done well in advance.

[virginblue]

As a matter of fact, airlines with 30/50 seats have all but disappeared (except in niche markets) - and certainly not because airlines were too blind to see the great potential of such aircraft.

The travelling public is no longer prepared to fork out the money tickets cost 20 years ago - let alone even more because fuel, charges , APDs ect. have all made production for airlines more expensive.

[Phileas Fogg]

As a matter of fact, airlines with 30/50 seats have all but disappeared

Just for starters ... Try posting that in the Eastern Airways thread!

[virginblue]

That's about the only airline of that type (plus Sun Air) still around in all major European countries. None left in Germany, in France HOP! is currently disposing of its 50seaters etc. etc.

[macdo]

The fact of the matter is, there isn't enough business travellers in South Wales to justify running these services, they don't make money year in and year out, so the intrepid airlines retire wounded. History repeated for 20 and more years. If Flybe and Baby can't do it no-one can, unless something changes to make the figures add up. Cancel APD in Wales or subsidise the whole thing from central taxation. Neither are going to happen anytime soon, so someone else, maybe Loganair, who knows, will have another go and then retire wounded again. Running a profitable airline is a case of pile it high and sell it cheap or limit the volume and sell to an up market clientele. CWL can't supply either volume or high net worth pax.
Its a shame, but this place will stumble on for years busy in the summer, dead in winter, eventually kept going by taxpayer money when the current business plan goes belly up.
The only way out IMHO is to do away with APD to make CWL attractive on a cost basis alone.

BTW J31?????? are you mad? I get paid to fly on a j31 in another part of the world, they only just about pay me enough to tolerate it.

[cym]

Dont agree - BRAL made it all work and make money.

Have you ever thought that this is around a bigger decision? Reducing routes helps reduce frames - not every sector is a write off.

Substantiate your views