CARDIFF - 2
Phileas - I agree that the Gower peninsula is lovely - even as a snotty teenager I remember thinking "this is really quite nice here". There are of course plenty of other nice bits in south Wales like Brecon beacons.
I'm not quite sure I understand your point about Swansea and Aberporth airports. Could you perhaps clarify what you're trying to express specifically in relation to Swansea and Aberporth airports ?
I'm not quite sure I understand your point about Swansea and Aberporth airports. Could you perhaps clarify what you're trying to express specifically in relation to Swansea and Aberporth airports ?
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David,
That the touristic destinations of Wales are nowhere near to CWL, if you live, let's say, around Manchester and want to holiday in West Wales would you consider flying to CWL then hiring a car or whatever?
The chances are you, and the majority, would opt to take your own car with you and then have your own transport during your holiday, but were there flights direct in to a West Wales airport I'm guessing that many would need to think twice before taking the car.
And as for Mid and North Wales, well BHX, LPL etc. are far more convenient for these than CWL is ever likely to be.
That the touristic destinations of Wales are nowhere near to CWL, if you live, let's say, around Manchester and want to holiday in West Wales would you consider flying to CWL then hiring a car or whatever?
The chances are you, and the majority, would opt to take your own car with you and then have your own transport during your holiday, but were there flights direct in to a West Wales airport I'm guessing that many would need to think twice before taking the car.
And as for Mid and North Wales, well BHX, LPL etc. are far more convenient for these than CWL is ever likely to be.
Cardiff airport will never support traffic whose sole destination is Snowdonia - the target market is people who are visiting south Wales. Anything else must be considered as out of scope. (Yes I know about RAF Valley and had my 1st flying lesson at Caernarfon) but nobody outside the UK does). People coming from anywhere in southern or central England should also be deemed as out of scope for Cardiff airport - ground transport is too good in comparison. Thus the target inbound tourist market for Cardiff airport should be Scotland, the island of Ireland and anywhere outside the UK.
Swansea's runway is too small to support anything other than puddle jumpers and there probably isn't enough money floating around Swansea to get much local usage of the airport - the route to London City about 7 years ago failed pretty quickly. The only game in town is Cardiff - or Bristol.
Taking a train from Rhoose and changing at Bridgend for somewhere further west is not a major burden - certainly easier than transferring from Bristol or Birmingham
Swansea's runway is too small to support anything other than puddle jumpers and there probably isn't enough money floating around Swansea to get much local usage of the airport - the route to London City about 7 years ago failed pretty quickly. The only game in town is Cardiff - or Bristol.
Taking a train from Rhoose and changing at Bridgend for somewhere further west is not a major burden - certainly easier than transferring from Bristol or Birmingham
Last edited by davidjohnson6; 17th Jul 2013 at 11:13.
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David,
First it would be a transfer to Rhoose village station for the once an hour service to Bridgend to connect with the mainline, on the other hand if the airport laid on a transfer to/from any of the four railway stations in Barry then there is a train every 15 minutes to connect with the mainline at Cardiff Central and/or up the valleys or to Brum and further north.
Perhaps that's part of the airport's mistake, for many a year the Rhoose line was freight only, they reopened it for a once an hour service, called it "Cardiff Airport" station when all the majority of train travellers want to do is get to Cardiff Central and they don't want to wait for up to an hour to do so and Barry rail station must be only about 3 miles, less than 10 minutes, from the airport.
There was a time when National Express served the airport, they had a codeshare on the Cardiff X91 Bus to connect with NE coaches at Cardiff Central, that clearly didn't work, then as I mentioned a couple of posts ago an independant (Llandow) bus operator specialised in the early morning and late evening services but that only seemed to work for bringing all the drunks home from the pubs.
The airport clearly need to get their transport sorted out because it seems they still haven't sorted it some 25 years since I started working at CWL.
Transferring to/from BHX? ... I was a regular, I'd park the car for free at Hampton-In-Arden rail station to take the 3 minute train ride into Birmingham International then a minute or so on "Pinky or Perky" listening to the most irritating BMI Baby jingles
, then down an escalator and I was at the check-in desk!!!
First it would be a transfer to Rhoose village station for the once an hour service to Bridgend to connect with the mainline, on the other hand if the airport laid on a transfer to/from any of the four railway stations in Barry then there is a train every 15 minutes to connect with the mainline at Cardiff Central and/or up the valleys or to Brum and further north.
Perhaps that's part of the airport's mistake, for many a year the Rhoose line was freight only, they reopened it for a once an hour service, called it "Cardiff Airport" station when all the majority of train travellers want to do is get to Cardiff Central and they don't want to wait for up to an hour to do so and Barry rail station must be only about 3 miles, less than 10 minutes, from the airport.
There was a time when National Express served the airport, they had a codeshare on the Cardiff X91 Bus to connect with NE coaches at Cardiff Central, that clearly didn't work, then as I mentioned a couple of posts ago an independant (Llandow) bus operator specialised in the early morning and late evening services but that only seemed to work for bringing all the drunks home from the pubs.
The airport clearly need to get their transport sorted out because it seems they still haven't sorted it some 25 years since I started working at CWL.
Transferring to/from BHX? ... I was a regular, I'd park the car for free at Hampton-In-Arden rail station to take the 3 minute train ride into Birmingham International then a minute or so on "Pinky or Perky" listening to the most irritating BMI Baby jingles
, then down an escalator and I was at the check-in desk!!!
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Think you find that Swansea did & can accomodate up to 50 seat aircraft such as F50's and ATR 42's. There have also been 146's there & a Hercules on one occassion. Air Wales served Swansea & I used the SWS-CWL-LCY route on many occasions & was always full 50/50 if not more for Swansea over Cardiff. Yes the airport has gone down hill since Air Wales left but would be ideal for an operator with D38 or J41 size aircraft........
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HEATHRHOOMDON
Anyone fancy a laugh?
Have a look at this:
Could Cardiff Airport form a new UK hub alongside Birmingham and Heathrow? - Wales Online
This is Heathwick writ large: HEATHRHOOMDON (Heathrow, Rhoose, Elmdon).
What are they on? Can I have some (man)?
It is apparently proposed by an "entrepreneur", an "economist" a "transport expert" and a "management consultant" - that says it all!
Why does no one appear to understand how a hub airport works?
Have a look at this:
Could Cardiff Airport form a new UK hub alongside Birmingham and Heathrow? - Wales Online
This is Heathwick writ large: HEATHRHOOMDON (Heathrow, Rhoose, Elmdon).
What are they on? Can I have some (man)?
It is apparently proposed by an "entrepreneur", an "economist" a "transport expert" and a "management consultant" - that says it all!
Why does no one appear to understand how a hub airport works?
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 20th Jul 2013 at 19:26.
It is apparently proposed by an "entrepreneur", an "economist" a "transport expert" and a "management consultant" - that says it all!
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It is apparently proposed by an "entrepreneur", an "economist" a "transport expert" and a "management consultant" - that says it all!
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Quote: "For the record, despite having worked as three of the four things above, I am delighted to report that I have absolutely nothing to do with this nonsense. Not all entrepreneurs, management consultants and transport experts are barmy..."
Indeed they're not!
The ordinary sensible ones keep away from this sort of nonsense.
Indeed they're not!
The ordinary sensible ones keep away from this sort of nonsense.
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I can also back up Twin Aisle as well. Likewise no way involved in this in any shape or form. In my mind there is another international airport closer to London that is already open H24 and is used by widebodied aircraft. Brize Norton......
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GH,
Being ex Lyneham ATC the main runway ain't long enough, the approach lights are on telegraph poles through the local village and there's a darn great valley off the other end.
I never forget the day we had a C-141 departing, it didn't actually seem to lift off the ground before it left the runway and into the valley below, the controller's finger hovered over the "crash button" for quite some time before we spotted the aircraft slowly climbing away some miles further out.
MoD have recently invested too much money in the transferring of Lyneham to let Brize go anytime soon.
Greenham Common has a motorway and railway as does Upper Heyford.
Being ex Lyneham ATC the main runway ain't long enough, the approach lights are on telegraph poles through the local village and there's a darn great valley off the other end.
I never forget the day we had a C-141 departing, it didn't actually seem to lift off the ground before it left the runway and into the valley below, the controller's finger hovered over the "crash button" for quite some time before we spotted the aircraft slowly climbing away some miles further out.
MoD have recently invested too much money in the transferring of Lyneham to let Brize go anytime soon.
Greenham Common has a motorway and railway as does Upper Heyford.
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Groundhog a good idea.....not! Its also built on the top of a hill its close to the M4 and the GWR mainline. Makes sense but in this country anything that makes sense is the one option that will never be followed. Major projects are now run by politicians not the experts that no what is required.
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Just how much would all the high speed rail and road links to Rhoose cost?
To be a high enough speed line from Heathrow to make this viable, it's going to need to be a dedicated line - can you imagine what a train running TGV style would do to the dear old commuter trains chugging from Reading to Didcot if they used the existing line? How much for a new Severn Tunnel, or a lovely viaduct (high enough for the ships to pass)!?
I bet the cost would make a third AND fourth runway at Heathrow look like loose change...
TA
Last edited by TwinAisle; 22nd Jul 2013 at 12:49.
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TA,
Pretty much what I was thinking, good old Tom of Cowbridge sang about the "Green Green Grass of Home" and not about the air, rail and road congestion and associated pollution!
It has to be cheaper, and a darn site more convenient, to build a new airport from scratch, or develop one or more of the ex cold war military airfields, with already existing rail and/or road connection(s) than to try to rescue an out the back of beyond aerodrome such as Glamorgan/Rhoose
Pretty much what I was thinking, good old Tom of Cowbridge sang about the "Green Green Grass of Home" and not about the air, rail and road congestion and associated pollution!
It has to be cheaper, and a darn site more convenient, to build a new airport from scratch, or develop one or more of the ex cold war military airfields, with already existing rail and/or road connection(s) than to try to rescue an out the back of beyond aerodrome such as Glamorgan/Rhoose
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Quote: "Think of a number. Double it. Then double it again, a few times
To be a high enough speed line from Heathrow to make this viable, it's going to need to be a dedicated line - can you imagine what a train running TGV style would do to the dear old commuter trains chugging from Reading to Didcot if they used the existing line? How much for a new Severn Tunnel, or a lovely viaduct (high enough for the ships to pass)!?
I bet the cost would make a third AND fourth runway at Heathrow look like loose change...
TA"
Yes, and another important point: taxpayers' millions vs. Heathrow Airport Limited's "loose change".
Quote: "It has to be cheaper, and a darn site more convenient, to build a new airport from scratch, or develop one or more of the ex cold war military airfields, with already existing rail and/or road connection(s) than to try to rescue an out the back of beyond aerodrome such as Glamorgan/Rhoose"
The trouble with all these RAF or ex-RAF airfields near to motorways and/or railways is that they are all in the middle of nowhere.
Best to stick to 2 more rwys at LHR and let the private sector finance it, as they are clearly keen to do.
To be a high enough speed line from Heathrow to make this viable, it's going to need to be a dedicated line - can you imagine what a train running TGV style would do to the dear old commuter trains chugging from Reading to Didcot if they used the existing line? How much for a new Severn Tunnel, or a lovely viaduct (high enough for the ships to pass)!?
I bet the cost would make a third AND fourth runway at Heathrow look like loose change...
TA"
Yes, and another important point: taxpayers' millions vs. Heathrow Airport Limited's "loose change".
Quote: "It has to be cheaper, and a darn site more convenient, to build a new airport from scratch, or develop one or more of the ex cold war military airfields, with already existing rail and/or road connection(s) than to try to rescue an out the back of beyond aerodrome such as Glamorgan/Rhoose"
The trouble with all these RAF or ex-RAF airfields near to motorways and/or railways is that they are all in the middle of nowhere.
Best to stick to 2 more rwys at LHR and let the private sector finance it, as they are clearly keen to do.
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 22nd Jul 2013 at 17:56.
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FDF,
A number of major airports are in the "middle of nowhere" generally because it is safer and disturbing less people, here in the Philippines they're thinking of doing away with Manila airport as the gateway to the country and routing the international flights through Clark Airport ... because it's in the middle of nowhere.
A number of major airports are in the "middle of nowhere" generally because it is safer and disturbing less people, here in the Philippines they're thinking of doing away with Manila airport as the gateway to the country and routing the international flights through Clark Airport ... because it's in the middle of nowhere.
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Quite right, you can't use an airport in the middle of nowhere so let's use Rhoose International .... which last time I was there was in the middle of nowhere!