CARDIFF - 2

[Phileas Fogg]

CWL is NOT in the middle of nowhere ... it is centrally located between the Cwm Ciddy in Barry, the Fontygary Inn in Rhoose, The Highwayman Inn in Nurston and the Six Bells Inn in Penmark!

[8eyes]

TwinAisle.

At least you work in the real world. You are so right to disassociate yourself from this report. I am very sceptical about most things I have read on WalesOnline, particularly articles claiming to be able to create hundreds if not thousands of jobs. And there have been a few that claim just that.

Back to reality. I can understand the potential of somewhere like BHX as a major hub because the infrastructure is already in place and it is a relatively easy connection to London. Whether we like it or not, it is the connectability to the southeast that is vital. London and its environs matter here big time because that is where most connections, travellers and money emanate. It's just a fact of life.

So A BHX hub is a possibility, a Thameside hub is credible, expansion at Stansted is likely as it is at Gatwick. But a major hub in say Norwich (140miles to LHR) is not, nor is East Mids (120miles) and Cardiff (150miles) is a definite NoNo. It just is not going to happen. It makes no logical sense whatsoever.

So who exactly has cooked this one up? Have they any real experience in Public Transport, Aviation, Railways, or Airports? Yet here they are claiming a potential of 55,000 jobs and an estimated 8 to 20 million pax going through CWL by 2040. Really? Oh and by the way it will only cost £18 billion! Well that's great then - isn't it.

[Fairdealfrank]

Quote: "FDF,

A number of major airports are in the "middle of nowhere" generally because it is safer and disturbing less people, here in the Philippines they're thinking of doing away with Manila airport as the gateway to the country and routing the international flights through Clark Airport ... because it's in the middle of nowhere."

Are Philippines airports and Philippines Airlines (PAL) privately owned?

How far is Clark from Manila? Is there good surface access? Will MNL remain open for point-to-point domestic and "near abroad" flights?

If so, it could be planned to be a GMP/ICN, HND/NRT or TSA/TPE type set up. Hesitate to add SHA/PVG to the list, because PVG isn't that far out.



Quote: "Back to reality. I can understand the potential of somewhere like BHX as a major hub because the infrastructure is already in place and it is a relatively easy connection to London. Whether we like it or not, it is the connectability to the southeast that is vital. London and its environs matter here big time because that is where most connections, travellers and money emanate. It's just a fact of life. "

No, a connection to London is not neccessarily needed for BHX (or GLA, MAN) to be a hub. No one going to London needs to change at BHX (there are no flights anyway), because there are many flights direct to London airports. Very few longhaul flights would go to BHX (or GLA, MAN) unless they were also at LHR or LGW.

What is needed to be a HUB is a good network of shorthaul destinations with interlining/through ticketing arrangements for any potential longhaul flights to connect to. Think of MUC to see this in practice in 2013.

BHX, GLA and MAN had this, but over the last 15 years or so their shorthaul networks have been replaced in part by "no-frills" operators who do not participate in with interlining/through ticketing arrangements.

Quote: "So A BHX hub is a possibility, a Thameside hub is credible, expansion at Stansted is likely as it is at Gatwick."

Subject to the above, a BHX hub could be a possibility but not as "Heathdon" dual hub or instead of LHR expansion. Also, LGW and/or STN cannot be substitutes for LHR expansion. An estuary hub is the stuff of vanity project fantasy (sorry Silver!) and not going to happen.

Quote: "But a major hub in say Norwich (140miles to LHR) is not, nor is East Mids (120miles) and Cardiff (150miles) is a definite NoNo. It just is not going to happen. It makes no logical sense whatsoever."

Exactly.

[Phileas Fogg]

FDF,

This is supposed to be a CWL thread so we shouldn't get so far distracted however:

Clark Freeport Zone - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The future international gateway for the country is currently being built at Clark International Airport. It is planned to become one of the world's biggest in terms of terminal size and land area. A high speed railway system will be built to connect the new airport to Metro Manila. Officially, Ninoy Aquino International Airport (NAIA) is the only airport serving the Manila area. However, in practice, both NAIA and Clark International Airport(CRK) serve the Capital and surrounding cities, with CRK catering mostly to low-cost carriers that avail themselves of the lower landing fees than those charged at NAIA.

[planenut321]

EIR to increase CWL-DUB to 19 weekly, 3 x daily M-F and 2 x S-S from April 2014. The timings suggest that MCO should return as a connection, however, the times are still poor for an SFO connection. I know it is early days and this is (very) subject to change, but with CWL's current situation, growth like this on the core routes is vital in order for the airport to achieve a more sustainable model. Once that occurs, other routes should (eventually) follow.

[LTNman]

A380 comes to Cardiff Nice video hereBBC News - A380 superjumbo lands at Cardiff Airport

[AirGuru]

Cardiff Airport Express bus service launched

Yesterday, the Cardiff Airport Express bus service was officially launched operated by First Group Cymru. The service is planned to make 3 stops supposedly, operating at 20 minute intervals. The buses are coach style with leather seating, large amounts of luggage space and free on-board Wi-Fi.

The press releases from various media can be viewed below:

BBC

WalesOnline

Cardiff Airport - Official Release

A congratulations is also in order to the BAMC staff, CWL ground staff and NATS for the successful handling of the A380 yesterday. I went to the airport to see the spectacle and it was quite an occasion.

[Phileas Fogg]

£5 for a one way journey, isn't that about twice the price of other bus services between the city and airport?

[mathers_wales_uk]

Unsure in honesty Philleas however the normal bus services take in the region of 50mins to 1 hour and runs hourly and worse on Sundays but this service is every 20 mins. It is far cheaper than the £29 for a taxi.

The biggets concern should be that the bus begins operating on the 1st August so on Thursday but no timetable has been published.

[TOM100]

New bus service - clueless

The team seem so unprofessional. They launch a
New service with big fanfare, no timetable
Can you use for early morning departures and the very late
charter arrivals ? It doesn't even tell us where it
leaves from in city centre - I assume central station area
but some buses leave from near the Hilton ??

Then they point you to a link (assume the operator)
that contains absolutely no information about the service and it starts on Thursday !

[mrgittins]

Will there be a taxi service to criticise once this service starts ? I doubt it. Bad for the drivers there who have to buy their own vehicles ( and presumably a lot will be on HP) there and all the costs therein they have. Oh, they are tax payers too so technically they are now paying for the WAG to take their trade from them ? And, no, they don't want to ferry the drunks in local pubs around, if so they would be in the local town already. Their liveliehood and commitment, many with numerous years service will be snuffed out. One must wonder how they feel as their commercial service is replaced with this government funded scheme.

[mathers_wales_uk]

The Express Bus has been launched and the service is due to begin on Thursday 1st August and wil be operated by First Cymru using the TrawsCymru brand.

The length of the journey between Cardiff Central & Cardiff will be 30 minutes but the return will be 40 minutes as it routes via the bay.

Cardiff to Cardiff Airport Route
Departures: 04:10 - 23:10
Arrives: 04:55 23:55

• Atlantic Wharf, County Hall, SW-bound, Hemmingway Road (Departs 10,30 & 50 past every hour)
• Cardiff, Customhouse Street, Stop JL
• Cardiff, Wood Street, Stop JT
• Cardiff, Bus Station, Stand D1, Central Square (Departs 05, 25 & 45 past every hour)
• Wallston, Wallston Castle, Port Road
• Barry, Cwm Ciddy, Port Road
• Cardiff Airport, Passenger Terminal (Arrives 15, 35 & 55 past every hour)

Cardiff Airport to Cardiff Route
Departures: 05:00 - 23:40
Arrives: 05:40 - 00:20

• Cardiff Airport, Passenger Terminal (Departs 00, 20 & 40 past every hour)
• Tredogan, Holiday Inn Express, opp, Port Road
• Barry, Cwm Ciddy, Port Road West
• Wallston, Wallston Castle, Port Road
• Atlantic Wharf, County Hall, SW-bound, Hemmingway Road (Departs 10, 30 & 50 past every hour)
• Cardiff, Customhouse Street, Stop JT
• Cardiff, Bus Station, Stand D1, Central Square (Arrives 00, 20 & 40 every hour)

[davidjohnson6]

MrGittins - your argument seems to be that Govt should never invest in public transport because taxi drivers get fewer big fares. Many of Cardiff airport's passengers who likely significantly outnumber cabbies and frequently live in Wales might prefer the cheaper bus over the expensive taxi.

There are enough people arriving at Cardiff airport who want to go somewhere other than on the city centre bus route to ensure there will continue to be taxis at Cardiff airport arrivals.

[mrgittins]

Yes they will, I am not naive. My point is that the drivers I know have HP to fund superior vehicles in a certain colour, age etc as required with the taxi operator contract WITH the airport. There will be NO service. That is the point. For those who do not wish to travel by bus to Cardiff or anywhere else. What will happen when for instance airline pax have to travel to BRS, BRS, LHR etc due to cancellations/diverts ? Others like students arriving at CWL with several baggage items need door to door services, like many others. I hope the service stays but I await the criticism when people realise how bad the links are to anywhere else in South Wales / UK and cannot get an on site taxi.

[TOM100]

New bus service

Thanks Mathers this is really helpful but I could not find this info online anywhere unless i was being blind. I hope this service works (sadly I am not sure it will). To give it half a chance they need to spend a shed load of money marketing it in West Wales, West Country and Cardiff area. I just don't think the airport has a strong and aggressive enough marketing team unlike BRS, EMA etc .

If I was a CWL senior manager I wud be trying to headhunt one of these rye of guys with proven success. CWL needs to up its game and people and stop recycling the same old.......

[Monty Gordo]

Cardiff Airport Bus

Living in Herefordshire I am one of those travellers who have the options of three relatively close airports from which to travel; Birmingham, Bristol and Cardiff. If i choose not to drive to the airport i will have to travel by rail.

This brings me on to this new bus service; both Bristol and Birmingham are easy airports to get to if i travel by train. Birmingham direct into the airport terminal itself and with Bristol, a bus service that leaves from directly outside Temple Meads.

Having looked at the timetable from an earlier post, and not being familiar with Cardiff city centre, am I to assume that Cardiff Bus Station is directly outside the rail station? Because from the timetable as set out nowhere does it mention the rail station.

If that is not the case, there is a severe lack of joined-up thinking

[TOM100]

New bus service

Yes bus station is right outside train station although I am not aware of any train arrivals before 6am (service starts 0410am) and there is no terminal in the bus station you can wait in ?

Why aren't they doing something promotional for the first month eg £1 single and £2 return to get awareness ?

If any of you have seen BT Sport that launches on 1/8 they are offering free for 6 months and bombarding jus with advertising. CWL shud have a significant launch marketing budget and not just limp along with a few oysters in terminal and a press release ? Seem more interested in talking about a380 occasional diverts than core business !

[mathers_wales_uk]

The bus station is directly outside the railway station and where passengers would have to wait up to an hour if you just missed the previous train the new bus link will be every 20 minutes.

The timetable can be viewed via TravelineCymru website

The Cardiff Airport have been doing a great job advertising for most of this year. They have been sponsoring the weather of Real Radio for many a month. First we had the Escape the Rain fly Vueling to Spain campaign that included the ticket gates at Cardiff Central Station & Swansea and spreads in many a magazine. It then switched to KLM adverts for a month then returned to a different Vueling advert. At the same time there has been online campaigns for Aer Lingus services with connections at Dublin.

Compared to recent years it is a huge difference and should be commended.

[Phileas Fogg]

Cardiff Central is both the train station and the bus station, unsure of opening/closing times but along the side of the bus station there are establishments such as coffee vendors and Burger King.

BUT ... £5 for a single is extortionate, Mathers quotes £29 for a taxi, probably an airport taxi, yet the first of the goggle results "Cardiff Cabs" quotes £24 so with a bit of shopping around that fare could easily become less than £20 and if it's a family of 2, of 3, of 4 travelling then £5 per seat ultimately becomes more expensive than a taxi.

About the only thing wrong with the X91 service is the infrequency of services, once every 2 hours outside of morning and evening peak periods, I
used it regularly to/from Barry (Tesco's) and Cardiff and it was ever so quick a journey time and, I think, less than half the price of this new service. As for the other regular bus service, yes that is a pain and takes around an hour from Cardiff to the airport but then people will continue to use these "regular" services simply on cost alone.

Sure this new service is convenient for anyone arriving/departing Cardiff Central by train but other than that, taking in to consideration that people would need to pay for travel from/to their homes to connect with this service, and at the fare charged nobody's likely to use it for local travel (Cardiff to Barry as an example) I can foresee a LOT of empty buses darting around the Vale of Glamorgan.

[davidjohnson6]

Philease - I agree that £5 might seem a lot, but there seems to be a rule throughout the UK (possibly much of the world) that transport between an airport and the local city centre must cost an inflated price unless said form of transport stops at every haystack and takes forever. People grumble, but sufficiently often, they pay up. Last time I checked, the X91 from Cardiff airport to city centre cost £3.90

You may wish to know that a one-way from central London to Luton airport by coach costs £15 and a return £20 (with an additional £1 booking fee if you are gullible enough to want to ensure you have a seat by booking on the web in advance). Taking things to an extreme, the Heathrow Express costs £20 one way and £34 return - all for a 15 min journey, and yes people do pay rather than take the tube.

I'd venture that at a £5, someone's decided that the public can probably be persuaded in most cases to pay that much along with the minor odd verbal grumble, compared to the local bus that stops everywhere.