Virgin Atlantic
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15 years ago Virgin Atlantic ran a billboard advertising campaign to market that the fact it offered seat-back TV entertainment in economy. It was relevant then because, as the ads stated, other airlines offered "Sweet BA".
15 years on, Virgin has just run a billboard advertising campaign to market the fact it offers seat-back TV entertainment. They haven't moved on.
15 years on, Virgin has just run a billboard advertising campaign to market the fact it offers seat-back TV entertainment. They haven't moved on.
Paxing All Over The World
Omnipresent
Well .. I'd guess since everyone now offers seat back TV, they are just making sure that potential new customers know that.
Since the specifics of the entertainment systems are difficult to get across and any 'prime' carrier offers the same type of 'start when you want' film and TV progs, there is little to separate them. Old lags that remember the introduction of the Super 8 film on cartridge at the front of the 747-100 cabin and the earphones that were plastic tubes connected to mini speakers in the arm rest ...
No, I don't work for them and never have.
(signed) an Old Lag
They haven't moved on.
Since the specifics of the entertainment systems are difficult to get across and any 'prime' carrier offers the same type of 'start when you want' film and TV progs, there is little to separate them. Old lags that remember the introduction of the Super 8 film on cartridge at the front of the 747-100 cabin and the earphones that were plastic tubes connected to mini speakers in the arm rest ...
No, I don't work for them and never have.
(signed) an Old Lag
Perhaps SRB and his team should have spent more time focusing on their own product instead of spending millions BA bashing over the years. You only have to read the rivalry section of Wikipedia to find out what went on.
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This is getting close to a consensus!
1. VS has lost market position.
2. VS is loosing money.
3. Perception within the industry is, it's lost its way!
4. Current marketing is based on outdated principles.
I'm sure a lot more can be added to this list. Question is how do they go about turning around, what was once an excellent airline? Can that be done with the current management?
2. VS is loosing money.
3. Perception within the industry is, it's lost its way!
4. Current marketing is based on outdated principles.
I'm sure a lot more can be added to this list. Question is how do they go about turning around, what was once an excellent airline? Can that be done with the current management?
vs future
quote:
I'm sure a lot more can be added to this list. Question is how do they go about turning around, what was once an excellent airline? Can that be done with the current management?
me:
well as i said the new Yank at the Top seems to be welding his way through departments and although not as much of a hacket job as yet on the chaff as Willie Walsh did on his arrival at BA things have started to be 'noticed' and we will have to wait and see if his progress reaps rewards.
the full Delta tie-up starts up right now and imho i think Delta may take over more eventually and the longevity of the Virgin brand? who knows?
.
as for SRB seems he prefers to run around in his pants now on Necker dealing with his other interests and spaceships.
None of the Branson siblings seem to want to get hands on with the airline which was always SRB's main baby.
Loyal pax are unhappy about the J and the Y seats, the poor grub on board, a lot of sadly negative comments about the cabin and ground staff - that comes from the Top and staff moral can be fixed quickly even in hard times with the right motivation.
the little red venture - 'one year on' figures will be interesting
Pax love the Clubhouses & limo (limo - Full J fares) exclusive kerb check-in and VS own fast-track security at LHR - all innovations VS have done well with over the years.
the W product should be better with legroom much more than 38'' - the seat is OK though just not enough space when fully reclined in front of you - a recent enhanced meal still could be better - the W fares are often not cheap nor good value for this premium Y long haul product.
the Y product - its not enough to say you have fabulous Panasonic IFE
(only available on less than half the current fleet) when you snap at them and starve them over 12 hours and make them sit on seats where the comfort factor makes a park bench look attractive.
for the first time pax are comparing VAA (a 4 star airline) with Ryanair - if i was at the Top i would be mortified if i heard and read this...
as i said above do VS managers actually fly on anyone else to have a look see? Whatever VS do next will cost money but they may be well spent if they start getting it right again and get out in front once more.
it would be sad to see VS go the same way as the wonderful Wardair, Laker,
Lauda Air and a few more inventive carriers who had similar brand loyalty.
I'm sure a lot more can be added to this list. Question is how do they go about turning around, what was once an excellent airline? Can that be done with the current management?
me:
well as i said the new Yank at the Top seems to be welding his way through departments and although not as much of a hacket job as yet on the chaff as Willie Walsh did on his arrival at BA things have started to be 'noticed' and we will have to wait and see if his progress reaps rewards.
the full Delta tie-up starts up right now and imho i think Delta may take over more eventually and the longevity of the Virgin brand? who knows?
.
as for SRB seems he prefers to run around in his pants now on Necker dealing with his other interests and spaceships.
None of the Branson siblings seem to want to get hands on with the airline which was always SRB's main baby.
Loyal pax are unhappy about the J and the Y seats, the poor grub on board, a lot of sadly negative comments about the cabin and ground staff - that comes from the Top and staff moral can be fixed quickly even in hard times with the right motivation.
the little red venture - 'one year on' figures will be interesting
Pax love the Clubhouses & limo (limo - Full J fares) exclusive kerb check-in and VS own fast-track security at LHR - all innovations VS have done well with over the years.
the W product should be better with legroom much more than 38'' - the seat is OK though just not enough space when fully reclined in front of you - a recent enhanced meal still could be better - the W fares are often not cheap nor good value for this premium Y long haul product.
the Y product - its not enough to say you have fabulous Panasonic IFE
(only available on less than half the current fleet) when you snap at them and starve them over 12 hours and make them sit on seats where the comfort factor makes a park bench look attractive.
for the first time pax are comparing VAA (a 4 star airline) with Ryanair - if i was at the Top i would be mortified if i heard and read this...
as i said above do VS managers actually fly on anyone else to have a look see? Whatever VS do next will cost money but they may be well spent if they start getting it right again and get out in front once more.
it would be sad to see VS go the same way as the wonderful Wardair, Laker,
Lauda Air and a few more inventive carriers who had similar brand loyalty.
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.......and staff moral can be fixed quickly even in hard times with the right motivation.
the little red venture - 'one year on' figures will be interesting
the little red venture - 'one year on' figures will be interesting
"The little red venture".
From what I've seen the loads have been mixed. Last week a LHR / EDI early flight had 3 pax on board. A more proactive yield management strategy might be the answer, VS still don't have a short haul mindset.
epsomdog
re staff moral i never mentioned any big pay rise as a 'fix'
- you can ''team'' everyone up even without a pay rise if you do it well...
as you state yourself =
- staff have to be inspired and believe in their product!
(thus not sure where you got 'giving a big pay rise' from my dialogue)
re little red-
VS have dibbled and dabbled over the last 15+ years with Virgin Sun, Virgin Express and now Red ...
VS still do not have any tie up with their very own Oz counterparts Virgin Australia (nee Virgin Blue, Virgin Pacific, V Australia, Virgin Polynesia et al)
Virgin Oz has preferred a tie up with Ethiad through Abu Dhabi rather than DXB or HKG or LAX/SFO with VS flights. how odd...
The VAA Flying Club agreement with the VS Oz airline is pretty pathetic too.
(and Qantas dumps BA through BKK/SIN and joins EK through Dubai)
from the loads Virgin's JNB, Lagos and HKG could easily be double daily year round out of LHR and they still dither about on routes.
dithered with A380 - launch customer - lost opportunity
- you can ''team'' everyone up even without a pay rise if you do it well...
as you state yourself =
- staff have to be inspired and believe in their product!
(thus not sure where you got 'giving a big pay rise' from my dialogue)
re little red-
VS have dibbled and dabbled over the last 15+ years with Virgin Sun, Virgin Express and now Red ...
VS still do not have any tie up with their very own Oz counterparts Virgin Australia (nee Virgin Blue, Virgin Pacific, V Australia, Virgin Polynesia et al)
Virgin Oz has preferred a tie up with Ethiad through Abu Dhabi rather than DXB or HKG or LAX/SFO with VS flights. how odd...
The VAA Flying Club agreement with the VS Oz airline is pretty pathetic too.
(and Qantas dumps BA through BKK/SIN and joins EK through Dubai)
from the loads Virgin's JNB, Lagos and HKG could easily be double daily year round out of LHR and they still dither about on routes.
dithered with A380 - launch customer - lost opportunity
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Virgin have always been a toy for SRB - now he's getting on the day to day interest isn't there and they are turning into any other small airline
I'm amazed they still run those ads based on their "attractive" cabin staff - they were a bit old fashioned 20 years ago but now..... they are starting to look really out of touch and even a bit pervy
I'm amazed they still run those ads based on their "attractive" cabin staff - they were a bit old fashioned 20 years ago but now..... they are starting to look really out of touch and even a bit pervy
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Further to my previous posting, Mrs Seafire and I flew home MIA/LHR/GLA with BA last month and were happily surprised that even our WTP tickets allowed use of the BA lounges, at GLA outward and at LHR during our return. That was a "first", and I'm still fathoming how we qualified for the lounges. It was most welcome however, particularly at the T5 zoo (3.5hr transit) coming home; lounge access has never happened on our previous WTP trips.
The onboard service on all the BA flights was excellent. Just a small point, but - at the pre-dinner service out of MIA, the CC discreetly first checked his list and then said, "would you care for a drink Mrs (then Mr) Seafire?", addressing each of us by name, which then continued through the flight. That standard of service took me back a couple of decades!
Somehow I cannot see VS ever matching BA onboard standards - I think one factor may be the "maturity" of BA cabin crew, possibly stemming from perhaps differing salary structures of the two airlines. I'd also think that a much smaller proportion of VS cabin crew look upon their jobs as a long-term career - just a thought, no evidence!
Incidentally, last night, pre-planning for a trip this year, I compared BA WTP prices against VS Premium Y, and BA are also clear winners on that too.
Sorry Virgin, but you had all your chances when I was a then-loyal customer six years ago, but time after time you just blew it! Lose a customer once and they're gone forever.
I would add that I've no connection with BA nor VS, and voice my opinion purely as a customer.
The onboard service on all the BA flights was excellent. Just a small point, but - at the pre-dinner service out of MIA, the CC discreetly first checked his list and then said, "would you care for a drink Mrs (then Mr) Seafire?", addressing each of us by name, which then continued through the flight. That standard of service took me back a couple of decades!
Somehow I cannot see VS ever matching BA onboard standards - I think one factor may be the "maturity" of BA cabin crew, possibly stemming from perhaps differing salary structures of the two airlines. I'd also think that a much smaller proportion of VS cabin crew look upon their jobs as a long-term career - just a thought, no evidence!
Incidentally, last night, pre-planning for a trip this year, I compared BA WTP prices against VS Premium Y, and BA are also clear winners on that too.
Sorry Virgin, but you had all your chances when I was a then-loyal customer six years ago, but time after time you just blew it! Lose a customer once and they're gone forever.
I would add that I've no connection with BA nor VS, and voice my opinion purely as a customer.
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It's easy to get loads. The challenge is to get good yields. Until they improve their image, they won't get good enough loads at the yields they need to offer more capacity and make money. There is, for example, potential for them to operate CPT year round instead of (ZA) summer only, specially now that that there is no more SAA on the route. BA make a profit on year round daily, often double daily and they have the same constraints on the route as VS, the only advantage they have is greater connectivity at LHR.
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WTP on BA connections are into the only other fare bucket group available for UK domestic which is the equivalent of Business UK or J class, hence access to lounge. As you'll know, it doesn't permit lounge access prior to boarding the WTP flight at either LHR or MIA for return. The overall numbers for BA are low in this group so not a big commitment for them and as you say, often a nice surprise for passengers.
capetonian
the J and W loads on HKG LOS and JNB are superb usually full and double daily really is surprisingly missing if you have that amount of take-up. again missed opportunity not having the A380
cargo also is high yield
CPT has always been a misnomer - again fiddled with year in year out - do they even go up to Easter holidays this year? i do not think so - i maybe wrong but i think it finishes end of March - you are missing the peak holiday season...
CPT flights often using the old clapped out (often weight restricted N/B) A340-300 with old IFE on some a/c.
another missed opportunity was not going back to Canada quick enough nor often enough - YVR is so popular but VS do summer only - YYZ try getting a J seat on AC? - full full full
Calgary is crying out for a competitor - a great route which BA gave up years ago.
Muted that South America was on the cards - what happened to that?
Athens - why did they dump that -every Athens flight these days is busy busy busy on BA or Aegean year round.
cargo also is high yield
CPT has always been a misnomer - again fiddled with year in year out - do they even go up to Easter holidays this year? i do not think so - i maybe wrong but i think it finishes end of March - you are missing the peak holiday season...
CPT flights often using the old clapped out (often weight restricted N/B) A340-300 with old IFE on some a/c.
another missed opportunity was not going back to Canada quick enough nor often enough - YVR is so popular but VS do summer only - YYZ try getting a J seat on AC? - full full full
Calgary is crying out for a competitor - a great route which BA gave up years ago.
Muted that South America was on the cards - what happened to that?
Athens - why did they dump that -every Athens flight these days is busy busy busy on BA or Aegean year round.
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CabinCrewe
Now slightly off-thread:
Ahaa, "alles klar" now, thanks for that. Yes indeed, was much appreciated, but even when we "tried it on" to get into the lounge at MIA, the nice (not sarcasm) BA check-in guy at MIA regretted that we didn't qualify for the lounge at T5 either!
Although before departing GLA we'd seen on the BA website we would be "lounged", nothing on our printed ticket paperwork confirmed it. Although we'd used the lounge at GLA outbound, we were then fearful of a bit of a "stooshe" (Scottish word, try google!), during our return through T5, but it must've been coded onto our boarding passes - so no problem, phew!
Now slightly off-thread:
Ahaa, "alles klar" now, thanks for that. Yes indeed, was much appreciated, but even when we "tried it on" to get into the lounge at MIA, the nice (not sarcasm) BA check-in guy at MIA regretted that we didn't qualify for the lounge at T5 either!
Although before departing GLA we'd seen on the BA website we would be "lounged", nothing on our printed ticket paperwork confirmed it. Although we'd used the lounge at GLA outbound, we were then fearful of a bit of a "stooshe" (Scottish word, try google!), during our return through T5, but it must've been coded onto our boarding passes - so no problem, phew!
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JNB and LOS are primarily business routes whereas CPT is primarily leisure/VFR so the revenue management models are different. The highest revenue is attracted on traffic originating outside Southern Africa, due to the lower value of the ZAR fares, particularly when onward connections are taken into consideraton and prorates have to be applied. The peak traffic season for southbound leisure traffic into IATA subzone 232 (Mozambique, Namibia, South Africa, Zambia, Zimbabwe) is the northern hemisphere winter, hence the traditional VS ops into CPT OCT-MAR (I'm not sure when it ends this year but probably 27 MAR).
There is still potential for VS to operate into CPT year round. The classic mistake though would be to do so on a frequency of 3 a week, which does not give the flexibility that the higher yield passengers require of a daily rotation, so it's a bit of a Catch 22.
Edit : Corrected error.
Edit :
Just checked, and somewhat ironically I see that they are operating daily until late March and then three rotations a week until late April with the 340-300. It suits me .... but whether they will make money is another story. Hopefully they have made the right decisions.
There is still potential for VS to operate into CPT year round. The classic mistake though would be to do so on a frequency of 3 a week, which does not give the flexibility that the higher yield passengers require of a daily rotation, so it's a bit of a Catch 22.
Edit : Corrected error.
Edit :
Just checked, and somewhat ironically I see that they are operating daily until late March and then three rotations a week until late April with the 340-300. It suits me .... but whether they will make money is another story. Hopefully they have made the right decisions.
Last edited by Capetonian; 5th Jan 2014 at 12:26.
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Calgary is crying out for a competitor - a great route which BA gave up years ago.
YVR is so popular but VS do summer only - YYZ try getting a J seat on AC? - full full full
Let's put it another way. Virgin initially piled into New York, Boston, Miami, San Francisco and Los Angeles where they stole a fair amount of point to point traffic from BA. BA then raised their game and later forays into Toronto, Chicago and Vancouver have not seen the same success. Virgin's customer's are loyal to a fault however they have failed to add to that core loyalty in the new markets they have entered I think.
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Maybe EI subbed in DEJ for another one of their 320s operating for Little Red due the original needing maintenance, or maybe the lease was up on one of them.
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