Virgin Atlantic
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Questions for those that know more than me on these matters...
The remedy slots that are to be operated domestically by EI on a wet lease, is there any restriction in their issuance that requires them to be used solely for EDI/ABZ indefinitely? Can they be "transformed" into long haul slots at a later date?
Also, is there any restriction on using a wet lease operator for these slots? Would Virgin be required to take them "in house" after a certain period of time?
The remedy slots that are to be operated domestically by EI on a wet lease, is there any restriction in their issuance that requires them to be used solely for EDI/ABZ indefinitely? Can they be "transformed" into long haul slots at a later date?
Also, is there any restriction on using a wet lease operator for these slots? Would Virgin be required to take them "in house" after a certain period of time?
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The slots cannot be converted to long-haul (apart from the routes mentioned in the EX decision - Cairo etc). They can only be used for the specified routes for six IATA seasons after which they can be used for other short-haul routes in Europe.
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Questions for those that know more than me on these matters...
The remedy slots that are to be operated domestically by EI on a wet lease, is there any restriction in their issuance that requires them to be used solely for EDI/ABZ indefinitely? Can they be "transformed" into long haul slots at a later date?
The remedy slots that are to be operated domestically by EI on a wet lease, is there any restriction in their issuance that requires them to be used solely for EDI/ABZ indefinitely? Can they be "transformed" into long haul slots at a later date?
1.3.1 As a general rule, the Slots obtained by the Prospective Entrant from IAG as a result of the Slot Release Procedure shall be used only to provide a Competitive Air Service on the Relevant City Pair for which the Prospective Entrant has requested them from IAG through the Slot Release Procedure. These Slots cannot be used on another city pair unless the Prospective Entrant has operated the Relevant City Pair for which these Slots have been transferred for a number of full consecutive IATA Seasons (“Utilisation Period”).
1.3.2 The Prospective Entrant will be deemed to have grandfathering rights for the Slots once appropriate use of the Slots has been made on the Relevant City Pair for the Utilisation Period. In this regard, once the Utilisation Period has elapsed, the Prospective Entrant will be entitled to use the Slots obtained on the basis of these Commitments exclusively to operate services on any European Short-haul City Pair or the Identified Long-haul City Pairs (“Grandfathering”).
1.3.2 The Prospective Entrant will be deemed to have grandfathering rights for the Slots once appropriate use of the Slots has been made on the Relevant City Pair for the Utilisation Period. In this regard, once the Utilisation Period has elapsed, the Prospective Entrant will be entitled to use the Slots obtained on the basis of these Commitments exclusively to operate services on any European Short-haul City Pair or the Identified Long-haul City Pairs (“Grandfathering”).
I don't think there's any restriction, and that makes sense in my view. The purpose of the remedies is to enforce competition to BA on short-haul routes. From the consumer's point of view, that competition is the same (i.e. a VS-marketed flight, with various other codeshares) whether or not the red A320 happens to have a tiny green shamrock beside the entry door.
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Sir Richard Branson makes £1m challenge to Willie Walsh - Telegraph
Seems Mr Walsh has touched a nerve! SRB wants to "bet a million pounds".
That sounds worrying desperate! He needs to rise above that sort of thing as ut sounds as though the good night doth protest too much. It's getting wierd......
Seems Mr Walsh has touched a nerve! SRB wants to "bet a million pounds".
That sounds worrying desperate! He needs to rise above that sort of thing as ut sounds as though the good night doth protest too much. It's getting wierd......
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Some possible reasons why Delta/AF-KLM might want to keep the VAA brand rather than just use slots (suppositions not facts):
- Brand loyalty - if brand ditched no guarantee pax will stay with Delta
- Higher yields route for route than Delta - use Delta leverage to reduce costs and therefore make VAA profitable
- Route rights to the East from LHR
- Airlines evolving into multi-brands like hotels - VAA brand could be rolled out elsewhere targetted at specifc demographic
- No deal with SRB without brand retention for at least five years (as per article)
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Somewhat lost in all the hoohaa, but Virgin have actually handed 3 of the remedy slot pairs back to BA.
The 3 MAN rotations are timetabled using existing Virgin slots that were leased out to other carriers.
6 EDI and 3 ABZ means 3 slots not taken up.
Now, i know they had to use them on limited routes and they didn't get Moscow rights and Cairo is f****d right now, Riyadh is not a good place to send an aircraft with Virgin emblazoned on it etc etc, but yet another example of a half hearted, half arsed effort from Virgin.
Gifted precious slots on a plate and hand a quarter of them back to the competition
The 3 MAN rotations are timetabled using existing Virgin slots that were leased out to other carriers.
6 EDI and 3 ABZ means 3 slots not taken up.
Now, i know they had to use them on limited routes and they didn't get Moscow rights and Cairo is f****d right now, Riyadh is not a good place to send an aircraft with Virgin emblazoned on it etc etc, but yet another example of a half hearted, half arsed effort from Virgin.
Gifted precious slots on a plate and hand a quarter of them back to the competition
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I'm not sure that VS have handed back the slots to BA. Presumably if VS don't intend to use the remaining slots then they go back to the slot trustee. The slot trustee should then re-offer them to other airlines who might be prepared to operate the relevant routes. If there is anyone, of course. At least that's how I assume it would work.
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Basilbrush - true to an extent. But if nobody else comes forward, back to BA the slots go. Now that another Carrier (Virgin) is starting Scottish to LHR, do you seriously think a third airline will come forward?
Moscow has been divvied our rights wise so can't see owt happening there.
Cairo is a basket case in waiting
Air France from Nice?........
I don't know about the rights on Riyadh, but unless Saudia are allowed more flights to UK, then thats a no go as well.
I'm pretty confident Virgin have just gifted these slots back to BA
Moscow has been divvied our rights wise so can't see owt happening there.
Cairo is a basket case in waiting
Air France from Nice?........
I don't know about the rights on Riyadh, but unless Saudia are allowed more flights to UK, then thats a no go as well.
I'm pretty confident Virgin have just gifted these slots back to BA
Paxing All Over The World
- Brand loyalty - if brand ditched no guarantee pax will stay with Delta
Having never travelled on Delta, I know little about them but one can say that there is no buzz of 'difference' or 'special' such as one hears about, say, Singapore or some of the new Middle East carriers.
I have travelled on United, North West (as they were) Eastern (as they were) and Continental (before Bethune and before it's sale) and recall most of the trips as being unmemorable and some downright horrible. One long haul on United in Y ensured that I did not repeat the mistake.
I have very deliberately never crossed the Pond on anything other than BA or VS and cannot imagine me deciding that Delta was the way to go without a lot of people I know telling me it was worth my money. Oh, and a Team with several carriers that are on my personal no-fly list?
Well I've crossed the pond on BA, Virgin, American and Delta.
I would rate the attentiveness and customer service to be best from the US carriers.
I'm afraid the British standards of service have fallen well below par over the past decade, and it shows.
Time to buck up Britain.
Not to mention that going eastbound I found Cathay, Malaysian and co surpass the lot!!
I would rate the attentiveness and customer service to be best from the US carriers.
I'm afraid the British standards of service have fallen well below par over the past decade, and it shows.
Time to buck up Britain.
Not to mention that going eastbound I found Cathay, Malaysian and co surpass the lot!!
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Somewhat lost in all the hoohaa, but Virgin have actually handed 3 of the remedy slot pairs back to BA.
The 3 MAN rotations are timetabled using existing Virgin slots that were leased out to other carriers.
6 EDI and 3 ABZ means 3 slots not taken up.
Now, i know they had to use them on limited routes and they didn't get Moscow rights and Cairo is f****d right now, Riyadh is not a good place to send an aircraft with Virgin emblazoned on it etc etc, but yet another example of a half hearted, half arsed effort from Virgin.
Gifted precious slots on a plate and hand a quarter of them back to the competition
The 3 MAN rotations are timetabled using existing Virgin slots that were leased out to other carriers.
6 EDI and 3 ABZ means 3 slots not taken up.
Now, i know they had to use them on limited routes and they didn't get Moscow rights and Cairo is f****d right now, Riyadh is not a good place to send an aircraft with Virgin emblazoned on it etc etc, but yet another example of a half hearted, half arsed effort from Virgin.
Gifted precious slots on a plate and hand a quarter of them back to the competition
So if VS had taken on the 3 additional slots you think they should have taken, they would have had to either start CAI/RUH/NCE or else increase frequency on EDI or ABZ beyond the existing levels (i.e. an additional aircraft). What do you suggest they should have done with these "slots on a plate"?
If you read the actual Commitments (link in my 10 Dec post above), you'll see (section 1.1.3 on p.173) that if VS operates EDI and ABZ for a year, it's entitled to apply for the remaining slots and use them for any European short-haul route. That seems a pretty reasonable deal to me.
If you want to have a pop at VS, fine, be my guest
, but maybe best to at least do so based on facts?
Willie wagers Branson a knee in the nuts . .
. . that Virgin won't survive.
Virgin Atlantic brand would be consigned to the history books if US giant Delta buys a 49pc stake
He suggested a £1m wager would not be fair as Sir Richard is a “billionaire banker”.
“I don’t think a million pounds would hurt him, I don’t have a million pounds so maybe a bet that would be as painful to him as it might be to me – so maybe something like a knee in the groin,” Mr Walsh said.
The IAG chief said he didn’t know Sir Richard very well but “on the limited occasions” he had met him he hasn’t seen anything that would “make me want to meet him again”.
He suggested a £1m wager would not be fair as Sir Richard is a “billionaire banker”.
“I don’t think a million pounds would hurt him, I don’t have a million pounds so maybe a bet that would be as painful to him as it might be to me – so maybe something like a knee in the groin,” Mr Walsh said.
The IAG chief said he didn’t know Sir Richard very well but “on the limited occasions” he had met him he hasn’t seen anything that would “make me want to meet him again”.
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49% Sold to Delta for $360.00 Million
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49% Sold to Delta for $360.00 Million
Delta seals deal for 49% of Virgin Atlantic | News | Travel Trade Gazette
Delta seals deal for 49% of Virgin Atlantic | News | Travel Trade Gazette
BBC News - Delta to buy Virgin Atlantic stake from Singapore Airlines
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they would have had to either start CAI/RUH/NCE
He needs to rise above that sort of thing as ut sounds as though the good night doth protest too much. It's getting wierd......
I just yawned when he said he "could have sued". For what? WW made a prediction based on a perfectly reasonable assessment of the market. Nothing actionable at all, unless we really have descended into a sue everyone for everything mentality! At least our American cousins have the 1st Amendment for that!
And then I love it when the Bearded one complains that BA have the most slots at Heathrow, our biggest airport.
Well Euston is our most important long haul railway station, and guess who has ALL the daytime long haul slots?
Pop over to St Pancras for a "rival" service from East Midlands Trains, and guess which company is behind them AND Virgin Rail? Yup, Stagecoach on both counts!
Hate to say it, but Sir Beardie is no longer the shwashbuckling renegade I grew up admiring. Just a very tired gamekeeper.