Virgin Atlantic
EI crew in VS uniforms - they have all been really excellent
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Virgin suspends Ghana flights
Up against a long-established BA daily service: failed to make an impact?
Last edited by Fairdealfrank; 7th Jun 2013 at 16:06.
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For now Lagos is.
But who knows what the future holds for even that route along with the long term future of Virgin Atlantic!
Other then the recent domestic routes which are actually flown by EI and the addition of a seasonal service to Vancouver plus the tie up with Delta but where is the expansion going to come from flying with their own metal?
Virgin also make a note of a lack of suitable slots at LHR when they have recently been leasing some to other airlines plus if they really wanted to purchase new slots then they have had every opportunity to do so just as other airlines have easily bought them recently.
Virgin Atlantic have discontinued the following routes Kingston, Mauritius, Nairobi, Port Harcourt and now Accra and I thought Africa was supposed to be booming and it is as I have seen it for myself but these so called emerging markets are where Virgin should be thinking of expansion especially destinations where BA dont currently serve.
I am surprised they have not tried a LHR to Kuala Lumper route where they could code share with Air Asia on their large network and make big inroads into the emerging markets of south east Asia.
It will be interesting to see if Virgin Atlantic ever do take up those A380s on order as I can not see where any future expansion is coming from unless they have them in a high density layout to Orlando.
Virgin need to make up their mind regarding joining an alliance and Skyteam being the most obvious because if they leave it any longer there will be no Virgin Atlantic as these routes need feed from both ends and without that the airline is doomed sure it has the future JV with Delta and hopefully the possible tie up with AF/KL but it will be interesting times ahead for Virgin.
But who knows what the future holds for even that route along with the long term future of Virgin Atlantic!
Other then the recent domestic routes which are actually flown by EI and the addition of a seasonal service to Vancouver plus the tie up with Delta but where is the expansion going to come from flying with their own metal?
Virgin also make a note of a lack of suitable slots at LHR when they have recently been leasing some to other airlines plus if they really wanted to purchase new slots then they have had every opportunity to do so just as other airlines have easily bought them recently.
Virgin Atlantic have discontinued the following routes Kingston, Mauritius, Nairobi, Port Harcourt and now Accra and I thought Africa was supposed to be booming and it is as I have seen it for myself but these so called emerging markets are where Virgin should be thinking of expansion especially destinations where BA dont currently serve.
I am surprised they have not tried a LHR to Kuala Lumper route where they could code share with Air Asia on their large network and make big inroads into the emerging markets of south east Asia.
It will be interesting to see if Virgin Atlantic ever do take up those A380s on order as I can not see where any future expansion is coming from unless they have them in a high density layout to Orlando.
Virgin need to make up their mind regarding joining an alliance and Skyteam being the most obvious because if they leave it any longer there will be no Virgin Atlantic as these routes need feed from both ends and without that the airline is doomed sure it has the future JV with Delta and hopefully the possible tie up with AF/KL but it will be interesting times ahead for Virgin.
I've always been a bit surprised that DL are happy to acquire only 49% of VS. What they need was 51% (OK 2% would have to be owned by AFKLM to get around nationality rules but that that could give them effective control). They could then parachute in some DL managers and hopefully made a difference. As it is I don't see much of a difference beyond the UA codeshare being replaced with a DL one. SQ is one of the world's best airlines but this didn't seem to rub off on VS. Will things be different with DL? Are there significant changes planned for the future?
Last edited by Peter47; 11th Jun 2013 at 05:44. Reason: Changed to present tense
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Quote: "I've always been a bit surprised that DL was happy to acquire only 49% of VS. What they needed was 51% (OK 2% would have had to be owned by AFKLM to get around nationality rules but that that could have given them effective control). They could then have parachuted in some DL managers and hopefully made a difference. As it is I don't see much of a difference beyond the UA codeshare being replaced with a DL one. SQ is one of the world's best airlines but this did not seem to rub off on VS. Will things be different with DL? Are there significant changes planned for the future?"
SQ weren't running VS and nor are DL. It's not like the relationship between LH and BD. Probably just as well, bearing in mind that there is, regretably, no longer any BD.
Could any potential AF/KL interest in VS be for LHR slots and little else?
AF tried longhaul from LHR when the EU-US open skies arrangements made it possible: it was not successful.
Why would Branson sell 2% to AF/KL anyway and turn himself into a minority shareholder?
SQ weren't running VS and nor are DL. It's not like the relationship between LH and BD. Probably just as well, bearing in mind that there is, regretably, no longer any BD.
Could any potential AF/KL interest in VS be for LHR slots and little else?
AF tried longhaul from LHR when the EU-US open skies arrangements made it possible: it was not successful.
Why would Branson sell 2% to AF/KL anyway and turn himself into a minority shareholder?
I agree with the last post (I've changed my post to the present tense given that the acquisition hasn't happened yet), but the question is should DL try to run VS akin to LH & BD? Branson wouldn't want that but I still wouldn't want to be a 49% shareholder in VS. My money could go the same was as SQ's.
On another issue, I'm a bit surprised that VS are happy to operate ORD & YVR on a seasonal basis. Doubtless the routes have a significant seasonal bias with higher yields in the summer, but I would have thought that they would not be able to make deals with large corporations and travel agencies so would miss out on high yield business business traffic. Any thoughts on this anyone?
On another issue, I'm a bit surprised that VS are happy to operate ORD & YVR on a seasonal basis. Doubtless the routes have a significant seasonal bias with higher yields in the summer, but I would have thought that they would not be able to make deals with large corporations and travel agencies so would miss out on high yield business business traffic. Any thoughts on this anyone?
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Quote: "I agree with the last post (I've changed my post to the present tense given that the acquisition hasn't happened yet), but the question is should DL try to run VS akin to LH & BD? Branson wouldn't want that but I still wouldn't want to be a 49% shareholder in VS. My money could go the same was as SQ's."
This is a good point about being a 49% shareholder in VS. DL must have some good reason because on the face of it, it does look as if DL would repeat the SQ experience.
As for VS being run in a LH/BD fashion: it didn't end well for BD!
Quote: "On another issue, I'm a bit surprised that VS are happy to operate ORD & YVR on a seasonal basis. Doubtless the routes have a significant seasonal bias with higher yields in the summer, but I would have thought that they would not be able to make deals with large corporations and travel agencies so would miss out on high yield business business traffic. Any thoughts on this anyone?"
Surprised there isn't enough premium traffic for all-year operations on these routes, particularly YVR, as there's only AC and BA on that route (once/day each).
Quote: "I am surprised by ORD - but to operate YVR year round they may need to abandon Cape Town, which uses two aircraft and slots in the winter."
Aren't aircraft being freed by the abandoned/suspended NBO and ACC, and by the switch to A330s on some routes?
This is a good point about being a 49% shareholder in VS. DL must have some good reason because on the face of it, it does look as if DL would repeat the SQ experience.
As for VS being run in a LH/BD fashion: it didn't end well for BD!
Quote: "On another issue, I'm a bit surprised that VS are happy to operate ORD & YVR on a seasonal basis. Doubtless the routes have a significant seasonal bias with higher yields in the summer, but I would have thought that they would not be able to make deals with large corporations and travel agencies so would miss out on high yield business business traffic. Any thoughts on this anyone?"
Surprised there isn't enough premium traffic for all-year operations on these routes, particularly YVR, as there's only AC and BA on that route (once/day each).
Quote: "I am surprised by ORD - but to operate YVR year round they may need to abandon Cape Town, which uses two aircraft and slots in the winter."
Aren't aircraft being freed by the abandoned/suspended NBO and ACC, and by the switch to A330s on some routes?
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Chicago was a turning point. Up to that point, Virgin had launched and maintained a good quality, year round point to point service against BA et al to EWR (a Continental hub), MIA ( an AA hub), BOS, LAX, IAD (a United hub) and SFO (another United hub). The first North American failure was YYZ which never came back, indeed VS are having a half hearted go at YVR now. ORD is a large point to point destination from London but VS couldn't make it pay year round, they failed to break through. With the exception of LAS, it was their last major US route launch.
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Other then the recent domestic routes which are actually flown by EI and the addition of a seasonal service to Vancouver plus the tie up with Delta but where is the expansion going to come from flying with their own metal?
Also MAN-LAS which is now seasonal, but makes profits during the busy months (hence why going seasonal like ORD, YVR etc).
And speaking of the seasonal routes, presumably now the DL codeshares have been announced they will still be able to sell ORD, YVR direct on the VS website with a VS code even when they are not flying the route themselves in the off season.
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How long is MAN LAS going to survive now TCX are up to twice weekly this year and 3 times a week next, plus undercutting Virgin by a fair chunk too??? 
And the farce of offering Man Las in their holidays shops throughout the winter, via LHR and then hopping over to LGW with a free taxi slash bus ride to boot is laughable, even the travel assistant wasn't sure you could do it in one day???
she did say at time they weren't expecting BA to axe MAN-LGW.
And the farce of offering Man Las in their holidays shops throughout the winter, via LHR and then hopping over to LGW with a free taxi slash bus ride to boot is laughable, even the travel assistant wasn't sure you could do it in one day???
she did say at time they weren't expecting BA to axe MAN-LGW.
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Some VS flights not available from Virgin Holidays?
Recently attempted to book a holiday to Barbados from MAN online using the Virgin Holidays website which told us that our holiday to Barbados flying from Manchester was not avialable when we wanted to travel but showed it was available three days earlier however with no premium economy. However when we contacted Virgin Holidays by phone a very helpful assistant booked our holiday for us on that day we wanted to travel and with premium economy as per our request. My concern is that the Virgin Holidays website is driving away customers due to it providing incorrect information. Virgin Holidays really need to get their act together on this.
I think that VS will be able to compete with TCX as they provide a more upmarket product that people are willing to pay for, but that assumes that passengers can book the available flights of course.
I think that VS will be able to compete with TCX as they provide a more upmarket product that people are willing to pay for, but that assumes that passengers can book the available flights of course.
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Quote: "Cancun and Mumbai also spring to mind.... both started last year."
Bombay was a restart, it had been suspended for a few months.
Quote: "How long is MAN LAS going to survive now TCX are up to twice weekly this year and 3 times a week next, plus undercutting Virgin by a fair chunk too???
And the farce of offering Man Las in their holidays shops throughout the winter, via LHR and then hopping over to LGW with a free taxi slash bus ride to boot is laughable, even the travel assistant wasn't sure you could do it in one day??? she did say at time they weren't expecting BA to axe MAN-LGW"
This is ridiculous!
If there is demand, can VS not do MAN-LAS direct now that they have the A330s? Or would they need B787s for this?
Have to say that it all comes back to the lack of capacity at LHR (it always does!). Adequate capacity at LHR would have allowed all BA and VS longhaul to use LHR if required, and for feeder flights from a sufficient number of UK airports.
Bombay was a restart, it had been suspended for a few months.
Quote: "How long is MAN LAS going to survive now TCX are up to twice weekly this year and 3 times a week next, plus undercutting Virgin by a fair chunk too???
And the farce of offering Man Las in their holidays shops throughout the winter, via LHR and then hopping over to LGW with a free taxi slash bus ride to boot is laughable, even the travel assistant wasn't sure you could do it in one day???
she did say at time they weren't expecting BA to axe MAN-LGW"This is ridiculous!
If there is demand, can VS not do MAN-LAS direct now that they have the A330s? Or would they need B787s for this?
Have to say that it all comes back to the lack of capacity at LHR (it always does!). Adequate capacity at LHR would have allowed all BA and VS longhaul to use LHR if required, and for feeder flights from a sufficient number of UK airports.
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Bombay was a restart, it had been suspended for a few months.
MAN-LAS had been a year round B744 which they tried on an A330 last winter. It seems with MAN going to be an all B744 operation, winter ops to LAS aren't profitable enough with the capacity being used on winter sun out of LGW.
Last edited by Skipness One Echo; 20th Jul 2013 at 14:45.