MANCHESTER - 8
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Anyone notice that our friendly BHX correspondent is no longer posting the movement figures now that they're going up
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pax/LH
rkenyon
Not familiar with the search facility then!
If you would have bothered to look the October 2010 pax,
which were up were posted by your friendly BHX correspondent.
Lufthansa
Anyone heard the frequency of the BMI A320 to Frankfurt -
I assume three a day
Pete
Not familiar with the search facility then!
If you would have bothered to look the October 2010 pax,
which were up were posted by your friendly BHX correspondent.
Lufthansa
Anyone heard the frequency of the BMI A320 to Frankfurt -
I assume three a day
Pete
Last edited by OltonPete; 17th Dec 2010 at 18:10.
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MAN Snow problems
Firstly can i say this is not a criticism of anybody.
Last evening we had approx 1-2 inch of snow which was quickly dealt with however this morning (10 hours later) we now have the situation where there are not enough stands for MANs planned arrivals.
Can anybody in the know say why this relatively small amount of snow is causing the delays. Just curious.
Last evening we had approx 1-2 inch of snow which was quickly dealt with however this morning (10 hours later) we now have the situation where there are not enough stands for MANs planned arrivals.
Can anybody in the know say why this relatively small amount of snow is causing the delays. Just curious.
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Took a number of diverts late last night. Manpower at the airport employed trying to keep the runway open. This resulted in a lack of stands being cleared, which i believe
they are trying to get on top of this morning.
Jubilee
they are trying to get on top of this morning.
Jubilee
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Hats off to all concerned at the airport today to help out the country in its hour of need to take numoerous London diversions, with more on the way.
Hwever, it begs the question why have they not done this before,particularly last year. SNOW has been bad here today but have still manage to cater for other diversions.
Hwever, it begs the question why have they not done this before,particularly last year. SNOW has been bad here today but have still manage to cater for other diversions.
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Blunt Instrument?
Yes, Manchester has done a great job again today ... full credit to all those involved, especially as MAN itself endured a heavy snowfall mid-morning.
However, I would urge MAG to take another look at its diversion planning; there does appear to be scope to make some mutually beneficial adjustments (tweaks) to the plan. The airport seems to have taken a liking to the use of an all-encompassing "blanket ban" on all except emergency diversions for prolonged periods (days at a time). I suggest that there is room to refine this approach and build in some discretion where it makes sense to do so.
I am fully aware (and supportive) of all the sound reasons why acceptance of diverted traffic cannot be a free-for-all ... protecting MAN services first, keeping sufficient taxiways and stands cleared, staff availability, etc. etc. However, the use of blanket-ban NOTAM's does appear unnecessarily restrictive, allowing for no middle way. I recall a typical frustrating occasion during the long ban period last January - a day when MAN was enjoying relatively free-flowing traffic, though a number of other UK airports were not. T3 had most (or all?) of its stands fully de-iced and operational, but the terminal was operating way under capacity due to the cancellation of a large swathe of the regular domestic programme. Most stands there were unoccupied. Two FlyBe Q400's and two Eastern Jetstream 41's requested diversion to MAN, but they were turned away due to the indiscriminate nature of the 'blunt-instrument' blanket diversion ban which offered no room for discretion (it was not a handling agent issue). A very disappointing outcome for all parties concerned.
During periods of mass-diversions, many airports will advise ATC of specific quotas, eg. "We can accept two widebodies and six narrowbodies of upto A320/B737 size." This system works well; the airports concerned do not become inundated with traffic they can't cope with, but retain the ability to accept smaller types after the "heavies" quota is reached. MAN appears to accept all comers for an hour or two, then issue a lengthy blanket ban on ALL further diverted traffic (emergencies excepted). Today presents a good example of this issue: MAN has done a fantastic job in accepting (nine?) widebody diversions this morning, then the "no divs accepted" NOTAM was issued. Well, no more heavies makes total sense. Understandable and sensible. But look at T3. Most of MAN's own domestic programme is cancelled today, along with several European services. So will we be turning away requests from Dash 8's, Jetstreams and bizjets again? Under the blunt-instrument NOTAM system, the answer to this question appears to be YES.
It is not my intention to ignite a heated debate here with accusations and counter-accusations flying around. I truly believe that the MAN team has done an outstanding job today and I applaud them all. But I would like to calmly put one reasoned question to MAG representatives here: why does this airport (apparently alone) embargo ALL diversions TFN, regardless of size, when its widebodied capability has been filled? Is there really no scope for use of common sense in the acceptance of smaller types requesting diversion? It is all good revenue for MAG, and good for relations with MAN stalwarts such as FlyBe and Jet2 who stand to benefit.
I would welcome reasoned, informed discussion in reply to the issues I raise here, but please keep it civilized ... no Mr. Angry type responses or kneejerk defence of "the cause". I am not critical of any of the staff who have been doing a super job, just suggesting that a tweak to the "ban everything" NOTAM's would be of benefit to MAG and the airlines alike. How about a NOTAM saying no more widebodies accepted until 21:00 (rather than everything). Is this too simple or am I missing something obvious here?
Best to all, and a big "well done" to the staff on the front line today.
SHED.
However, I would urge MAG to take another look at its diversion planning; there does appear to be scope to make some mutually beneficial adjustments (tweaks) to the plan. The airport seems to have taken a liking to the use of an all-encompassing "blanket ban" on all except emergency diversions for prolonged periods (days at a time). I suggest that there is room to refine this approach and build in some discretion where it makes sense to do so.
I am fully aware (and supportive) of all the sound reasons why acceptance of diverted traffic cannot be a free-for-all ... protecting MAN services first, keeping sufficient taxiways and stands cleared, staff availability, etc. etc. However, the use of blanket-ban NOTAM's does appear unnecessarily restrictive, allowing for no middle way. I recall a typical frustrating occasion during the long ban period last January - a day when MAN was enjoying relatively free-flowing traffic, though a number of other UK airports were not. T3 had most (or all?) of its stands fully de-iced and operational, but the terminal was operating way under capacity due to the cancellation of a large swathe of the regular domestic programme. Most stands there were unoccupied. Two FlyBe Q400's and two Eastern Jetstream 41's requested diversion to MAN, but they were turned away due to the indiscriminate nature of the 'blunt-instrument' blanket diversion ban which offered no room for discretion (it was not a handling agent issue). A very disappointing outcome for all parties concerned.
During periods of mass-diversions, many airports will advise ATC of specific quotas, eg. "We can accept two widebodies and six narrowbodies of upto A320/B737 size." This system works well; the airports concerned do not become inundated with traffic they can't cope with, but retain the ability to accept smaller types after the "heavies" quota is reached. MAN appears to accept all comers for an hour or two, then issue a lengthy blanket ban on ALL further diverted traffic (emergencies excepted). Today presents a good example of this issue: MAN has done a fantastic job in accepting (nine?) widebody diversions this morning, then the "no divs accepted" NOTAM was issued. Well, no more heavies makes total sense. Understandable and sensible. But look at T3. Most of MAN's own domestic programme is cancelled today, along with several European services. So will we be turning away requests from Dash 8's, Jetstreams and bizjets again? Under the blunt-instrument NOTAM system, the answer to this question appears to be YES.
It is not my intention to ignite a heated debate here with accusations and counter-accusations flying around. I truly believe that the MAN team has done an outstanding job today and I applaud them all. But I would like to calmly put one reasoned question to MAG representatives here: why does this airport (apparently alone) embargo ALL diversions TFN, regardless of size, when its widebodied capability has been filled? Is there really no scope for use of common sense in the acceptance of smaller types requesting diversion? It is all good revenue for MAG, and good for relations with MAN stalwarts such as FlyBe and Jet2 who stand to benefit.
I would welcome reasoned, informed discussion in reply to the issues I raise here, but please keep it civilized ... no Mr. Angry type responses or kneejerk defence of "the cause". I am not critical of any of the staff who have been doing a super job, just suggesting that a tweak to the "ban everything" NOTAM's would be of benefit to MAG and the airlines alike. How about a NOTAM saying no more widebodies accepted until 21:00 (rather than everything). Is this too simple or am I missing something obvious here?
Best to all, and a big "well done" to the staff on the front line today.
SHED.
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QTR73
Sorry to cut in, bit of a heated moment on the tarmac at the moment. QTR73 DOH-LGW has been diverted into MAN, just been allowed off stand 69 expecting to head to LGW and has reached halfway down D and then ATC has been told LGW is closed until at least 2000Z? Qatari pilot doesn't sound impressed and has told them that the crew time out at 1855Z and there is no backup crew to take over. Looks like he's heading back to stand now.
Not a good day is it? Looks like MAN are trying all they can with the current diversions and LGW has just shut them off after saying they could accept their slot initially.
Not a good day is it? Looks like MAN are trying all they can with the current diversions and LGW has just shut them off after saying they could accept their slot initially.
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Does anyone know what happened with the delta flight departing earlier?
it took ages to get on the runway, then did a slow taxi, down the runway and went back to the gate, meanwhile the QR did a go around, because of it, does anyone know what happened ?
it took ages to get on the runway, then did a slow taxi, down the runway and went back to the gate, meanwhile the QR did a go around, because of it, does anyone know what happened ?
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Manchester November Stats
rkenyon
here you go ................
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/m...November10.pdf
BHX5DME - your friendly BHX correspondent !
here you go ................
http://www.manchesterairport.co.uk/m...November10.pdf
BHX5DME - your friendly BHX correspondent !
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Was Manchester not able to take 2 American Airlines B777 bound for LHR from JFK and ORD earlier today. They diverted to Dublin and are due to depart for LHR tomorrow.
It seems to me that AA don't like to divert to airports which they don't fly from. They diverted to MAN, DUB, BRU (they all operate from) or was it they wasn't a runway long enough in the UK open to take the AA flights at the time.
It seems to me that AA don't like to divert to airports which they don't fly from. They diverted to MAN, DUB, BRU (they all operate from) or was it they wasn't a runway long enough in the UK open to take the AA flights at the time.
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@ManofMan I heard crew were timing out at 1855 so I'm quite surprised they were still on trying to plea to let them off. I know ATC were telling them they are entirely powerless in these situations, it's up to the agency they are with.
@j4ckosmate referring to DAL65? it did depart eventually about 1715ish (I think!) no idea what the problem was but ATCO on GND told them good luck this time
@j4ckosmate referring to DAL65? it did depart eventually about 1715ish (I think!) no idea what the problem was but ATCO on GND told them good luck this time
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Diversions
We've just got to bear in mnd that airports like MAN do not do any handling themselves. The managment team making decisions about whether or not to accept non-emergency diversions will be constatntly assessing the ability of the various handling agencies to cope with diverted flights. If they appear unable to do so then there's little point in having planeloads of irate people sitting on the apron unable to disembark or to get their bags.
Thread Starter
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Roverman
Shed's well argued point was that the blanket ban on all diversions for 24 hour periods should be more flexible dependant on the situation on the ground. If there is the space and resources available for some types of aircraft why not take them rather than one size fits all - the blunt instrument as he described it?
Seems that
" would be a change from this blunt instrument example quoted by Shed and would result in a more flexible policy; a win-win for everyone. And this is the way it used to be at MAN a few years ago, so nothing new.
Maybe things have changed already today as Libyan has sent in an extra A320 which was the LHR flight?
Anyway well done to everyone for keeping the operation going in difficult circumstances
Suzeman
Shed's well argued point was that the blanket ban on all diversions for 24 hour periods should be more flexible dependant on the situation on the ground. If there is the space and resources available for some types of aircraft why not take them rather than one size fits all - the blunt instrument as he described it?
Seems that
"managment team making decisions about whether or not to accept non-emergency diversions will be constatntly assessing the ability of the various handling agencies to cope with diverted flights
Maybe things have changed already today as Libyan has sent in an extra A320 which was the LHR flight?
Anyway well done to everyone for keeping the operation going in difficult circumstances
Suzeman
Last edited by Suzeman; 19th Dec 2010 at 13:32.
OLD RED DAMASK
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Went out through T1 on Thursday. Over an hour for security. Automatic boarding card readers closed off. Scanning cards at security of which there were only 4 "gates" open. Three Chnese in front of me, one left their boarding card. Told the security guy who said " It's not my job". Attitude stinks. Complained to manager who told me that the auto scanners are being pulled out. Why, how much did they cost??
She said they are short staffed and the airport won't hire anymore staff.
Manchester at times is just a joke!
She said they are short staffed and the airport won't hire anymore staff.
Manchester at times is just a joke!