MANCHESTER - 8
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Berlin
Hope it is more than just a slot request?
BHX had a BMI Baby flight, which even made it into the Tegal online
timetable with actual flight numbers.
However it never appeared on the baby website and never started.
easyjet did the same, BHX-SXF (along with MAD & MXP I believe) and
again they never started although Geneva did!
If it does happen I suspect some major timetable changes if it 14 aircraft
still for summer 2011.
Pete
BHX had a BMI Baby flight, which even made it into the Tegal online
timetable with actual flight numbers.
However it never appeared on the baby website and never started.
easyjet did the same, BHX-SXF (along with MAD & MXP I believe) and
again they never started although Geneva did!
If it does happen I suspect some major timetable changes if it 14 aircraft
still for summer 2011.
Pete
Join Date: Feb 2010
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well, its come from the german airports waiting list, and they are usually quite reliable (its where we first found out the SQ328 was going to route via MUC)
Also, Julian carr has said MAN will see city roite expansion, so maybe this is one of the new routes.
Also, Julian carr has said MAN will see city roite expansion, so maybe this is one of the new routes.
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The waiting list is reliable in so far as it means bmi baby are considering the route. But that doesn't mean they will start it. Maybe they will, maybe they won't. bmi baby will be keeping their options open
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I can cofirm Suzeman's response to a previous poster - the tunnels linking T2 to a future satellite were not constructed with the terminal and there are no current plans to build the satellite. As for capacity planning and spare capacity, MAN has the issue of being a 'Slot 1 -heavy' airport. Despite the decline from 22.5M to 17.5M pax, the overnight parking and early morning Slot 1 departures are still close to the 2006 peak levels, it is only after mid morning that the spare capacity really emerges. It has proved difficult to break this well-entrenched pattern of traffic, and so peak-hour capacity could very soon become an issue with any significant traffic growth. It's a conundrum for MAN, do you build more expensive capacity based upon Slot 1, or do you go all out to encourage more off-peak use, through charging mechanisms etc?.
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Jet2 Plans for MAN
JET2 has announced plans to base an additional aircraft at MAN in 2011. The extra B737 will take Jet2's MAN-based fleet upto nine aircraft. The company is aiming for a 20% increase in passenger throughput at MAN next year over the one million customers it expects to have served in 2010. Frequency increases are planned on routes to VCE, PSA, NCE and PMI. New destinations are listed as LCA, PFO and Brive (France).
Jet2 anticipates the creation of 143 jobs at MAN comprised of 25 pilots, 73 cabin crew and 45 ground staff. The latter are required following a decision to bring check-in and customer service operations in house.
A bit of good news there! Full details reported at UK Airport News.
SHED.
Jet2 anticipates the creation of 143 jobs at MAN comprised of 25 pilots, 73 cabin crew and 45 ground staff. The latter are required following a decision to bring check-in and customer service operations in house.
A bit of good news there! Full details reported at UK Airport News.
SHED.
Last edited by Shed-on-a-Pole; 23rd Nov 2010 at 11:53.
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You know what, for all the people that knock the age of LS aircraft, I think they have been brilliant for MAN.
We had that shakey period where they withdrew a lot of routes and a few aircraft, but they have since found their niche and are going from stregnth to stregnth, not just at MAN but the north in general.
The routes they offer are a good mix, without them MAN wouldnt have its link to BUD, FCO, TLV and Brieve to name a few. They are holding their own against the likes of Easyjet and bmi baby from the loco side, then TCX/TOM from their holiday side.
I hope in the future they look at MAD, VIE (they dont seem to be afraid of going after city routes) and possibly DME (after all, TLV is kind of out the box for them). I know DME is the wildest one out there, but, never say never, anything is possible!
We had that shakey period where they withdrew a lot of routes and a few aircraft, but they have since found their niche and are going from stregnth to stregnth, not just at MAN but the north in general.
The routes they offer are a good mix, without them MAN wouldnt have its link to BUD, FCO, TLV and Brieve to name a few. They are holding their own against the likes of Easyjet and bmi baby from the loco side, then TCX/TOM from their holiday side.
I hope in the future they look at MAD, VIE (they dont seem to be afraid of going after city routes) and possibly DME (after all, TLV is kind of out the box for them). I know DME is the wildest one out there, but, never say never, anything is possible!
For the time being I don't see any LCC launching MAN-Moscow. It is, reportedly, on Easyjet's radar which could see it launched from MAN mid term...probably after trying the route from LGW.
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It wouldnt be the first time that I have heard MAN-DME on Easyjets radar, but they seem reluctant to try it.
I believe rights are not an issue anymore (im sure MAN rights were given on the back of bmi being allowed access to Moscow from LHR).
Are the rights in place to operate from LGW? If not, then maybe Easy could try it from MAN with the rights in place, then try and apply for LGW if the market proves worthwhile?
Outside of this, AMM was rumoured, but how likely is it that MAN/LGW-AMM will actually see the light of day, and I wonder what easyjet will do about Lebannon asking for routes to MAN/STN/LTN? MAN has a route subsidy pot, and Lebannon apparantly will help out, so thats got to have taken a bit of the risk factor out, even if they do just try it out whilst the money is in place. They may be pleasantly surprised!
All of these out of the box ideas, just needs some guts to start them!
I believe rights are not an issue anymore (im sure MAN rights were given on the back of bmi being allowed access to Moscow from LHR).
Are the rights in place to operate from LGW? If not, then maybe Easy could try it from MAN with the rights in place, then try and apply for LGW if the market proves worthwhile?
Outside of this, AMM was rumoured, but how likely is it that MAN/LGW-AMM will actually see the light of day, and I wonder what easyjet will do about Lebannon asking for routes to MAN/STN/LTN? MAN has a route subsidy pot, and Lebannon apparantly will help out, so thats got to have taken a bit of the risk factor out, even if they do just try it out whilst the money is in place. They may be pleasantly surprised!
All of these out of the box ideas, just needs some guts to start them!
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All of these out of the box ideas, just needs some guts to start them!
Thinking out of the box is a lazy cliche. Companies will launch a route where there is percieved or past demand, the correct equipment, proper capitalisation and the right cost base in place. Jet2 have been succesful on the back of good engineers looking after older paid for aircraft coupled with low costs and good marketing, but in the real world, one bad season of "out the box" thinking and you're dead.
There was a good local airline who had a great name on short haul, came and set up bases in England, launched high profile long haul from multiple bases and lost all credibility soon after. The box is there for a reason you know! I'm not against risk taking but pitching up in the on / off war zone that is Lebanon and asking for a subsidy is not the best ground on which to lay future foundations.
Remember one bad season and you're dead, regardless of the ten previous succesful ones. Excalibur, flyGlobespan and even Laker collapsed after years of success.
The airliners.net patented magic dart board of route planning is not adding anything here. Get off the oche!
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There was a good local airline who had a great name on short haul, came and set up bases in England, launched high profile long haul from multiple bases and lost all credibility soon after
If you are referring to flyglobespan, the problem was not the routes it was on (apart from maybe Liverpool/Knock-New York), but the speed in which they expanded. They were adding routes quicker than they could add aircraft, and my example of routes bears no resembelence to the flyglobespan issue.
LS and easyjet are well in place to operate said routes from MAN. with a slight shuffle, they have the aircraft in place, the base set up behind it, and possible route subsidies to get off the ground.
Remember one bad season and you're dead, regardless of the ten previous succesful ones. Excalibur, flyGlobespan and even Laker collapsed after years of success.
Well, that could also be said for the situations outside the airline, not just the set up itself. There are too many ifs, but, maybes, not sures, it could happens in life. If we all took this attitude, nothing would ever get done!
The airliners.net patented magic dart board of route planning is not adding anything here. Get off the oche!
Its hardly a 'dartboard' of routes. LS already serve TLV from MAN, so are set up to operate mid haul routes, and with the route expanding, obviously have the know how of operating into the middle eastern countries.
Easyjet serve TLV so are also well placed to serve more middle eastern routes.
What you have to remember is, that a lot of euro routes are becomming saturated with competition and multiple frequencies, there will come a time when airlines like LS will have to look beyond the traditional bucket and spade routes, near city breaks.
Also, I know it sounds stupid, but having a holiday brand behind you could bebnefit. Tours around Jordan perhaps? After all, Thomson is starting MAN-eilat for holidays!
The only point I will give you is DME, Yes it is a bit of a wildcard, I aknowledge that, but maybe if someone brought a cheap ticket to DME, they would have another way to get to the middle east.
asking for a subsidy is not the best ground on which to lay future foundations
They wouldnt have to ask, its being offered. Also, I be a lot more routes than you think come about from subsidies. Look at Ryanair for example, once the deal ran out at MAN, they sped off into the sunset!
Also, Its not about handouts, but a small boost to get things off the ground whilst things get running.
I bet even your beloved BA has had its fair share of subsidies in its time!
If you are referring to flyglobespan, the problem was not the routes it was on (apart from maybe Liverpool/Knock-New York), but the speed in which they expanded. They were adding routes quicker than they could add aircraft, and my example of routes bears no resembelence to the flyglobespan issue.
LS and easyjet are well in place to operate said routes from MAN. with a slight shuffle, they have the aircraft in place, the base set up behind it, and possible route subsidies to get off the ground.
Remember one bad season and you're dead, regardless of the ten previous succesful ones. Excalibur, flyGlobespan and even Laker collapsed after years of success.
Well, that could also be said for the situations outside the airline, not just the set up itself. There are too many ifs, but, maybes, not sures, it could happens in life. If we all took this attitude, nothing would ever get done!
The airliners.net patented magic dart board of route planning is not adding anything here. Get off the oche!
Its hardly a 'dartboard' of routes. LS already serve TLV from MAN, so are set up to operate mid haul routes, and with the route expanding, obviously have the know how of operating into the middle eastern countries.
Easyjet serve TLV so are also well placed to serve more middle eastern routes.
What you have to remember is, that a lot of euro routes are becomming saturated with competition and multiple frequencies, there will come a time when airlines like LS will have to look beyond the traditional bucket and spade routes, near city breaks.
Also, I know it sounds stupid, but having a holiday brand behind you could bebnefit. Tours around Jordan perhaps? After all, Thomson is starting MAN-eilat for holidays!
The only point I will give you is DME, Yes it is a bit of a wildcard, I aknowledge that, but maybe if someone brought a cheap ticket to DME, they would have another way to get to the middle east.
asking for a subsidy is not the best ground on which to lay future foundations
They wouldnt have to ask, its being offered. Also, I be a lot more routes than you think come about from subsidies. Look at Ryanair for example, once the deal ran out at MAN, they sped off into the sunset!
Also, Its not about handouts, but a small boost to get things off the ground whilst things get running.
I bet even your beloved BA has had its fair share of subsidies in its time!
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Also, I know it sounds stupid, but having a holiday brand behind you could bebnefit. Tours around Jordan perhaps?
Jet 2 did it with Tel Aviv, but TLV had the advantage of VFR (Visting friends/relatives) traffic something that I imagine Jordan, Lebanon and most other places in the Middle East would lack from the UK
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Jet 2 did it with Tel Aviv, but TLV had the advantage of VFR (Visting friends/relatives) traffic something that I imagine Jordan, Lebanon and most other places in the Middle East would lack from the UK
I dont know, there are a lot of arabians living in the north west, Buts short of asking where everybody is from, Its hard to tell where they are from.
Like I say, Thomson/first choice are going to start Eilat holidays from Manchester (and London):
Direct Eilat flights in the pipeline | The Jewish Chronicle
Jordan is proabably the easiest to exploit. Its a stable country, and sights such as petra could be seen on a tour.
Its really not as mad cap as people think.
I dont know, there are a lot of arabians living in the north west, Buts short of asking where everybody is from, Its hard to tell where they are from.
Like I say, Thomson/first choice are going to start Eilat holidays from Manchester (and London):
Direct Eilat flights in the pipeline | The Jewish Chronicle
Jordan is proabably the easiest to exploit. Its a stable country, and sights such as petra could be seen on a tour.
Its really not as mad cap as people think.
To be fair, AMM, DME are probably routes that Easyjet will, quite naturally, look at from time to time and eventually they will be launched IMO. However, I think we're perhaps 6 months to a year before they would be launched and I still believe LGW will be the proving ground as it quite often the case.
If I am to believe what I have been told by someone responsible for route planning, U2 will be sticking with trusty old PMI for it's one and only new route for next Summer out of MAN. The problem with Easyjet is that bases are competing for aircraft as deliveries slow down and I think for the next year or two MAN will see some of the more "mundane" destinations such as PMI, LIS etc which are all equally as important to airline and airport alike.
If I am to believe what I have been told by someone responsible for route planning, U2 will be sticking with trusty old PMI for it's one and only new route for next Summer out of MAN. The problem with Easyjet is that bases are competing for aircraft as deliveries slow down and I think for the next year or two MAN will see some of the more "mundane" destinations such as PMI, LIS etc which are all equally as important to airline and airport alike.
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Ezy - Man - Pmi
U2 will be sticking with trusty old PMI for it's one and only new route for next Summer out of MAN.
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"mundane" destinations such as PMI, LIS etc
Any growth from Easyjet at MAN will be good. LIS is also less mundane. bmi baby seem to be a bit half hearted to LIS, with just a 2 weekly summer service. Being a city route, it needs to be at least 5 weekly to make it worth while.
Personally, routes I would like to see (and this is my opinion, not what they should do)
Madrid: Its an unserved route from MAN, according to the routeshop, its got a large number of pax potential. Currently, LPL has the route, and is doing well out of MAN pax too as there is no alternative at MAN. There are bases at both ends of the MAN-MAD route, so could be done with an a/c from either base.
Im sure if Easyjet split the route between LPL/MAN, not only will it retain its pax, as they will have the new alternative, but may attract more pax who choose not to use LPL.
Lisbon: As stated above, bmi baby on the route, but its hardly a valiant effort. Also, with a new base to be built at LIS, as Madrid, an a/c from either base could be used
Istanbul: I believe this was previously rumoured once before, and the whilst I appriciate a lot of TK pax are transferring, the route does well at MAN. TK could focus on its connections, whilst Easyjet could focus on the city breaks and O&D.
Tel Aviv: It seems to have done well for jet2 at MAN, its gone from 1 weekly to 3 weekly, so there could be scope for another carrier to offer say, a 3 weekly offering (maybe not daily, as I believe Friday is a very slow day for Isreali travellers).
Amman: Use easyjet holidays to promote tours, then fill the rest of the cabin with O&D traffic. Low frequency, say 2 weekly?
Any growth from Easyjet at MAN will be good. LIS is also less mundane. bmi baby seem to be a bit half hearted to LIS, with just a 2 weekly summer service. Being a city route, it needs to be at least 5 weekly to make it worth while.
Personally, routes I would like to see (and this is my opinion, not what they should do)
Madrid: Its an unserved route from MAN, according to the routeshop, its got a large number of pax potential. Currently, LPL has the route, and is doing well out of MAN pax too as there is no alternative at MAN. There are bases at both ends of the MAN-MAD route, so could be done with an a/c from either base.
Im sure if Easyjet split the route between LPL/MAN, not only will it retain its pax, as they will have the new alternative, but may attract more pax who choose not to use LPL.
Lisbon: As stated above, bmi baby on the route, but its hardly a valiant effort. Also, with a new base to be built at LIS, as Madrid, an a/c from either base could be used
Istanbul: I believe this was previously rumoured once before, and the whilst I appriciate a lot of TK pax are transferring, the route does well at MAN. TK could focus on its connections, whilst Easyjet could focus on the city breaks and O&D.
Tel Aviv: It seems to have done well for jet2 at MAN, its gone from 1 weekly to 3 weekly, so there could be scope for another carrier to offer say, a 3 weekly offering (maybe not daily, as I believe Friday is a very slow day for Isreali travellers).
Amman: Use easyjet holidays to promote tours, then fill the rest of the cabin with O&D traffic. Low frequency, say 2 weekly?
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Runway 05L/23R refurbishment
Plans announced for Runway 1 refurb starting straight after the Christmas break
Suzeman
Revamp to shut Manchester Airport runway at night for eight months - Manchester Evening News
Suzeman
Revamp to shut Manchester Airport runway at night for eight months - Manchester Evening News
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While it's really important for MAplc to concentrate on keeping incumbent airlines happy - they have alot to thank Easyjet for after all, they also need to be attracting other carriers.
MAD doesn't need EZY from MAN, it needs JK/IB/UX - the option needs to be there to connect into the hub. The same for LIS - MAplc needs to be wooing TAP back - maybe not daily, but certainly 4/weekly. There was no problem with profitability on the old NI route to LIS from MAN (which was 6/weekly), the problem was Air France and their interest in Portugalia at the time.
VIE - Lauda Air provided some great connections via VIE from MAN. Indeed, I remember using them to SYD back in 2002, for under £1000 return - BUSINESS CLASS! Those days won't be back, but OS are developing a good network from VIE which MAN could supplement nicely.
MAD doesn't need EZY from MAN, it needs JK/IB/UX - the option needs to be there to connect into the hub. The same for LIS - MAplc needs to be wooing TAP back - maybe not daily, but certainly 4/weekly. There was no problem with profitability on the old NI route to LIS from MAN (which was 6/weekly), the problem was Air France and their interest in Portugalia at the time.
VIE - Lauda Air provided some great connections via VIE from MAN. Indeed, I remember using them to SYD back in 2002, for under £1000 return - BUSINESS CLASS! Those days won't be back, but OS are developing a good network from VIE which MAN could supplement nicely.
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Well, with OS being in the LH group, and MAN being very favourable with LH, maybe OS could run VIE.
After all, there is a press release buried somewhere stating MAN could still get new routes from Lufthansa. With the major German hubs covered from MAN (barring SXF), where else is left for Lufthansa?
They have Milan MXP, VIE with OS, or possibly use bmi/bmiR/bmiBaby to expand routes?
In terms of MAD, it was widely hoped that the JV or even a BA hub at MAD would bear fruit for a MAN-MAD route, but alas nothing has come of that, as of yet.
Lisbon wise, TAP dont seem to be interested in MAN, so I guess it will be left to the Locos to fill the gap, no matter how much MAN could use the connections there...
After all, there is a press release buried somewhere stating MAN could still get new routes from Lufthansa. With the major German hubs covered from MAN (barring SXF), where else is left for Lufthansa?
They have Milan MXP, VIE with OS, or possibly use bmi/bmiR/bmiBaby to expand routes?
In terms of MAD, it was widely hoped that the JV or even a BA hub at MAD would bear fruit for a MAN-MAD route, but alas nothing has come of that, as of yet.
Lisbon wise, TAP dont seem to be interested in MAN, so I guess it will be left to the Locos to fill the gap, no matter how much MAN could use the connections there...
Vuelo, whilst connecting into a hub (which many slate BA for doing incidentally) is a good thing, TAP doing a 4 weekly service does practically sod all for connections and would become primarily O&D. If you are saying LIS needs TAP and MAD needs IB because you would rather see a legacy carrier then just say it. Theres no shame in it.
In the meantime if Easyjet were to offer MAD it's something that we couldn't turn our nose up at. The route would/should do perfectly well with just O&D and despite IB's Latin American strength, existing carriers can still serve those markets. Remember that IB's South American strengths are by far based on it's own O&D attributes.
As for EZY MAN-MAD. It would be great to see MAD back on MAN's departure boards. However simply splitting MAN/LPL-MAD wouldn't work unless there was some kind of frequency enhancement. i.e existing mid day/early aft from LPL supplemented by a morning and evening service from MAN. Otherwise an whole sale move of the route would be the best option.
In the meantime if Easyjet were to offer MAD it's something that we couldn't turn our nose up at. The route would/should do perfectly well with just O&D and despite IB's Latin American strength, existing carriers can still serve those markets. Remember that IB's South American strengths are by far based on it's own O&D attributes.
As for EZY MAN-MAD. It would be great to see MAD back on MAN's departure boards. However simply splitting MAN/LPL-MAD wouldn't work unless there was some kind of frequency enhancement. i.e existing mid day/early aft from LPL supplemented by a morning and evening service from MAN. Otherwise an whole sale move of the route would be the best option.
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In terms of easyjet running MAN-MAD, could they run 2 daily LPL and 2 daily MAN.
What about:
07:00 LPL dep (LPL based a/c), and 15:00 (LPL based a/c)
09:00 MAN dep (MAD based a/c) and 17:00 (MAN based a/c)
therfore, giving both cities a chance at the route, 4 seperate departure times so not to overlap too much.
Ive give MAN the later deps as the morning flight could utilise a MAD based fram, as seen as frames are an issue at MAN, and also LPL gets the bulk morning traffic whilst MAN gets the bulk evening traffic.
What about:
07:00 LPL dep (LPL based a/c), and 15:00 (LPL based a/c)
09:00 MAN dep (MAD based a/c) and 17:00 (MAN based a/c)
therfore, giving both cities a chance at the route, 4 seperate departure times so not to overlap too much.
Ive give MAN the later deps as the morning flight could utilise a MAD based fram, as seen as frames are an issue at MAN, and also LPL gets the bulk morning traffic whilst MAN gets the bulk evening traffic.