MANCHESTER - 8
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: MAN/Wherever
Age: 62
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Manchester Airport management are Pathetic.
Why do they continue to treat the public like pre-school children??
I refer to the spurious "eco-drive" announcement regarding the shutting down of a couple of escalators. So instead of a working escalator, we are met with the incredulous statement:- “Turning off this escalator for 12 months saves enough energy to make five million cups of tea.”
Bullsh*t. Why dont they just tell the truth? "Turning of this escalator for 12 months saves enough cash thereby increasing the shareholders coffers"?
It has absolutely nothing to do with any perceived "eco-drive". If they were serious about an economy drive, they could quite easily and permanently close the second runway as it is simply not needed, period.
They continue to keep it open for a couple of hours either end of the day in order to keep up the pretence that it is needed, pah!
Yours sincerely V. Meldrew.
Why do they continue to treat the public like pre-school children??
I refer to the spurious "eco-drive" announcement regarding the shutting down of a couple of escalators. So instead of a working escalator, we are met with the incredulous statement:- “Turning off this escalator for 12 months saves enough energy to make five million cups of tea.”
Bullsh*t. Why dont they just tell the truth? "Turning of this escalator for 12 months saves enough cash thereby increasing the shareholders coffers"?
It has absolutely nothing to do with any perceived "eco-drive". If they were serious about an economy drive, they could quite easily and permanently close the second runway as it is simply not needed, period.
They continue to keep it open for a couple of hours either end of the day in order to keep up the pretence that it is needed, pah!
Yours sincerely V. Meldrew.
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Manchester
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2nd runway is still needed but the flexible opening hours is useful to pacify the locals until such times that extended/permanent opening from 0630 to 2200 is needed. In a very idle moment, I looked at all the scheduled services on a Monday morning just to see what kind of connecting opportunities exist - there are some 98 scheduled service movements from 0630 to 0930; 44 of them between 0800 and 0859. Add in the charters and you can see where the need arises for the 2nd runway. Having said that, they may be able to cope with 50 movements on 1 runway but I'd prefer it to pegged at about 44 an hour maximum.
Join Date: Apr 2003
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OK, I apologise. My rant wasnt really about the second runway, I was all for it when it was proposed but really, it's hardly needed. No, my rant was more about the stupid analogies we are fed i.e. the one regarding the escalators or ones like such and such a building is equal to 52.5 football pitches or such and such a ship is as long as 329 london buses.....you get the idea!!
Why cant they treat as as adults and tell us how big it is rather than dumbing it down and equating it to some stupid analogy??
Why cant they treat as as adults and tell us how big it is rather than dumbing it down and equating it to some stupid analogy??
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: The foot of Mt. Belzoni.
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In 1995, the plan was for R2, (Runway 2), to be open 0620-2200 Local.
The total volume of Kerosene which has been wasted due to its non-availabilty, (extended routings/holding etc) is a bloody disgrace, especially coming from a local-council type organization which claims to be so environmentally aware.
The total volume of Kerosene which has been wasted due to its non-availabilty, (extended routings/holding etc) is a bloody disgrace, especially coming from a local-council type organization which claims to be so environmentally aware.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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But, ironically, it's the local council (Macclesfield) that have decided the only way they'd accept the 2nd runway is if the resident's environment has to be protected from "too much noise pollution" hence the restrictions put in place, so any harm caused by excessive CO2 and fuel burn should be placed straight at that council.
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Superspotter,
turning off that escalator is a great idea.
It saves a great amount of Jet A1.
It's non-availability causes fat businessmen and overweight chavs (the airport's predominant clientele) to climb stairs, therefore losing body-mass.
Over 12 months these little weight losses all add up to reduced take-off weights.
Turn off the moving walkways too. In fact, remove them completely.
Have another cup of tea!
turning off that escalator is a great idea.
It saves a great amount of Jet A1.
It's non-availability causes fat businessmen and overweight chavs (the airport's predominant clientele) to climb stairs, therefore losing body-mass.
Over 12 months these little weight losses all add up to reduced take-off weights.
Turn off the moving walkways too. In fact, remove them completely.
Have another cup of tea!
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Ringwayman.
Due to advances in engine technology, EGCC creates less noise with 2 runways than it did 20 years ago with one. Macclesfield is ony affected by noise in that if R2 was open more often, there would be less holding at DAYNE, and more expeditious 05L climb profiles.
Due to advances in engine technology, EGCC creates less noise with 2 runways than it did 20 years ago with one. Macclesfield is ony affected by noise in that if R2 was open more often, there would be less holding at DAYNE, and more expeditious 05L climb profiles.
My eyes rolled when i saw that smug notice attached to an escalator. If they really gave a toss about environmental isses, they would have installed solar water heaters (yes they do work on cloudy days) on all that south facing roof space. Problem is that would involve long term investment with payback over several years and the beancounters are not too keen on that.
Also, what is the point of pretending to save the planet when they sell hundreds of thousands of plastic security bags in round plastic containers which go straight in the bin.
Also, what is the point of pretending to save the planet when they sell hundreds of thousands of plastic security bags in round plastic containers which go straight in the bin.
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Either the back of a sim, or wherever Crewing send me.
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It's non-availability causes fat businessmen and overweight chavs (the airport's predominant clientele) to climb stairs, therefore losing body-mass.
Over 12 months these little weight losses all add up to reduced take-off weights.Turn off the moving walkways too. In fact, remove them completely.
Over 12 months these little weight losses all add up to reduced take-off weights.Turn off the moving walkways too. In fact, remove them completely.
!!
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: manchester
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People having to use their legs, what is the world comming to???!!! May I suggest we all get over it, the whole travelator debate is boring, and has been for the last 2-3 years its been rumbling on!
Anyway, more about the Virgin lounge, its deffinatly a V-room:
VIRGIN Holidays are sharing the love and building a dedicated V-Room lounge for Manchester flyers. The first V-Room at Gatwick has proved a huge hit with Virgin Holidays customers with just £20 buying you a bit of peace and quiet, bacon sarnies, breakfast and unlimited tea, coffee and juices as well as kiddie play area and entertainment zone. Opening in July 2011, it will be located in Terminal 2 and will take up to 100 guests with areas for children and teens. See virginholidays.co.uk/vroom.
Anyway, more about the Virgin lounge, its deffinatly a V-room:
VIRGIN Holidays are sharing the love and building a dedicated V-Room lounge for Manchester flyers. The first V-Room at Gatwick has proved a huge hit with Virgin Holidays customers with just £20 buying you a bit of peace and quiet, bacon sarnies, breakfast and unlimited tea, coffee and juices as well as kiddie play area and entertainment zone. Opening in July 2011, it will be located in Terminal 2 and will take up to 100 guests with areas for children and teens. See virginholidays.co.uk/vroom.
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Manchester
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Escalator / Travelator Farce at Manchester
People having to use their legs ...
Yes, we can make a joke of all this from the comfort of our homes. But bear in mind that some Manchester Airport customers are elderly, frail or partially disabled. The airport is not exclusively used by young, fit athletes. To be fit for purpose, the airport must cater for the needs of the whole community. Some customers travel with heavy luggage and/or young children. Others may be exhausted, disorientated and jetlagged following the longest journey of their life. Is it too much to ask that the principal gateway airport serving Northern England ... for some travelers their first impression of this country ... can actually switch on its escalators and travelators? As I suggested earlier, if cost is such a concern then fit motion sensors to the things. The technology has been around for long enough.
I can tell you from personal experience having arrived back at T2 in the early hours to find all the (blue-tube) travelators inactive ... the response from other customers is not positive. "Does anything work in this dump," they said, "what a ****ing sh**hole!" Strangely enough, I didn't overhear any comments to the effect that MAN's management was wonderful for trying to save the planet.
This attitude of penny-pinching in the name of environmentalism makes MAN look like Hicksville Municipal. It makes for a shameful introduction to a region of England which deserves far better. I have in the past been accused by certain posters on here of being a Manchester "fanboy" for defending certain MAG decisions. Well, I will defend decisions which are worthy of defence, but I will also offer negative criticism when it is richly deserved.
This long-running escalator / travelator saga makes Manchester a laughing-stock, especially when linked with the sanctimonious claim that the decisions are driven by environmental concerns. MAG management: you are NOT amateurs (although this farce does rather give that impression). Get this sorted out. Fit motion sensors to your escalators and travelators ASAP. When nobody is using them they will be idle. German airports have routinely used this system for years ... its hardly a radical idea. If you don't put a blanket ban on accepting any diversions again this Winter, you might just raise enough extra revenue to pay for the installation costs (and have plenty of change to spare).
MAG managers: time to show us some positive management skills!
SHED.
Yes, we can make a joke of all this from the comfort of our homes. But bear in mind that some Manchester Airport customers are elderly, frail or partially disabled. The airport is not exclusively used by young, fit athletes. To be fit for purpose, the airport must cater for the needs of the whole community. Some customers travel with heavy luggage and/or young children. Others may be exhausted, disorientated and jetlagged following the longest journey of their life. Is it too much to ask that the principal gateway airport serving Northern England ... for some travelers their first impression of this country ... can actually switch on its escalators and travelators? As I suggested earlier, if cost is such a concern then fit motion sensors to the things. The technology has been around for long enough.
I can tell you from personal experience having arrived back at T2 in the early hours to find all the (blue-tube) travelators inactive ... the response from other customers is not positive. "Does anything work in this dump," they said, "what a ****ing sh**hole!" Strangely enough, I didn't overhear any comments to the effect that MAN's management was wonderful for trying to save the planet.
This attitude of penny-pinching in the name of environmentalism makes MAN look like Hicksville Municipal. It makes for a shameful introduction to a region of England which deserves far better. I have in the past been accused by certain posters on here of being a Manchester "fanboy" for defending certain MAG decisions. Well, I will defend decisions which are worthy of defence, but I will also offer negative criticism when it is richly deserved.
This long-running escalator / travelator saga makes Manchester a laughing-stock, especially when linked with the sanctimonious claim that the decisions are driven by environmental concerns. MAG management: you are NOT amateurs (although this farce does rather give that impression). Get this sorted out. Fit motion sensors to your escalators and travelators ASAP. When nobody is using them they will be idle. German airports have routinely used this system for years ... its hardly a radical idea. If you don't put a blanket ban on accepting any diversions again this Winter, you might just raise enough extra revenue to pay for the installation costs (and have plenty of change to spare).
MAG managers: time to show us some positive management skills!
SHED.
I think the travelstor "gate" scandal is way overblown.I've travelled extensively and rarely have I seen the travelators used to their full potential. IMO, and it is only my opinion, if you need travelators then you need special assistance.
The does anything "Fu****g work in this dump comments can only come from the "Chav" pax and that comes from a person who usually Hayes
the slating of the class of passenger we call the scally.
Again this comes down to the civic pride of a few who get their wet dreams from a moving walkway. Despite all that I actually agree that it's a shame the travelators are switched off but my views differ in that I would have ripped the bloody things out. They are rArely truly needed so what is the point?
Again it all comes down to the Alan Wicker wannabes who transit Changi once in their lives and expect MAN to be the same regardless of the context in which MAN operates.
The does anything "Fu****g work in this dump comments can only come from the "Chav" pax and that comes from a person who usually Hayes
the slating of the class of passenger we call the scally.
Again this comes down to the civic pride of a few who get their wet dreams from a moving walkway. Despite all that I actually agree that it's a shame the travelators are switched off but my views differ in that I would have ripped the bloody things out. They are rArely truly needed so what is the point?
Again it all comes down to the Alan Wicker wannabes who transit Changi once in their lives and expect MAN to be the same regardless of the context in which MAN operates.
Join Date: Feb 2010
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But bear in mind that some Manchester Airport customers are elderly, frail or partially disabled.
Then if this is such an issue, either: Get special assistance, it is readily available. Dont forget, you are still stood up on the escalators, it doesnt actually save you from 'walking'.
Is it too much to ask that the principal gateway airport serving Northern England ... for some travelers their first impression of this country ... can actually switch on its escalators and travelators?
Id very much doubt travellers to the UK would base the lack of a working travelator a reason not to visit the country.
"Does anything work in this dump," they said, "what a ****ing sh**hole!"
I have rarely heard anyone say that. Id doubt it was a business traveller either, more likely the big family bucket and spade fliers who have paid £150pp for their holiday anyway.
This attitude of penny-pinching in the name of environmentalism makes MAN look like Hicksville Municipal. It makes for a shameful introduction to a region of England which deserves far better.
Its a flippin travelator! So what, you have to walk a few extra feet when you arrive. After being sat down between 2-10 hours, surely it is a welcome break and gets your blood flowing again.
Put it this way, if someone came to visit here form say, Australia, had a good tour of the UK, saw sights they will never see again, saw family they will not see for a long time again, that the highlight of their holiday was the 'lack of travelators in the airport'?
You really are putting too much emphasis on this, IT DOESNT MATTER!!!
Even when the travelators are working, I see most people opting to walk around them anyway!
Please, the situation isnt going to change, and in reality its only a few who actually care about a working travelator, so can we please just move on!
Then if this is such an issue, either: Get special assistance, it is readily available. Dont forget, you are still stood up on the escalators, it doesnt actually save you from 'walking'.
Is it too much to ask that the principal gateway airport serving Northern England ... for some travelers their first impression of this country ... can actually switch on its escalators and travelators?
Id very much doubt travellers to the UK would base the lack of a working travelator a reason not to visit the country.
"Does anything work in this dump," they said, "what a ****ing sh**hole!"
I have rarely heard anyone say that. Id doubt it was a business traveller either, more likely the big family bucket and spade fliers who have paid £150pp for their holiday anyway.
This attitude of penny-pinching in the name of environmentalism makes MAN look like Hicksville Municipal. It makes for a shameful introduction to a region of England which deserves far better.
Its a flippin travelator! So what, you have to walk a few extra feet when you arrive. After being sat down between 2-10 hours, surely it is a welcome break and gets your blood flowing again.
Put it this way, if someone came to visit here form say, Australia, had a good tour of the UK, saw sights they will never see again, saw family they will not see for a long time again, that the highlight of their holiday was the 'lack of travelators in the airport'?
You really are putting too much emphasis on this, IT DOESNT MATTER!!!
Even when the travelators are working, I see most people opting to walk around them anyway!
Please, the situation isnt going to change, and in reality its only a few who actually care about a working travelator, so can we please just move on!
"Maybe they should close half of all the check-in desks too and save on the wear and tear of the conveyor belts.........oh, they already do that"
What an absolute pile of c"*p as someone involved in the Airport Systems and Allocation i suggest you go and do what your title suggests and SPOT as you know bu**er all about how an airport runs.
What an absolute pile of c"*p as someone involved in the Airport Systems and Allocation i suggest you go and do what your title suggests and SPOT as you know bu**er all about how an airport runs.
Join Date: Sep 2010
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My Goodness - I feel like I'm in nursery school again with all this bickering! Post after post of it!
You're all as bad as each other. If it's "just a travellator" then let it be! We're all entitled to our opinion on whether it has positive or negative affects on the airport and it's users.
Different personal circumstances ensue different opinions. For some it may just be a worthless piece of equipment - for others an extremely handy tool to help them get from A to B.
Have a bit of respect. I don't think that's unfair to ask.
eJJ
You're all as bad as each other. If it's "just a travellator" then let it be! We're all entitled to our opinion on whether it has positive or negative affects on the airport and it's users.
Different personal circumstances ensue different opinions. For some it may just be a worthless piece of equipment - for others an extremely handy tool to help them get from A to B.
Have a bit of respect. I don't think that's unfair to ask.
eJJ
Join Date: Feb 2004
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Escalators - MAG could be speaking with Ottis and Kone as they have energy saving systems to stop Travelators/Escalators when not used/occupied after a variable time.
The problem of these systems are in the reactions of organic life forms.
Psychologically when we approach such static machines and that are fitted next to a wider normal walkway, evidence suggests people at a subconscious level assume they are broken and they continue down the normal walkway rather than walking on the the Travelator.
Interestedly if a single person makes the decision to walk onto the Travelator and it starts up individuals directly behind also follow suit.
Frankly you might a well simply switch the things OFF at times of low use -Just a fact.
Or even rip the things right out ,make an even wider walk way and perhaps add a few well placed seats !
The problem of these systems are in the reactions of organic life forms.
Psychologically when we approach such static machines and that are fitted next to a wider normal walkway, evidence suggests people at a subconscious level assume they are broken and they continue down the normal walkway rather than walking on the the Travelator.
Interestedly if a single person makes the decision to walk onto the Travelator and it starts up individuals directly behind also follow suit.
Frankly you might a well simply switch the things OFF at times of low use -Just a fact.
Or even rip the things right out ,make an even wider walk way and perhaps add a few well placed seats !
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Hi wanna be there / all
I must respectfully disagree with you on this occasion. Let's keep things in proportion: my earlier posting does not imply that the travelator / escalator issue is amongst the most important facing society today, of course not. Nor do I suggest that any rational person would judge an entire region based upon afew non-functional escalators (although this does significantly influence the first impression). But it is still a relevant issue - especially as part of a discussion on the topic of customer service at Manchester Airport. An issue which can be easily resolved with a straightforward solution (fitting motion sensors). And that solution offers the benefit of reducing energy costs as a bonus.
I take your point that this issue has become boring. But do you not recognize why it has become boring? It is because this issue has been left unresolved at Manchester Airport for YEARS, and therefore returns to haunt us on a regular basis. And it seems that MAG management is now intent on a course of action which will make the problem worse.
The 'PP' element of the PPRuNe title stands for "Professional Pilots". All working professional pilots must pass a regular class 1 medical examination. Likewise ATC staff, airport firefighters and many other regular contributors to this forum. It can be difficult for some of those who enjoy excellent health to empathize with the needs of others who do not; it is understandable. However, I cannot make excuses for those who put forward the playground bully approach: let the fat *******s walk - it'll do them good! They're probably chavs anyway etc. The "I'm alright, Jack!" approach. The airport's customers, even those you may consider beneath your social status, deserve a fit-for-purpose airport experience ... which, incidentally, they pay for as a component of their airfare.
I have in the past traveled with an elderly passenger. I have also accompanied a passenger who had a broken leg. Neither of these were people who apparently 'deserve' contempt from certain PPRuNe readers for eating too much or exercising too little in their prime. Real people have to deal with real problems, and the airport's passenger infrastructure is designed to offer solutions to those. Let's just make sure the equipment works. If the alternative in each case is to take up wanna be there's suggestion to "get special assistance, it is readily available", the ultimate cost to the airport will be much higher as a greater number of marginal customers realize that they cannot cope without special assistance after all. However, maybe providing individual assistance to all those less-able customers instead of letting pre-installed technology do the job could greatly assist in reducing Wythenshawe's unemployment problem!
We will all become elderly one day (at least that is my ardent hope for all my fellow readers of this forum!). We may even break a limb or two along the way. In my case, I intend to keep right on traveling regardless - for as long as I am able to do so. I hope that most of you will have the same positive attitude as you age, and in the meantime not condemn those who have already reached an advanced age, yet keep supporting our airport with their business anyway. Good for them, I say! For us on these boards to take the attitude: "let the lazy ******s walk a bit ... it'll do them good" is actually pretty shameful when you think about it.
Like it or not, elderly people, infirm people, jetlagged people, and yes - even people who eat too many pies, are our customers too. They deserve and pay for a level of service which Manchester Airport should be proud to offer. Old and fat people pay our wages too - their repeat-business must be encouraged if the airport is to thrive. We need to remember that at all times. There is no place for schadenfreude and sniggering. The airport absolutely *needs* to provide a travel experience which all customers - real people, not just athletes - will CHOOSE to book over and over again. Manchester Airport's customers deserve the best service which can reasonably be provided for the fee they pay, and that does include working escalators and travelators.
SHED.
I must respectfully disagree with you on this occasion. Let's keep things in proportion: my earlier posting does not imply that the travelator / escalator issue is amongst the most important facing society today, of course not. Nor do I suggest that any rational person would judge an entire region based upon afew non-functional escalators (although this does significantly influence the first impression). But it is still a relevant issue - especially as part of a discussion on the topic of customer service at Manchester Airport. An issue which can be easily resolved with a straightforward solution (fitting motion sensors). And that solution offers the benefit of reducing energy costs as a bonus.
I take your point that this issue has become boring. But do you not recognize why it has become boring? It is because this issue has been left unresolved at Manchester Airport for YEARS, and therefore returns to haunt us on a regular basis. And it seems that MAG management is now intent on a course of action which will make the problem worse.
The 'PP' element of the PPRuNe title stands for "Professional Pilots". All working professional pilots must pass a regular class 1 medical examination. Likewise ATC staff, airport firefighters and many other regular contributors to this forum. It can be difficult for some of those who enjoy excellent health to empathize with the needs of others who do not; it is understandable. However, I cannot make excuses for those who put forward the playground bully approach: let the fat *******s walk - it'll do them good! They're probably chavs anyway etc. The "I'm alright, Jack!" approach. The airport's customers, even those you may consider beneath your social status, deserve a fit-for-purpose airport experience ... which, incidentally, they pay for as a component of their airfare.
I have in the past traveled with an elderly passenger. I have also accompanied a passenger who had a broken leg. Neither of these were people who apparently 'deserve' contempt from certain PPRuNe readers for eating too much or exercising too little in their prime. Real people have to deal with real problems, and the airport's passenger infrastructure is designed to offer solutions to those. Let's just make sure the equipment works. If the alternative in each case is to take up wanna be there's suggestion to "get special assistance, it is readily available", the ultimate cost to the airport will be much higher as a greater number of marginal customers realize that they cannot cope without special assistance after all. However, maybe providing individual assistance to all those less-able customers instead of letting pre-installed technology do the job could greatly assist in reducing Wythenshawe's unemployment problem!
We will all become elderly one day (at least that is my ardent hope for all my fellow readers of this forum!). We may even break a limb or two along the way. In my case, I intend to keep right on traveling regardless - for as long as I am able to do so. I hope that most of you will have the same positive attitude as you age, and in the meantime not condemn those who have already reached an advanced age, yet keep supporting our airport with their business anyway. Good for them, I say! For us on these boards to take the attitude: "let the lazy ******s walk a bit ... it'll do them good" is actually pretty shameful when you think about it.
Like it or not, elderly people, infirm people, jetlagged people, and yes - even people who eat too many pies, are our customers too. They deserve and pay for a level of service which Manchester Airport should be proud to offer. Old and fat people pay our wages too - their repeat-business must be encouraged if the airport is to thrive. We need to remember that at all times. There is no place for schadenfreude and sniggering. The airport absolutely *needs* to provide a travel experience which all customers - real people, not just athletes - will CHOOSE to book over and over again. Manchester Airport's customers deserve the best service which can reasonably be provided for the fee they pay, and that does include working escalators and travelators.
SHED.