Thomson Airways
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Wow! The 757s to be replaced by the 738! quite a drop in capacity on short-medium haul from 235 to 189? Thats quite a drop and what a turn around as it was the earlier 737-200 which Britannia replaced with the much larger 757, citing a much higher demand in seat capacity for the future of short haul. Also what about the peak Palmas in summer, TFS in winter, will these one day be 787 routes, the 767 was always needed here for these runs due to needing a large capacity aircraft for the PMI and TFS etc. Will these only see 189 seat aircraft in the future? huge drop from a 757/767 to a 738? Same as tui did at Hapag, dropped the huge 310 for 738 short haul
Join Date: Mar 2008
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Those plans for 757 capacity were based on needs in the late 1980's. A lot has changed since then. A 737-800 with winglets and 189 seats is much more economical than a 757 even with 235, so I wouldnt get too excited about it. Thanks to FR etc "peak Palmas and Winter TFS" are a shadow of their former selfs.
Last edited by CabinCrewe; 13th Jan 2012 at 20:54.
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Then why do Tom still use 767 for TFS in winter, also LPA ACE and let alone 757s there everywhere. In summer the 767s are king still on the PMI, IBZ, CFU etc. it would take almost 2 738s to replace two 326 config 763s on these routes. I think an all 738 for short medium hall was the wrong way to go, the major charter destinations could take a wide bodied aircraft, why send two aircraft, two flightcrew, 2 sets of cabin crew when you can stick over 300 in a 767 send it somewhere easy to fill MAN-TFS or LPA in winter would be an example.
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Tom don't use a 767 on sh/mh during the winter, there are 6 767 based in the uk this winter operating long haul routes, the other 4 are based in Scandinavia doing work for tuifly Nordic.
Last summer is was very rare for the 767 to operate to PMI ex lgw, it was more likely to operate dlm, rho or similar.
Last summer is was very rare for the 767 to operate to PMI ex lgw, it was more likely to operate dlm, rho or similar.
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Then why do Tom still use 767 for TFS in winter, also LPA ACE and let alone 757s there everywhere. In summer the 767s are king still on the PMI, IBZ, CFU etc. it would take almost 2 738s to replace two 326 config 763s on these routes. I think an all 738 for short medium hall was the wrong way to go, the major charter destinations could take a wide bodied aircraft, why send two aircraft, two flightcrew, 2 sets of cabin crew when you can stick over 300 in a 767 send it somewhere easy to fill MAN-TFS or LPA in winter would be an example.
People also require more flexibility with their holiday stays now... This is why more frequency per week rather than capacity per flight is the way Thomson and the likes have been heading for a while now. For example, at many of their regional airports you can choose a day to fly to PMI atleast 6 out of the 7 days a week during the summer. This is just one example of the changing needs from the customer to which airlines have had to respond - thus needing smaller more economical aircraft.
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I agree with much if what cazza fly says, very well summarised the changing needs of the lisure market, however, Im not sure for a company as large as Thomson in the UK, a sole single bodied 738 fleet will be sufficient cpacity for those slot contrained LGW departures like a Summer RHO or a winter Canaries. I recognise the need for increased frequencies, certainly and it seems to make great sense for Thomson to opt for the economical 738 for the main part of the fleet but I cant help feel maybe some larger, even slightly larger 737-900ERs, would be a good mix, commonality but with almost the same cpacity of the 757 well more seats than an all 738 certainly. Even I could see a small need for a larger still wide body for those peak destinations, RHO is a good example, these detsinations are still largely typical package destinations without a need for daily departures but a need for a once or twice a week larger aircraft especially from MAN, and LGW. I think an all 738 much too limiting for a company the size of Thomson who still needs, even in face of changing requirements, to be able to offer its tour operating arms a larger aircraft for short medium haul at peak periods at any slot restrained airports.
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You all seem to forget that nothing is stopping TOM using the B787 on European routes during the summer, when they finally arrive.
The fact is TOM l believe is going to use them mostly short-haul when they arrive, to allow crews to get trained up on them.
The fact is TOM l believe is going to use them mostly short-haul when they arrive, to allow crews to get trained up on them.
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Not at all, I just thought that the 787 was as a prestige aircraft for Thomson, it was mainly intended for long haul and was going to be configured with a layout with seats with more pitch so making the aircraft more advantageous for long haul work. As is usual with airlines, I know the 787 will probably do some short flights to allow crew familiarisation but I doubt whether the 787s will be used for short haul or Canaries work long term. They are too high prestige for Canaries runs and I just think an all 737-800 fleet will be restricting in the long term for Thomson. How about some 737-900ERs?
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The thing you have to remember is the world has changed since the days when TOM / MON / TCX bought their 757s & 767s - heck TOM were BY / AMM & TCX were JMC / Airtours / etc! Back then the low cost model was in its infancy & at many airports didn't exist at all. People booked charter holidays, tour operaters filled BIG aircraft, fuel was relatively cheap, governments weren't taxing aviation off the planet, nobody thought a great deal about the environment, or paid to take bags in the hold, the world was round & all was well.
Today, the world is still round but most of the rest of these statements no longer hold true. Even your observations about 787s being for longhaul could yet change - simply because people are being priced out of longhaul destinations. It was certainly Thomsons original plan but plans sometimes have to change.
I for one do not believe the end of package holidays is nigh however I do know that to survive the remaining players have to change. ...& one of those changes is to accept that 757s are maybe not the aircraft of the future. If they were Boeing would still be building them (or a more fuel efficient equivalent!)
Business runs to make money & running lots of small fleets of aircraft in most instances is a sure fire way to lose it. Now if that means some routes are no longer able to be offered then so be it.
Just like the dinosaurs these businesses have to adopt or die. (Oh - & hope they don't get hit by a giant meteorite! In that case: all bets are off!!)
Today, the world is still round but most of the rest of these statements no longer hold true. Even your observations about 787s being for longhaul could yet change - simply because people are being priced out of longhaul destinations. It was certainly Thomsons original plan but plans sometimes have to change.
I for one do not believe the end of package holidays is nigh however I do know that to survive the remaining players have to change. ...& one of those changes is to accept that 757s are maybe not the aircraft of the future. If they were Boeing would still be building them (or a more fuel efficient equivalent!)
Business runs to make money & running lots of small fleets of aircraft in most instances is a sure fire way to lose it. Now if that means some routes are no longer able to be offered then so be it.
Just like the dinosaurs these businesses have to adopt or die. (Oh - & hope they don't get hit by a giant meteorite! In that case: all bets are off!!)
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Although the long term strategy for the airline was intended to be a 737-800 / 787 only fleet, approximately x10 757's will remain with TOM for the mid-term and for at least the next 5-6 years; with the possibility of some lease extensions too.
This is simply because there isn't an aircarft currently on the market that can fill the gap the 757 would leave with regards to payload and endurance in the short/mid haul market.
Much of what has been said about reduced capacity requirements and hence the 737's is correct. However, the airline have conceded that the niche the 757 fills on certain routes from certain airports can't ideally be filled by the 738, and therefore a fleet evaluation will be required in the near future to see if there is a potential replacement for the 757's towards the end of the decade, or whether they will live with the 737/787 only fleet as best they can going forward.
This is simply because there isn't an aircarft currently on the market that can fill the gap the 757 would leave with regards to payload and endurance in the short/mid haul market.
Much of what has been said about reduced capacity requirements and hence the 737's is correct. However, the airline have conceded that the niche the 757 fills on certain routes from certain airports can't ideally be filled by the 738, and therefore a fleet evaluation will be required in the near future to see if there is a potential replacement for the 757's towards the end of the decade, or whether they will live with the 737/787 only fleet as best they can going forward.
Join Date: Oct 2011
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A320s in Thomson Airways colours
In the new First Chice ad on tv when the guy gets off the plane it's Definately an airbus door. However the aircraft is in TOM blue with a First Choice decal on it. Can anyone confirm if there are a320s in TOM/TUI blue?
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In the new First Chice ad on tv when the guy gets off the plane it's Definately an airbus door. However the aircraft is in TOM blue with a First Choice decal on it. Can anyone confirm if there are a320s in TOM/TUI blue?
Join Date: Sep 2003
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To peach?
Not sure why you say the 738 struggles from ssh to ema? I've regularly done ssh to Dsa and man with no problem. Fill it up with pax and 20 tonnes of fuel and off we go. It takes 5:45 but we get there.
Not sure why you say the 738 struggles from ssh to ema? I've regularly done ssh to Dsa and man with no problem. Fill it up with pax and 20 tonnes of fuel and off we go. It takes 5:45 but we get there.