BA Management (Split From T5 Thread)
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in particular we have lost a huge amount of experience to natural wastage and early retirement. These skills aren't being replaced with fresh blood and that does worry me.
Is that Tony or Gordon's fault I wonder, or does it go back to Maggie's days?
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That's good to know that safety isn't a problem at the moment, though from the sounds of your post sounds like you think your on a knife edge. When the pressures on its the slack you need to provide that essential support. Oh read a post on the net which says Willie has the support of the staff at BA. from my views of this and other airline sites, this seems very far from the truth.
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with respect
Perhaps it's just the Yank, but Free Speech guarantees the gummint won't muzzle your yap. This Forum is Private Property, owned by folks who most assuredly have the right to tune any one out they like. Back to slaggin the little weasel
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I left BA cabin crew to train as a nurse 18 mths ago. I see many similarities in BA management as in NHS manangement.
There seems to be a lot of "graduate managers" ie people that have never met a pasenger/ patient yet are enabled to make huge decisions regarding their welfare. I am not against someone gaining a degree at uni and then progressing to a management position, but there is something to be said for someone "starting at the bottom" and working their way up.
I cared for a patient a few days ago who passed away. The bed manager sent the cleaners to clean his room within mins of his passing. Us nurses wanted to wait until all members of his family had been able to visit.(Some lived 2-3 hrs away) The cleaners waited outside ( with the rellys saying their goodbyes in the room) until I told them to leave. The bed manager who has a degree in media studies and an Msc in management had a huge go at me. She said that the relatives could say goodbye in the funeral home and that she needed the bed asap.
This lack of respect for the people that actually pay our wages is rife in BA too. As a purser on longhaul I often spent time calming down a pax that had been treated badly by BA. I often sent emails to relevant managers in my own time when I returned from flights to discuss the pax problems. In 13 yrs of working for BA, and 5 years as a purser I NEVER recieved a reply.
There seems to be a lot of "graduate managers" ie people that have never met a pasenger/ patient yet are enabled to make huge decisions regarding their welfare. I am not against someone gaining a degree at uni and then progressing to a management position, but there is something to be said for someone "starting at the bottom" and working their way up.
I cared for a patient a few days ago who passed away. The bed manager sent the cleaners to clean his room within mins of his passing. Us nurses wanted to wait until all members of his family had been able to visit.(Some lived 2-3 hrs away) The cleaners waited outside ( with the rellys saying their goodbyes in the room) until I told them to leave. The bed manager who has a degree in media studies and an Msc in management had a huge go at me. She said that the relatives could say goodbye in the funeral home and that she needed the bed asap.
This lack of respect for the people that actually pay our wages is rife in BA too. As a purser on longhaul I often spent time calming down a pax that had been treated badly by BA. I often sent emails to relevant managers in my own time when I returned from flights to discuss the pax problems. In 13 yrs of working for BA, and 5 years as a purser I NEVER recieved a reply.
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While I'm on a roll, T5 has been years in the making. Staff should have been recruited months ago and their training complete by now. Systems should have been checked and re checked, back up systems in place.
Having worked for BA I was sometimes surprised that a/c ever left the tarmac. The pilots and frontline generally are great ( if jaded by the constant apologies) The managers could not manage a drink in the proverbial brewery. As a purser glaringly obvious problems would be reported by myself flight after flight and nothing would be done about it.
In the current climate, I doubt that BA will survive another 20 years. The management system has to change and each manager witin BA has to become more accountable.
Having worked for BA I was sometimes surprised that a/c ever left the tarmac. The pilots and frontline generally are great ( if jaded by the constant apologies) The managers could not manage a drink in the proverbial brewery. As a purser glaringly obvious problems would be reported by myself flight after flight and nothing would be done about it.
In the current climate, I doubt that BA will survive another 20 years. The management system has to change and each manager witin BA has to become more accountable.
loobster,
Yes, heard the same comments from NHS acquaintances.
Thankfully, as a soldier, engineer, RAF officer and pilot most of my immediate managers have been close enough to the 'coal face' to know WTF was going on - with one or two notable and disastrous exceptions.
Some administrators are good - but when they're bad they can spoil your whole day.
However - I'll say it again - Never ascribe to malice that which can more easily be explained by stupidity.
Yes, heard the same comments from NHS acquaintances.
Thankfully, as a soldier, engineer, RAF officer and pilot most of my immediate managers have been close enough to the 'coal face' to know WTF was going on - with one or two notable and disastrous exceptions.
Some administrators are good - but when they're bad they can spoil your whole day.
However - I'll say it again - Never ascribe to malice that which can more easily be explained by stupidity.
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vanHorck, I agree about the effect on unions and management in the 80's but I am afraid that UKland is not ready for European approaches to workforce management, too much US influence.
To use your words " a workforce with a healthy long term future in BA" is maybe what you should have said and, without unions, the lower end of the food chain will not get. Oops, should have seen it before, 2 yrs working for Uitzendburos in A'dam.
It is not unions screwin BA up, try WW.
To use your words " a workforce with a healthy long term future in BA" is maybe what you should have said and, without unions, the lower end of the food chain will not get. Oops, should have seen it before, 2 yrs working for Uitzendburos in A'dam.
It is not unions screwin BA up, try WW.
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Standard of BA Mangement
Jim McAuslan BALPA writes in todays FT
[QUOTE]Sir, Failings on the opening days of Heathrow Terminal 5 are symptomatic of British Airways’ loss of focus in delivering a sound operation. This airline can and should make Britain proud but a fundamental change of attitude is required from the very highest levels of BA management.The British Airline Pilots’ Association has for years pressed BA to focus on operational integrity – punctuality, baggage delivery and product quality. Get that right and the customers will keep coming back[/QUOTE].
The problem with the “highest levels of BA Management” is the abysmal low level of capability and complete lack of experience.
When I started my career in aviation some 40 years ago, I was told that Aviation was one industry where there is no replacement for hands on experience. BOAC/BEA did sponsor employees to do a degree in Management but as a sandwich course where the pie in the sky ideas of lecturers where tempered by the realities they experienced whilst on the ground. The result was well balanced staff who had both aviation and management skills. What has happened since those long forgotten days is that people have been promoted beyond their capability and realising the fact they have moved to safeguard their position by ensuring that anybody that they employ has less capability than they have. The result is an ever decreasing level of management capability with BA management. The really capable people have been held back and in most cases have left to work for other airlines who appreciate their professionalism. Some poor souls stick it out and remain the lone voices crying in the wilderness. Britain has made a big contribution to aviation. there are many expats working in the industry all over the world making a positive contribution.
I wonder how many of the current BA management would be head hunted by other companies for their capability and experience.
[QUOTE]Sir, Failings on the opening days of Heathrow Terminal 5 are symptomatic of British Airways’ loss of focus in delivering a sound operation. This airline can and should make Britain proud but a fundamental change of attitude is required from the very highest levels of BA management.The British Airline Pilots’ Association has for years pressed BA to focus on operational integrity – punctuality, baggage delivery and product quality. Get that right and the customers will keep coming back[/QUOTE].
The problem with the “highest levels of BA Management” is the abysmal low level of capability and complete lack of experience.
When I started my career in aviation some 40 years ago, I was told that Aviation was one industry where there is no replacement for hands on experience. BOAC/BEA did sponsor employees to do a degree in Management but as a sandwich course where the pie in the sky ideas of lecturers where tempered by the realities they experienced whilst on the ground. The result was well balanced staff who had both aviation and management skills. What has happened since those long forgotten days is that people have been promoted beyond their capability and realising the fact they have moved to safeguard their position by ensuring that anybody that they employ has less capability than they have. The result is an ever decreasing level of management capability with BA management. The really capable people have been held back and in most cases have left to work for other airlines who appreciate their professionalism. Some poor souls stick it out and remain the lone voices crying in the wilderness. Britain has made a big contribution to aviation. there are many expats working in the industry all over the world making a positive contribution.
I wonder how many of the current BA management would be head hunted by other companies for their capability and experience.
Willie Walsh promises to improve staff communication
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What a wonderful idea
Roobarb, maybe if I step out on to my Waterworld balcony I can use such a device to deliver my commandments to T5 staff. Like 'get on with it you lazy BEEP's'
Wonderful ingenuity, you must work for our product development team or engineering. Come to my office today and we'll discuss your management style and maybe have a latte down in the street.
ANytime will do as I don't expect much on today as we've cancelled a shed load of the operation, hey look what a great excuse the 'wrong kinda snow is'.. The wrong kind because we could of done with a months worth to see us through the move!
Wonderful ingenuity, you must work for our product development team or engineering. Come to my office today and we'll discuss your management style and maybe have a latte down in the street.
ANytime will do as I don't expect much on today as we've cancelled a shed load of the operation, hey look what a great excuse the 'wrong kinda snow is'.. The wrong kind because we could of done with a months worth to see us through the move!
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There seems to be a lot of "graduate managers" ie people that have never met a pasenger/ patient yet are enabled to make huge decisions regarding their welfare. I am not against someone gaining a degree at uni and then progressing to a management position, but there is something to be said for someone "starting at the bottom" and working their way up.
Everything is under control.
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From the BALPA letter . . .
This is exactly where the focus should be, on the stockholders. Only they have the power to force real change. Why are the stockholders tolerating a ride toward an all-time low stock price?
Who are BA's major stockholders?
Banks, institutional investors and analysts need to wake up to the fact that there is something very wrong right at the heart of this company that is making our once great brand a laughing stock.
Who are BA's major stockholders?
Mistrust in Management
It looks like the Pilots are going for blood then
Interesting open letter from BALPA and it reads to me like the fight is really on now, and it looks like it is going to be very messy.
BA management have played straight into the Pilots hands and will pay dearly for their mistakes, sadly some of the innocent will also pay.
Regards
Exeng
BA management have played straight into the Pilots hands and will pay dearly for their mistakes, sadly some of the innocent will also pay.
Regards
Exeng
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It’s very sad as an outsider to watch British Airways slowly tear itself apart led by some truly terrible management and riven by internal rivalries and demarcation disputes. BA appears to have caught a very bad bout of what used to be called the “British disease". The present situation is very reminiscent of British Leyland in the 1970's at its worst and the outcome unless this situation is sorted out quickly will be precisely the same. No more British motor industry, no more national airline carrier. The comparisons between the two looks alarmingly similar just replace Willie Walsh with Michael Edwards. You really would have to be a fool or a total masochist to book an airline ticket with BA in its current chaotic state when there are so many excellent alternatives. As many airline tickets are booked well in advance it may be a few months yet before the markets punishment of BA really starts to painfully kick in. Somehow I can’t see the Government being terribly sympathetic to a bail out when Willie Walsh starts running out of cash even if the EU would allow it (check out Alitalia). The final straw may well be the forthcoming pilot’s strike which BA management have clearly done their best to provoke. What a mess and national disgrace. 
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Saw last Finance Director John Rishton
,who instigated the Pensions Review, on CNBC a couple of weeks ago being congratulated on rescuing the Dutch supermarket group Ahold from the bankruptcy it was teetering on when he joined.
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markrl: Welcome to PPRuNe, but sorry, but you seem to have completely lost the plot with your opening posting. Even by stretching my imagination to the limit, I can't see that comparing BA plc today with BL in the 1970's is valid.
BA makes large amounts of money despite the management-induced cockups. The workforce cannot be compared with BL.
BA makes large amounts of money despite the management-induced cockups. The workforce cannot be compared with BL.
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Markri,
there are no demarcation disputes at BA the unions are far too weak for that. That we have managed to function at all is a tribute to the commitment of our very dedicated staff. We are under no illusions as to the commercial position of our company and all wish both to see it prosper and to share in that prosperity. The staff here know we can give world class service if the management let us! In no way is our position comparable to british Leyland.
there are no demarcation disputes at BA the unions are far too weak for that. That we have managed to function at all is a tribute to the commitment of our very dedicated staff. We are under no illusions as to the commercial position of our company and all wish both to see it prosper and to share in that prosperity. The staff here know we can give world class service if the management let us! In no way is our position comparable to british Leyland.