BA Management (Split From T5 Thread)
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Groundhand
Groundhand - I'm all up for a clear out, nothing like a good fire in the undergrowth to encourgage new shoots!
But there is that little thing known as our contracts to sort out, oh at any rate much of what you say has already happened at BA. Outsourcing much of non essential services, developing 2 tiered contracts for the workforce. I.e. new recruits on far worse terms and conditions than existing staff. (a terrible inequality)
Just read a great article on the BA BRAND - LINK Some bloke called Kevin Murray a x - head of communications at BA (think brother of Ruby Murray). Article states how they think the BA brand could be damaged beyond repair.
But there may be enough 'goodwill in the tank' to see us through. So as some other posters have said, a strike by any unit at BA could see the end, we are gentlemen on the brink....... and with 2 sections of staff, the pilots and cabin crew rumbling away it looks ominous.
Doors to automatic!!!!!!!
But there is that little thing known as our contracts to sort out, oh at any rate much of what you say has already happened at BA. Outsourcing much of non essential services, developing 2 tiered contracts for the workforce. I.e. new recruits on far worse terms and conditions than existing staff. (a terrible inequality)
Just read a great article on the BA BRAND - LINK Some bloke called Kevin Murray a x - head of communications at BA (think brother of Ruby Murray). Article states how they think the BA brand could be damaged beyond repair.
But there may be enough 'goodwill in the tank' to see us through. So as some other posters have said, a strike by any unit at BA could see the end, we are gentlemen on the brink....... and with 2 sections of staff, the pilots and cabin crew rumbling away it looks ominous.
Doors to automatic!!!!!!!
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You are right
StorminNormin - you are right, always.... What are you going on about or have I missed something in the excitement about the autobot plane?
Stormin - you changed your post, you naughty chap. No it's not dementure, I understand now, you are right that there is a thread going that suggests, along the lines of it could be a deliberate attempt to scupper BA, whilst they whistle through someother devious dealing. Usual smoke and mirrors cheap magician trick. Anyway the thread if nothing else keeps the conspirators happy..
Stormin - you changed your post, you naughty chap. No it's not dementure, I understand now, you are right that there is a thread going that suggests, along the lines of it could be a deliberate attempt to scupper BA, whilst they whistle through someother devious dealing. Usual smoke and mirrors cheap magician trick. Anyway the thread if nothing else keeps the conspirators happy..
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Groundhand...
We do - that's why we are so upset that things are going so badly. Our punctuality has been awful in the past two years, our service well below what it should be. Despite some strengths, most people are upset with the state of the operation and its beyond their control. As a pilot, I can influence punctuality, but only in a negative sense. I can't make tugs appear or an aeroplane arrive on stand sooner if I am stuck waiting for one to arrive. Given that I'm always ready unless something gets in my way I feel that I am delivering a service that is worth the money. Unfortunately the airline as a whole is not. All of us play a part in that, but by doing my job well, along with almost all of my colleagues we can't make it any better. Other forces are required - this includes changing working practices and managing things better - and getting rid of people who are not needed. Unfortunately Willie came along with a giant axe and took bits off of every part of the operation, when in fact he should have added to some and taken away from others. Its a management issue rather than one of working practices, although they do play a part.
The management view of working practices is poorer than it ought to be, they single out the minority and extrapolate that to the the majority. Our cabin crew for instance, who are seen as inflexible (and some indeed are), often work right up to the maximum they are allowed to legally in longhaul. You can't get much more out of them than the legal max.... (and I don't mean union max).
A lot of airlines who seemingly have flexible crews often loose many (they get fed up) and use questionable practices. Like an airline who recently asked someone I know to fly two early sectors, position up the country and then fly two lates, calling the time in the taxi "rest" to allow the duty. That's just illegal and stupid and I for one am pleased we have union agreements to prevent that. Having seen both sides of the coin in BA and outside, I think the union agreements, at least for some groups of staff, help both the company and the staff.
What doesn't help is not seeing the woods for the trees, and Willie is doing just that. He can't see the incompetence of staff below him (including illegal deals) and can't see that investment is needed to prevent losses. BA says today that the T5 probs have cost £16million. Imagine if we spent half of that training staff and planning, we would still be 8m ahead, its just it wouldn't be seen like that, it would be seen as 8m wasted. We'd still have the same staff and the same working practices, but we'd have a working terminal and plenty to be proud of, and also we'd have a stronger bottom line and future.
BA employees, from the Chairman, CEO down to the front line men and women have to realise that they are not 'the world's favorite' any more; that no-one owes them a living and that unless they collectively move forward their prospects are very dicey.
The management view of working practices is poorer than it ought to be, they single out the minority and extrapolate that to the the majority. Our cabin crew for instance, who are seen as inflexible (and some indeed are), often work right up to the maximum they are allowed to legally in longhaul. You can't get much more out of them than the legal max.... (and I don't mean union max).
A lot of airlines who seemingly have flexible crews often loose many (they get fed up) and use questionable practices. Like an airline who recently asked someone I know to fly two early sectors, position up the country and then fly two lates, calling the time in the taxi "rest" to allow the duty. That's just illegal and stupid and I for one am pleased we have union agreements to prevent that. Having seen both sides of the coin in BA and outside, I think the union agreements, at least for some groups of staff, help both the company and the staff.
What doesn't help is not seeing the woods for the trees, and Willie is doing just that. He can't see the incompetence of staff below him (including illegal deals) and can't see that investment is needed to prevent losses. BA says today that the T5 probs have cost £16million. Imagine if we spent half of that training staff and planning, we would still be 8m ahead, its just it wouldn't be seen like that, it would be seen as 8m wasted. We'd still have the same staff and the same working practices, but we'd have a working terminal and plenty to be proud of, and also we'd have a stronger bottom line and future.
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Terminal 5
I've got the idea in my head that this thread has
put there.
I have a distinct feeling that the whole situation
has been skilfully manufactured in order to reduce
any will by the Pilots to go on strike over the Openlies
fiasco by giving them the idea that any further action.
Or should I say FUTURE action by them could put BA
in jeopardy
But thats not possible, I hope.
Willies not THAT bright, is he?
put there.
I have a distinct feeling that the whole situation
has been skilfully manufactured in order to reduce
any will by the Pilots to go on strike over the Openlies
fiasco by giving them the idea that any further action.
Or should I say FUTURE action by them could put BA
in jeopardy
But thats not possible, I hope.
Willies not THAT bright, is he?
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Try £270 million
Ornithopter - Nice reply, you sound like a sensible chap, yet you too are irked by what has been going on for sometime now. T5 just became the tipping point that realised all that is wrong at BA.
But just imagine what £270 would of bought in staff and training support at BA. That was the cost of the price fixing scandal, od which Martin George and the other Clot Burns walked away not in shame, but with a nice golden handshake.
Cake for the upper echeleons and sh1t for those, very professional, coal face employees.
But just imagine what £270 would of bought in staff and training support at BA. That was the cost of the price fixing scandal, od which Martin George and the other Clot Burns walked away not in shame, but with a nice golden handshake.
Cake for the upper echeleons and sh1t for those, very professional, coal face employees.
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BA pension swindle
Stormin - It happen with the BA pension, a little distraction (cabin crew IR issues) whilst 2.1 billion was saved from the pension pot. Now that's something even Paul Daniels couldn't pull off, or Debbie MacGee for that matter.
I think he's bright, no doubt.............. up for a fight, no doubt........ realises the pilots have the upper hand, no doubt...........
But thats not possible, I hope. Willies not THAT bright, is he?
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BAeng
Thanks, or should I say that?
You just reinforced my idea that this is a manufactured
situation to force the people that matter back into line!
I need more medication!
Must go and lie down now.
Hope I don't have nightmares about pilotless planes!
You just reinforced my idea that this is a manufactured
situation to force the people that matter back into line!
I need more medication!
Must go and lie down now.
Hope I don't have nightmares about pilotless planes!
Last edited by Storminnorm; 3rd Apr 2008 at 16:00.
Groundhand:
Quite right Groundhand. The trouble is that the process has to be started from the top, and there would appear to be more than enough evidence that the Board and Senior Management can't and won't "walk the Talk" that goes with the sort of business transformation you are obviously talking about.....Perhaps if BA hired the CEO of Air New Zealand.....you know, the one that works on the check in and makes his senior executives load bags once a month so that they have an intimate understanding of the Customer experience.
....On second thoughts, that isn't going to work unless you get the Board to do likewise.
Moving forward will take a lot of balls because every BA employee will have to look inwardly and ask themselves 'Am I delivering a better service more cost effectively than the competition?' The current answer is obvious.
....On second thoughts, that isn't going to work unless you get the Board to do likewise.
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Willie humping bags
But Sunfish, he is humping the bags;
try; www.weewilliewalsh.co.uk
What a laugh!!!!!! Kept us entertained in the 'restroom' no end
Website URL changed !!! spelt willie wrong, what a silly billy
try; www.weewilliewalsh.co.uk
What a laugh!!!!!! Kept us entertained in the 'restroom' no end
Website URL changed !!! spelt willie wrong, what a silly billy
Last edited by BAengineering; 3rd Apr 2008 at 17:14.
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A clear out of management, senior and Middle, a cultural change allround, and lose the YES men and fear for persons speaking out. An open and transparent efficient culture.
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Pool championship
Ahh Five bells you would be talking about the interTerminal Pool and darts championship. One runs on a 3 year rotation the other on a 4yr rotation. You've guessed it, the 12 yr cycle when they clash coincided with the opening of Terminal 5.
Wierdly last Thursday was the opening rounds of both contests, everyone has ago and gets involved so it's quite a busy day.. Stupid of management to plan their opening when there was so much else going on....
Oh the link to williewalshgame
www.weewilliewalsh.co.uk
Wierdly last Thursday was the opening rounds of both contests, everyone has ago and gets involved so it's quite a busy day.. Stupid of management to plan their opening when there was so much else going on....
Oh the link to williewalshgame
www.weewilliewalsh.co.uk
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BA standing instruction 2
Para 1 - Price fixing June 07 failed that promise
Para 2 - Delivering promises to customers, what like flying them somewhere? Yep you got it, screwed that promise many times over the last few years. (hey but don't worry it was someone elses fault)
Para 3. Honest communications??? Working as one team ??? Respecting individual and collective rights - Nope don't see any of that good stuff
Para 4. Rail roading through a dodgy environmental report, pushing for a third runway, refusing to consult with local pressure groups. Yep you got it, not much commitment to that promise
Para 5. The environment - yeah with the greenpeace lot on the planes I don't think BA is very respected for being a green organisation, ref 3rd runway at LHR etc
Board has responsability, but clearly not the accountability that is usually attached to such a promise. Will someone please stand down over this.
Para 2 - Delivering promises to customers, what like flying them somewhere? Yep you got it, screwed that promise many times over the last few years. (hey but don't worry it was someone elses fault)
Para 3. Honest communications??? Working as one team ??? Respecting individual and collective rights - Nope don't see any of that good stuff
Para 4. Rail roading through a dodgy environmental report, pushing for a third runway, refusing to consult with local pressure groups. Yep you got it, not much commitment to that promise
Para 5. The environment - yeah with the greenpeace lot on the planes I don't think BA is very respected for being a green organisation, ref 3rd runway at LHR etc
Board has responsability, but clearly not the accountability that is usually attached to such a promise. Will someone please stand down over this.
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Try the image search function on Google - Wee Willie never seems to smile. Instead he only ever likes to look seriously powerful and in control. Rod Ellington was regularly seen smiling as far as I can recall. This Sun photo is a typical Walsh image. http://images.google.co.uk/imgres?im...icial%26sa%3DN
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Ignored
Thank you Two-Tone-Blue for your remarks about the relevance of my post number 1010. Unfortunately you appear to have been the only person who thought it merited a response because not one of the apparently knowledgeable people on the forum has offered me the desired reassurance, nor indeed even a plain statement that "You'll be lucky to get your suitcase back at all assuming you manage to get to LAX and back".
L9172
L9172
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Get the feeling your being ignored
L9172 - you are not being ignored, I guess we just don't have the answer your looking for, sorry mate.
I personally wouldn't want to tell you to take the chance, to find it all went pear shaped for you on your trip. Innit as Two-tone-blue would say.
That's one of the issues with BA at the moment, why it has lost the trust of the customer base. If T5 was an isolated incident, it would be shameful, but not the end of the world. The problem is, and i thought this was the thread here, that there have been a succession of problems all that have let the passengers down.
Underlying all of this is an organisation which is defective to say the least.
I personally wouldn't want to tell you to take the chance, to find it all went pear shaped for you on your trip. Innit as Two-tone-blue would say.
That's one of the issues with BA at the moment, why it has lost the trust of the customer base. If T5 was an isolated incident, it would be shameful, but not the end of the world. The problem is, and i thought this was the thread here, that there have been a succession of problems all that have let the passengers down.
Underlying all of this is an organisation which is defective to say the least.
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Are investors likely to know the answers to these questions?
Are investors likely to understand the implications of these answers?
Are investors likely to understand the implications of these answers?
http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle3670961.ece
- 4th para onwards.
When a major institutional shareholder makes comments like that in public, then the CEO of a PLC is in trouble.
From the various posts describing the management culture of BA, it would appear that its problems fit a reasonably well known business culture model involving successive layers managing "up" trying to get ahead. As a result their managing "down" is not very good at all.
......and of course if you see management in terms of "Up" and "Down" then that's part of the problem too. The inverted pyramid is a much better way of looking at things.
......and of course if you see management in terms of "Up" and "Down" then that's part of the problem too. The inverted pyramid is a much better way of looking at things.
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it won't fix things but it would at least a little show that we actually care
That reminds me of a line a Flight Engineer on the 747 Classics used once,
"Other airlines care less, British Airways couldn't"
Priceless.
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Engineering cutbacks
Hey UKeng, are you able to shed any light on the question in 3Y's post. I think he's getting at the fact the visual side of the airline seems to be in shambles, what's life like in engineering? have you experienced the same level of cutbacks and pressure?
Hey UKeng, are you able to shed any light on the question in 3Y's post. I think he's getting at the fact the visual side of the airline seems to be in shambles, what's life like in engineering? have you experienced the same level of cutbacks and pressure?
At the moment levels of staffing in Engineering haven't dropped enough to affect safety but who knows what will happen as more of the older staff leave and numbers drop still further. T5 moving wasn't as much of a problem for engineering as it's the same aircraft in a different place.