BA Management (Split From T5 Thread)
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Rightbase - very droll, 747-436 was sharing the 'toilet' with other staff at T5. Toilet as in standard Queens English. No I'm sure he mean't the new way of working and shared crewrooms in T5.
Traditionally crewrooms have been segregated affairs around the airport. My appologies to Handsolo, who I know is a pilot, never been to those stations so don't know the setup.
Going back to skahu Zulu's statement about each group of staff respecting each other will be assisted by the 'New way'. I guess that will be something that needs to bed down.
AS for L337 - he can pop over to our crewroom anyday, evening or night, he will be eternally welcome as he has given us all a 'right good laugh'.
BAEng
Traditionally crewrooms have been segregated affairs around the airport. My appologies to Handsolo, who I know is a pilot, never been to those stations so don't know the setup.
Going back to skahu Zulu's statement about each group of staff respecting each other will be assisted by the 'New way'. I guess that will be something that needs to bed down.
AS for L337 - he can pop over to our crewroom anyday, evening or night, he will be eternally welcome as he has given us all a 'right good laugh'.
BAEng
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Paul Coby quote
He said: "BA spends a lot of time familiarising people with the new environment. Our whole philosophy is [T5] has to be a great place to fly from and to work in.
Coby explained that members of staff were closely consulted to define processes to be simple and more efficient, while also ramping up customer service.
Coby explained that members of staff were closely consulted to define processes to be simple and more efficient, while also ramping up customer service.
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I get it, BAengineering, you're a committee, not just a person. You're all logged on in your crewroom (which we pilots never go in, must be true because you've never seen it) and taking it in turns to post! That's how you can post round the clock...
PS L337 is definately a pilot, he/she has been contributing to debate on this pilots' forum for several years....
PS L337 is definately a pilot, he/she has been contributing to debate on this pilots' forum for several years....
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Committee contribution
Overstress - thanks for wrapping that one up, glad to know L337 is a pilot.
Is a committee opinion any less or more valid. Indeed I think the posting by many simply reinforces the truth behind the 'real opinion' of staff.
Why is the pilots italicised? Are you suggesting a forum not for others, such as engineers. A little eliteist........
The invite stands, Overstress and L337 your very welcome to our crewroom
Anyway we really do have to go right now.
Is a committee opinion any less or more valid. Indeed I think the posting by many simply reinforces the truth behind the 'real opinion' of staff.
Why is the pilots italicised? Are you suggesting a forum not for others, such as engineers. A little eliteist........
The invite stands, Overstress and L337 your very welcome to our crewroom
Anyway we really do have to go right now.
Rest Room Pedantry
Thought so (Hoped so!)
My job makes me a pedant, I'm afraid, but I have witnessed a few unnecessary misunderstandings caused by our common languages with eraser-using americans and thong-wearing aussies.
My job makes me a pedant, I'm afraid, but I have witnessed a few unnecessary misunderstandings caused by our common languages with eraser-using americans and thong-wearing aussies.
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If not, then this is purely a management problem / fault.
If you know that you need 1 A, 2 B and 2 C for a job and you allocate 5 A, then it's your fault if the job doesn't get done, not the fault of the As not being B/Cs. That applies if you are a manager scheduling people or an engineer picking components, or tools or whatever.
The fact that the A/B/C employees could perhaps do all the different jobs is irrelevant - you should be scheduling within the known restrictions.
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Are you suggesting that employees introduced additional demarcations when they moved terminals ?
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I originally thought I'd stay out of this but BAeng has brought me into it. On another thread I seem to remember his bona fides being challenged and response being lacking, could be wrong, in which case apologies.
Seems to me this has turned into a "Isn't WW a ****?" thread. Fair enough.
If you guys want to carve each other up, up to you but I think you are losing sight of the fact that all the time you are having a go at each other the true culprits are running away with performance bonuses. Keep it on track, I am only an aspiring PPL and frequent flyer but it is OUR money that keeps you flying, OUR perception of relative merits of airlines and OUR willingness to part with aforesaid cash to who we perceive to be the best deal. If you want to have foghts amongst yourselves I would suggest that it is best carried out in your own airline's forum out of the glare of public or press, if you do not do so I would be minded to think you hold no position in that company or may be a management stooge.
Those of us lurking outside of the PP community, there are more than a few, try to keep as quite as poss, we see some things of which we have little understanding but gives us food for thought, highly value the skills and professionalism of you guys but then read some of this crap and realise that you are no longer demi-gods but the same as the drunken bozo in the boozer we have spent half the night trying to avoid.
Now, can we get back on topic and discuss the problems of T5?
Seems to me this has turned into a "Isn't WW a ****?" thread. Fair enough.
If you guys want to carve each other up, up to you but I think you are losing sight of the fact that all the time you are having a go at each other the true culprits are running away with performance bonuses. Keep it on track, I am only an aspiring PPL and frequent flyer but it is OUR money that keeps you flying, OUR perception of relative merits of airlines and OUR willingness to part with aforesaid cash to who we perceive to be the best deal. If you want to have foghts amongst yourselves I would suggest that it is best carried out in your own airline's forum out of the glare of public or press, if you do not do so I would be minded to think you hold no position in that company or may be a management stooge.
Those of us lurking outside of the PP community, there are more than a few, try to keep as quite as poss, we see some things of which we have little understanding but gives us food for thought, highly value the skills and professionalism of you guys but then read some of this crap and realise that you are no longer demi-gods but the same as the drunken bozo in the boozer we have spent half the night trying to avoid.
Now, can we get back on topic and discuss the problems of T5?
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BA Staff survey
L337 - 07.34 posting, you may be getting a little obsessive about this, maybe you ought to give it a rest? Just a polite comment.
But while your here, and this is not intended to be flammatory, please can you give me your valued opinion with respect to certain elements of the BA staff survey. You have generally criticised my contributions for the reason that they are anti BA, that this is not compatible with being an employee.
As has already been stated in this forum, the VAST MAJORITY (to catch a well used phrase) of BA staff responded by stating, if asked they would not speak highly of thier employer. That my dear Pilot Colleague (has been confirmed) is the real crux of the matter. I unfortunately am not alone.
Reading your posts, we clearly have much in common, i too believe the managerial contribution in this fiasco is the real causal factor. I too believe an 'independent' investigation should be conducted, expediantly, and acted on with respect to the findings.
I am sure what will really happen is BA LT team will use it as another opportunity to slash working conditions further. These BA trolls that appear on here knocking the loading department. Infrequentflyer is absolutely correct, if management does not schedule correctly, right man right job. A little like having an A320 pilot being asked to captain a B777. Its obvious really and cheers for pointing out this simple principle.
Nice post from luoto, yes I can't wait for this weeks BA NEWs, should produce further contribution on here! As for the link you attached, i thought I'd post the front page for others to view, Dawn of a New ERA, maybe it should of read 'End of an ERA', well that's how I feel about what has happened.
But while your here, and this is not intended to be flammatory, please can you give me your valued opinion with respect to certain elements of the BA staff survey. You have generally criticised my contributions for the reason that they are anti BA, that this is not compatible with being an employee.
As has already been stated in this forum, the VAST MAJORITY (to catch a well used phrase) of BA staff responded by stating, if asked they would not speak highly of thier employer. That my dear Pilot Colleague (has been confirmed) is the real crux of the matter. I unfortunately am not alone.
Reading your posts, we clearly have much in common, i too believe the managerial contribution in this fiasco is the real causal factor. I too believe an 'independent' investigation should be conducted, expediantly, and acted on with respect to the findings.
I am sure what will really happen is BA LT team will use it as another opportunity to slash working conditions further. These BA trolls that appear on here knocking the loading department. Infrequentflyer is absolutely correct, if management does not schedule correctly, right man right job. A little like having an A320 pilot being asked to captain a B777. Its obvious really and cheers for pointing out this simple principle.
Nice post from luoto, yes I can't wait for this weeks BA NEWs, should produce further contribution on here! As for the link you attached, i thought I'd post the front page for others to view, Dawn of a New ERA, maybe it should of read 'End of an ERA', well that's how I feel about what has happened.
Last edited by BAengineering; 3rd Apr 2008 at 08:50.
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Multiple personality disorder on PPrune
BA Engineering,
Hi there. By admitting that you are a 'computer permanently logged into PPrune in the engineering section' and you therefore are the comments of whoever happens to be sat on his break at this particular PC, explains a lot!
I was of the opinion before learning this, that you were a someone who definitely needed to get out more (as you have managed to post every 10 minutes for nearly a week). Your variable grammatical powers and wavering opinion also caused me some confusion.
Now we know that you are not a schizophrenic, could I make a suggestion to you at the Engineering crew room?
Could you all get your own log-ins? It would make more sense to the rest of us.....
Hi there. By admitting that you are a 'computer permanently logged into PPrune in the engineering section' and you therefore are the comments of whoever happens to be sat on his break at this particular PC, explains a lot!
I was of the opinion before learning this, that you were a someone who definitely needed to get out more (as you have managed to post every 10 minutes for nearly a week). Your variable grammatical powers and wavering opinion also caused me some confusion.
Now we know that you are not a schizophrenic, could I make a suggestion to you at the Engineering crew room?
Could you all get your own log-ins? It would make more sense to the rest of us.....
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BAEngineering: To quote you.
Along with you edited, deleted, and inflammatory posts, you are wrong again.
L337 - your getting a little tedious now, your on my ignore list. See you. One thing I will bet you, bet you I never reply to another one of your posts. Your on your own mate, till you pick another alias from the BA created profiles.
Bye and enjoy the deskjob.
Bye and enjoy the deskjob.
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L337
L337 - please see if you can rein back in from the lunatic fringe and actually contribute in a professional manner as one would expect from postion as a BA pilot.
Please actually read my post and respond, the question levelled to you about the views of BA Staff, in an independant anonymous survey.
Oh, BBC ramping up again, stating the BBC have recieved so many letters about BA and their indifference to the plight of our customers. That BA are continuing to let down those affected by the luggage issues. Indeed one lady, expecting to get married, you guessed it, the wedding dress is in the luggage!! It's stories like that which clearly illustrate the personal tradgedy behind the chaos.
Please actually read my post and respond, the question levelled to you about the views of BA Staff, in an independant anonymous survey.
Oh, BBC ramping up again, stating the BBC have recieved so many letters about BA and their indifference to the plight of our customers. That BA are continuing to let down those affected by the luggage issues. Indeed one lady, expecting to get married, you guessed it, the wedding dress is in the luggage!! It's stories like that which clearly illustrate the personal tradgedy behind the chaos.
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Multiple personality
Right Engine - now your definately a pilot, (or pilots) considering your own posting;
.
From the BALPA BA dispute thread, you clearly speak for the whole pilot community, or maybe you are the whole pilot community? All 3000 of you.
AS for posting every 10 mins, that is laughable. Did you take all the times and out them into an xcell spreadsheet? Make sure that mystery man from BAA doesn't delete a cell, you know what could happen then, innaccurate information and Terminal disaster.
Would anyone care to share their experiences?
Yours sincerely,
The BA pilot community
Yours sincerely,
The BA pilot community
From the BALPA BA dispute thread, you clearly speak for the whole pilot community, or maybe you are the whole pilot community? All 3000 of you.
AS for posting every 10 mins, that is laughable. Did you take all the times and out them into an xcell spreadsheet? Make sure that mystery man from BAA doesn't delete a cell, you know what could happen then, innaccurate information and Terminal disaster.
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One step forward two steps back
Is BA operating a 'one step forward to steps back' or a Dr Doolittle 'Push me Pull me' management philosophy?
Judging by the post on the Guardian ONLINE I think either one would suit. How on earth can BA still be reporting 17,000 bags are still at Heathrow. Despite all the huffing an puffing, the 400 management volunteers, they have still only reduced the 'baggage mountain' (sounds distinctly EU) by just 2000 bags. (using BA's own figures)
Using my rudimentary mathematic skills, over a 7 day period using 400 Management volunteers per day, that works out at 22,400 manhours over the last week. (400 * 8hr day * 7 days)
Taking this further, it looks like it takes some 11.2 hrs (1.5 days) to move each bag. Now that is an prime example of BA efficiency. But then we have to remember these are untrained, undirected personnel, so what can you expect?
Judging by current performance, assuming the same level of 'volunteering' can be afforded by BA (Paying overtime rates) then I expect the bag situation to be resolved in 60 days (17,000 bags * 11.2 * 3200 manhours per day)
Judging by the DR Doolittle approach taken by BA management, it is no wonder we have decided to ship the baggage to Milan for sorting. Especially for an airport which has had a recent history for organised baggage theft, LINK. Why did we contract it out? Because our current performance mean't there was clearly no way to reunite bags anytime within the next 2 months! If it wasn't so serious you may laugh....
Judging by the post on the Guardian ONLINE I think either one would suit. How on earth can BA still be reporting 17,000 bags are still at Heathrow. Despite all the huffing an puffing, the 400 management volunteers, they have still only reduced the 'baggage mountain' (sounds distinctly EU) by just 2000 bags. (using BA's own figures)
Using my rudimentary mathematic skills, over a 7 day period using 400 Management volunteers per day, that works out at 22,400 manhours over the last week. (400 * 8hr day * 7 days)
Taking this further, it looks like it takes some 11.2 hrs (1.5 days) to move each bag. Now that is an prime example of BA efficiency. But then we have to remember these are untrained, undirected personnel, so what can you expect?
Judging by current performance, assuming the same level of 'volunteering' can be afforded by BA (Paying overtime rates) then I expect the bag situation to be resolved in 60 days (17,000 bags * 11.2 * 3200 manhours per day)
Judging by the DR Doolittle approach taken by BA management, it is no wonder we have decided to ship the baggage to Milan for sorting. Especially for an airport which has had a recent history for organised baggage theft, LINK. Why did we contract it out? Because our current performance mean't there was clearly no way to reunite bags anytime within the next 2 months! If it wasn't so serious you may laugh....
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Terminal 5 fiasco - pilot opinion
From the same Guardian article above this little gem!
.
Come on guys and girls at the front end, this is what we've been telling you since Terminal Thursday. Glad you've finally got on board!!! And that includes you L337.
BA pilots are expected today to blame the T5 fiasco on the airline's management
Come on guys and girls at the front end, this is what we've been telling you since Terminal Thursday. Glad you've finally got on board!!! And that includes you L337.
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Luoto - on the ball
Luoto - your posting has made the British tabloids, just goes to show the press actually read this site to pick up on interesting themes.
read the article here, well done Luoto on picking up on something newsworthy.
Daily Mirror - A FLYING SHAME
read the article here, well done Luoto on picking up on something newsworthy.
Daily Mirror - A FLYING SHAME
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One way to ease the pressure at T5 could be to coach the passengers to Milan and fly outer there.
Rumour about switch 2 will change into 2.1/2.2/2.3/2.4, these will be split by 14 Daze. 2.2/2.3/2.4 will be reconfirmed at T5 minus 7 Daze to allow for any unplanned problems.
Has anybody seen the PR team yet ???
Rumour about switch 2 will change into 2.1/2.2/2.3/2.4, these will be split by 14 Daze. 2.2/2.3/2.4 will be reconfirmed at T5 minus 7 Daze to allow for any unplanned problems.
Has anybody seen the PR team yet ???
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BAEngineering,
An individual asking for the opinions of others on behalf of their community is a bit different to a community acting under the guise of one 'individual'.
Apart from that important fact, I hope you realise that I am in agreement with most of your postings whoever happened to be sat at the computer......
An individual asking for the opinions of others on behalf of their community is a bit different to a community acting under the guise of one 'individual'.
Apart from that important fact, I hope you realise that I am in agreement with most of your postings whoever happened to be sat at the computer......
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BALPA go for the jugular
Further update on earlier post, Pilot position detailed further in
What has been pointed out on PPRUNE right from the start is that WW's position is untenable. That as this fiasco continues, 1 week has passed, the calls for his resignation will get louder and more forceful. But the culpability, which Willie has accepted, does not stop there.
Again, sorry to repeat, an independant investigation needs to be undertaken into the 'long road to T5' (T5 being synonomous with disaster) I am sure that long road will throw up slackers and shirkers from the management community, those that went through the motions, ticked the yes boxes and thought, 'it'll be alright on the night'.
It needs to be conducted soner rather than later to ensure staff confidence is restored. An independant investigation is necessary as staff sadly exhibit a VAST mistrust of their management.
The British Air Line Pilots' Association (Balpa) is preparing a statement condemning Mr Walsh and calling for better leadership of BA as it faces the twin challenges of moving to a new terminal and greater competition on its lucrative transatlantic routes
Again, sorry to repeat, an independant investigation needs to be undertaken into the 'long road to T5' (T5 being synonomous with disaster) I am sure that long road will throw up slackers and shirkers from the management community, those that went through the motions, ticked the yes boxes and thought, 'it'll be alright on the night'.
It needs to be conducted soner rather than later to ensure staff confidence is restored. An independant investigation is necessary as staff sadly exhibit a VAST mistrust of their management.