BMI
Join Date: Jan 2002
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I remember one of James Hogans 'Briefs' that he gave in the canteen at the hall.
All I could think was that he was a carbon copy of Tony Blair with the way he used his hands and the flannel that he was spouting, all dressed up in 'media-speak'.
This was about the time that all the staff were given those bloody silly kites.
To blame him for the mess that bmi are now in would be unfair, but he was certainly involved !
All I could think was that he was a carbon copy of Tony Blair with the way he used his hands and the flannel that he was spouting, all dressed up in 'media-speak'.
This was about the time that all the staff were given those bloody silly kites.
To blame him for the mess that bmi are now in would be unfair, but he was certainly involved !
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Whilst not being a fan of the transatlantic smooth salesman bulls**t that JH was so adept at; at least he could stand in front of his staff (and a TV camera) without looking like a rabbit caught in the headlights. He could talk the talk, and I reckon if the old man had put his hand in his own pocket a little more, instead of dreaming up ways of scamming cash from our partners (who were picking up the bill), he would have been able to 'walk the walk' and put the airline in a much better position than it is in now. Contrast his style of 'upfront, salesman' type leadership with the bl**dy shambles that has existed since NT took over. There has not been a single staff briefing as to the direction of the airline since he took over; the only time he could drag himself down to LHR for meetings with the pilots was when there was a real threat of industrial action about 3 years ago - and when he came he spent most of the time in the meeting legs astride on a chair looking down & fiddling with his mobile phone. - what a professional!
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I think it's unfair to blame James Hogan for the poor branding. He had a vision but was shown the door before it was completed. His sucessors bear more responsibility for the current mess. It may well be that Hogan's vision wouldn't have worked but we will never know now!
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there's probably a few frames still in the old blue/grey colour scheme
Another forum is reporting Swiss are re-instating LHR-GVA, which in the short term will be operated with one Swiss and one BMI machine. Seems flying for other group members is either the way forward or the start of cherry picking alas.
Join Date: Sep 2006
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RE: Swiss Op by bmi, LHR-GVA GVA-LHR
This is surely more of a ploy to retain the slots in bmi's favour and provide a cash boost to bmi (through the leasing contract) without the need for a direct cash injection. Probably has its tax advantages too... (I'm no accountant though).
In terms of "bmi" verse "British Midland"; remembering a workshop I attended about Intellectual property and more relevant to this discussion, Trade Marks,
I suspect that a trade mark of "British Midland" could be challenged should another party try to use it or something similar. Since it is geographically relevant to the Midlands there would be a possibility that its use would become restricted to the Midlands whilst another party could use it or something similar in another part of the country.
This wouldn't be a particularly strong argument if the airline could demonstrate it had brand presence through the UK (I bet it struggle to do this) but it is still a risk nonetheless.
bmi on the other hand is not constrained in this way and so avoids this pitfall.
Again, I'm no expert...but this is PPRuNe after all!
Would be very interested to here from an expert on these things those to either deny or confirm this assertion/belief.
This is surely more of a ploy to retain the slots in bmi's favour and provide a cash boost to bmi (through the leasing contract) without the need for a direct cash injection. Probably has its tax advantages too... (I'm no accountant though).
In terms of "bmi" verse "British Midland"; remembering a workshop I attended about Intellectual property and more relevant to this discussion, Trade Marks,
I suspect that a trade mark of "British Midland" could be challenged should another party try to use it or something similar. Since it is geographically relevant to the Midlands there would be a possibility that its use would become restricted to the Midlands whilst another party could use it or something similar in another part of the country.
This wouldn't be a particularly strong argument if the airline could demonstrate it had brand presence through the UK (I bet it struggle to do this) but it is still a risk nonetheless.
bmi on the other hand is not constrained in this way and so avoids this pitfall.
Again, I'm no expert...but this is PPRuNe after all!
Would be very interested to here from an expert on these things those to either deny or confirm this assertion/belief.
Join Date: Apr 2002
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I can remember BD for long enough to remember when LHR-MME was introduced as the first service into LHR. Over the years I watched the rise of what was a good company basing its offering on a solid structure of routes into LHR The routes operated seven days a week and service standards on all fronts were high. Through all of those years, I've been a regular customer of LH which also operates a solid structure of routes reliably seven days a week.
I'm not sure when BD started to go wrong but it certainly accelerated out of all control in the last 3-4 years when it was unclear what the offering was and the route structure was piecemeal and unreliable. Demoralised staff have in the main stopped offering the level of service BD was noted for and I don't blame them. I doubt I would want to turn up for work in the mornings.
I don't know where BD is going but some of the routes now being offered in partnership with LH - TXL and MXP and today's announcement about LX - GVA give me hope that the European network may be a priority again. I do hope so. Reestablishing a presence on some existing routes with proper C & Y service e.g. AMS instead of offering a frequency that is useless for business and concentrating on some routes that challenge BA particularly to Spain in the wake of the IB tie up may also make sense.
BD must start to offer something customers want to buy though and start doing things like interlining bags again. It will never be possible to compete with the likes of FR on price so they must offer a high standard of service to customers instead. If LX could recover from where they were then why should BD not - but in part this is up to the staff working day by day - start selling your company as great again and people like me will begin to see a difference!
Last, isnt' it time for a rebrand, the current one is a disaster which would be best buried and forgotten as it would seem to be associated with failure rather than success. All over the world, I still hear of British Midland and many Star Alliance signs still have it on. It means something rather than three meaningless letters. Failing the want to be British Midland, there's always Lufthansa Britannia!
I'm not sure when BD started to go wrong but it certainly accelerated out of all control in the last 3-4 years when it was unclear what the offering was and the route structure was piecemeal and unreliable. Demoralised staff have in the main stopped offering the level of service BD was noted for and I don't blame them. I doubt I would want to turn up for work in the mornings.
I don't know where BD is going but some of the routes now being offered in partnership with LH - TXL and MXP and today's announcement about LX - GVA give me hope that the European network may be a priority again. I do hope so. Reestablishing a presence on some existing routes with proper C & Y service e.g. AMS instead of offering a frequency that is useless for business and concentrating on some routes that challenge BA particularly to Spain in the wake of the IB tie up may also make sense.
BD must start to offer something customers want to buy though and start doing things like interlining bags again. It will never be possible to compete with the likes of FR on price so they must offer a high standard of service to customers instead. If LX could recover from where they were then why should BD not - but in part this is up to the staff working day by day - start selling your company as great again and people like me will begin to see a difference!
Last, isnt' it time for a rebrand, the current one is a disaster which would be best buried and forgotten as it would seem to be associated with failure rather than success. All over the world, I still hear of British Midland and many Star Alliance signs still have it on. It means something rather than three meaningless letters. Failing the want to be British Midland, there's always Lufthansa Britannia!
The introduction of LHR-GVA from January is the first of a few moves of Heathrow slots across to Star Alliance partners, apparently at the expense of LHR-MAN services. LHR-BRU will be going to SN Brussels Airlines as part of the announcements later this week. It's regrettably nothing more than an asset strip, which is most unfortunate. The interesting thing later this week will be to see what the plans are left for the rump of bmi after this process has finished, and what will be done with the surplus E145s being removed from the Heathrow schedule.
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LHR 145
It would be nice to see them at BHX replacing baby on the domestics at a scheduled frequency that gives decent competition with Flybe. That would leave the 2 remaining 737 to do the longer once a day routes.
Centre cities
Centre cities
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Having been employed by bmi for over 10 years I have witnessed first hand the outcome of some of the management decisions. Whilst I do not always agree with them we (staff) have very little option but to carry them out wether we agree or not. I understand why these decisions were made, at the time, but feel the company has got itself into such a mish-mash no-one (and I include the staff) know if we are Arthur or Martha !
One major problem is that newer staff into the industry have only ever experienced the "lower" levels of service we are having to offer and therefore dont know any better. It's sad but true. As for the name,
British Caledonian was known as "British Caledonian" but also referred to as "BCaL" , there was not a problem with that so I cant see why we had to change, bring back "bmi British Midland" , offer frequent flights with reasonable fares which can sustain a good level of customer service and ADVERTISE effectively...tell people where we fly and what we offer and do so in all areas, not just the south east !
Rant over !
One major problem is that newer staff into the industry have only ever experienced the "lower" levels of service we are having to offer and therefore dont know any better. It's sad but true. As for the name,
British Caledonian was known as "British Caledonian" but also referred to as "BCaL" , there was not a problem with that so I cant see why we had to change, bring back "bmi British Midland" , offer frequent flights with reasonable fares which can sustain a good level of customer service and ADVERTISE effectively...tell people where we fly and what we offer and do so in all areas, not just the south east !
Rant over !
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They should have never dumped Diamond Service. That was what the customers loved.
Should have learnt from the old adage, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'
Should have learnt from the old adage, 'If it ain't broke, don't fix it'
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Agree, Little Blue;
They could have tailored the product to suit the economy at the time, instead the completely changed it, thus unsettling the punters because they no longer knew what to expect when they came onboard. The New Business Model - NBM (informally known as Nigel's Big Mistake) confused the hell out of everyone when it was first introduced. I was flying on its first day of operation. Someone (obviously upon instruction from an accountant somewhere - 'wonder who that was?'
) decided that all of the bars should be counted before starting the service.-(sorry, don't ask me why)- of course being bmi it had to be done manually -(those computer thingies that everybody else uses cost lots of money, you know). That resulted in the aircraft flying its 1hr15 sector plus 20 mins. on the ground at destination while all of the cabin crew diligently counted everything, as instructed. - the passengers got nowt, nothing, nada.
Even when the requirement to count everything was dropped, they were still so obsessed with saving money that only enough food was loaded to sell to 10% of the booked pax. figure for the day.I know this to be correct; I phoned the catering manager directly to query this apparent oversight & was told it was their stated "policy". I would regularly operate LHR-PMI-LHR booked full -i.e. approx. 300 pax to transport throughout the day, with only 30 hot bits of food to sell for the whole day. Of course by the time we were over Northern France, and the cabin crew were 8 or 9 rows down the aircraft, all of the food had been sold & everyone else had to go without, even the pax. on the return leg, so fixated were they with saving money rather than generating revenue.
Someone was responsible for that crazy scenario, and I bet they are still in a job. This is the kind of bullsh*t management that the airline has struggled under for the past ten years or so. I really hope the next lot have got their heads screwed on better than the last shower.
skip.rat.
They could have tailored the product to suit the economy at the time, instead the completely changed it, thus unsettling the punters because they no longer knew what to expect when they came onboard. The New Business Model - NBM (informally known as Nigel's Big Mistake) confused the hell out of everyone when it was first introduced. I was flying on its first day of operation. Someone (obviously upon instruction from an accountant somewhere - 'wonder who that was?'
) decided that all of the bars should be counted before starting the service.-(sorry, don't ask me why)- of course being bmi it had to be done manually -(those computer thingies that everybody else uses cost lots of money, you know). That resulted in the aircraft flying its 1hr15 sector plus 20 mins. on the ground at destination while all of the cabin crew diligently counted everything, as instructed. - the passengers got nowt, nothing, nada.Even when the requirement to count everything was dropped, they were still so obsessed with saving money that only enough food was loaded to sell to 10% of the booked pax. figure for the day.I know this to be correct; I phoned the catering manager directly to query this apparent oversight & was told it was their stated "policy". I would regularly operate LHR-PMI-LHR booked full -i.e. approx. 300 pax to transport throughout the day, with only 30 hot bits of food to sell for the whole day. Of course by the time we were over Northern France, and the cabin crew were 8 or 9 rows down the aircraft, all of the food had been sold & everyone else had to go without, even the pax. on the return leg, so fixated were they with saving money rather than generating revenue.
Someone was responsible for that crazy scenario, and I bet they are still in a job. This is the kind of bullsh*t management that the airline has struggled under for the past ten years or so. I really hope the next lot have got their heads screwed on better than the last shower.
skip.rat.
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I have a bit of a story about BMI too, being a passenger.
Basically I wanted to book a flight for my girlfriend, LHR to EDI after she had flown in from Asia (she's not from UK). This would have been the first time I saw her in 6 months. We're both students so money was a problem, however we managed to get her a flight with Qatar landing in LHR - the only flight left that would have worked for her. We had to do everything last minute as we had just got her visa, and if I didn't see her this time, because our uni holidays, I wouldn't have seen her for another 4 months as we couldn't afford the tickets getting more expensive day by day. With this, there was only 1 flight that we could have got her from LHR to EDI. That was with BMI, and it even involved her having to wait 10 hours overnight in the airport and it was already in the late £xx's, the price went up every day and pretty fast.
So, I called up BMI to book the BMI flight for her. Couldn't use her card as her debit card wasn't recognised. OK, I said to the girl on the phone - I'll use my debit card. (maestro). I didn't/don't have a credit card. Was then told by her I couldn't use my debit card as she would have to show it at check in, and if she couldn't show it - she wouldn't be allowed to board the plane. Ok, we didn't have any time to waste because, as I said before, the ticket was getting too expensive. She held all the details and said she will call me back in a few hours once I find out how to put the money on another card - which I didn't have so i'd have to use someone's credit card.
Cue a few hours later just as I was about to go to put the money on another card, and a guy working for BMI calls me. "No, you don't have to pay using another card. You can use your maestro for your girlfriend as she is travelling after x amount of days which means the payment would have already been cleared, therefore no problem". He also said that the girl who called me before was wrong in what she said. Brilliant - finally knew I would be seeing my girlfriend for the first time in ages. Booked the flight for her and didn't need to worry about anything before.
..at least that's what I thought. 30 minutes later, the girl calls me back up. "Mr x. I told you that you cannot use your maestro card for your girlfriend". She went on to say that she would not be allowed to board the plane at all, and made that clear to me. I told her what her colleague told me on the phone, then she said HE was wrong, he is new and he didn't know what he was talking about. She was also talking pretty nastily to me, even laughing at me when I asked her to refund me the charge! She said i'd have to wait 1 week or so to get the money back - 1 week we didn't have at all as I had no other money and that ticket was the ONLY ticket we could have got my girlfriend. So it was looking like my girlfriend would be arriving in LHR with no way to get up here to Edinburgh. I should state that train/bus was not an option at this time.
Whatever solution I came up with on the phone to her, she talked it down and she even started to get sarcastic and annoyed at me - this was me, keeping calm thinking that if I done that, she might just do something that would sort it all out.
I told her that it wasn't my fault at all as her colleague had told me that there would be NO problem. I told her that she was working for BMI, she knew the situation, so she could put a note on the system when my girlfriend checks-in at LHR allowing her to board the plane. Nope, she laughed at that too and said she wouldn't (not couldn't), wouldn't do that for me. She couldn't wait to get off the phone and she basically ended it very quickly with me completely confused about the whole situation. She said she would call me later once I have found a solution.
I ended up calling the head office for BMI and told one girl the situation. She only had to hear it once, and 2 minutes later she had put a note on the system so that when my girlfriend checked-in there would be no problem and she wouldn't need to show my maestro card to get on the plane. She was brilliant.
So, that same day as I went to the bank (to sort out student stuff) and I got a call from the girl at BMI (the one that had an agenda against me). I told her that I spoke to a lady at BMI's head office and that she put a note in the system. Cue her telling me that, no, she couldn't do that and she AGAIN continued to tell me that my girlfriend wouldn't be able to board the plane. After talking for a minute, she basically said something like "OK, up to you, if you want to take that risk then you can, however your girlfriend will not be able to board the plane". Last time I heard of her. Thank god.
1 week or so later, my girlfriend boarded the flight LHR-EDI and I was able to see her the first time in a very long time.
BMI - NO customer service at all. Also, i'm not trying to be funny, it is very hard to understand them over the phone when calling customer service/reservations/BMI diamond club or whatever. I must have called 5-6 times in total over a long period of time, and i'm also answered by someone with a very hard accent to understand - possibly Indian?
sorry for the long post.
Basically I wanted to book a flight for my girlfriend, LHR to EDI after she had flown in from Asia (she's not from UK). This would have been the first time I saw her in 6 months. We're both students so money was a problem, however we managed to get her a flight with Qatar landing in LHR - the only flight left that would have worked for her. We had to do everything last minute as we had just got her visa, and if I didn't see her this time, because our uni holidays, I wouldn't have seen her for another 4 months as we couldn't afford the tickets getting more expensive day by day. With this, there was only 1 flight that we could have got her from LHR to EDI. That was with BMI, and it even involved her having to wait 10 hours overnight in the airport and it was already in the late £xx's, the price went up every day and pretty fast.
So, I called up BMI to book the BMI flight for her. Couldn't use her card as her debit card wasn't recognised. OK, I said to the girl on the phone - I'll use my debit card. (maestro). I didn't/don't have a credit card. Was then told by her I couldn't use my debit card as she would have to show it at check in, and if she couldn't show it - she wouldn't be allowed to board the plane. Ok, we didn't have any time to waste because, as I said before, the ticket was getting too expensive. She held all the details and said she will call me back in a few hours once I find out how to put the money on another card - which I didn't have so i'd have to use someone's credit card.
Cue a few hours later just as I was about to go to put the money on another card, and a guy working for BMI calls me. "No, you don't have to pay using another card. You can use your maestro for your girlfriend as she is travelling after x amount of days which means the payment would have already been cleared, therefore no problem". He also said that the girl who called me before was wrong in what she said. Brilliant - finally knew I would be seeing my girlfriend for the first time in ages. Booked the flight for her and didn't need to worry about anything before.
..at least that's what I thought. 30 minutes later, the girl calls me back up. "Mr x. I told you that you cannot use your maestro card for your girlfriend". She went on to say that she would not be allowed to board the plane at all, and made that clear to me. I told her what her colleague told me on the phone, then she said HE was wrong, he is new and he didn't know what he was talking about. She was also talking pretty nastily to me, even laughing at me when I asked her to refund me the charge! She said i'd have to wait 1 week or so to get the money back - 1 week we didn't have at all as I had no other money and that ticket was the ONLY ticket we could have got my girlfriend. So it was looking like my girlfriend would be arriving in LHR with no way to get up here to Edinburgh. I should state that train/bus was not an option at this time.
Whatever solution I came up with on the phone to her, she talked it down and she even started to get sarcastic and annoyed at me - this was me, keeping calm thinking that if I done that, she might just do something that would sort it all out.
I told her that it wasn't my fault at all as her colleague had told me that there would be NO problem. I told her that she was working for BMI, she knew the situation, so she could put a note on the system when my girlfriend checks-in at LHR allowing her to board the plane. Nope, she laughed at that too and said she wouldn't (not couldn't), wouldn't do that for me. She couldn't wait to get off the phone and she basically ended it very quickly with me completely confused about the whole situation. She said she would call me later once I have found a solution.
I ended up calling the head office for BMI and told one girl the situation. She only had to hear it once, and 2 minutes later she had put a note on the system so that when my girlfriend checked-in there would be no problem and she wouldn't need to show my maestro card to get on the plane. She was brilliant.
So, that same day as I went to the bank (to sort out student stuff) and I got a call from the girl at BMI (the one that had an agenda against me). I told her that I spoke to a lady at BMI's head office and that she put a note in the system. Cue her telling me that, no, she couldn't do that and she AGAIN continued to tell me that my girlfriend wouldn't be able to board the plane. After talking for a minute, she basically said something like "OK, up to you, if you want to take that risk then you can, however your girlfriend will not be able to board the plane". Last time I heard of her. Thank god.
1 week or so later, my girlfriend boarded the flight LHR-EDI and I was able to see her the first time in a very long time.
BMI - NO customer service at all. Also, i'm not trying to be funny, it is very hard to understand them over the phone when calling customer service/reservations/BMI diamond club or whatever. I must have called 5-6 times in total over a long period of time, and i'm also answered by someone with a very hard accent to understand - possibly Indian?
sorry for the long post.
James (bankrupted Ansett) Hogan
Ansett was in the process of bankrupting itself before Air NZ bought it, the (belated) due diligence showed just how bad it all was and JH was the figurehead of the team financed by an Aussie industrialist and some Texan VC people to restart the operation.
Which never happened because the finance people couldn't agree on whatever.
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Another move by bmi that wasn't such a good idea. Just after they outsourced the call centre to India, I tried to book a ticket from Heathrow to Leeds and was told that I would have to fly to Edinburgh first and then EDI to LBA. On remonsrating that a direct flight was available I was informed that no direct flights were operated LHR-LBA. Gave up trying to explain and also got frustrated trying to understand the accent.........hope it s improved since.
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I've been in and around the airline industry for many years, although now retired, and always held BD in very high regard However, in the last couple of years their product quality has slipped terribly. I recently did some consultancy work in London which necessitated several round trips from Edinburgh. Most were on BA but the last had to be BD due to timings. Something like £400 return and I had to buy my own drink and snack onboard! Added to that the cabin crew - on both directions - clearly showed their "couldn't care less" attitude towards the passengers - on the return flight I was "lucky" to get served; passenger in the rows behind didn't because they had "run out of time", although it was a good ten minutes before the fasten seat belts sign came on. Appalling.
Somebody needs to grab this airline by the scruff of the neck and give it a damned good shake.
Somebody needs to grab this airline by the scruff of the neck and give it a damned good shake.
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Reading the comments above makes me want to cry. I've been with bmi for seven and a half years and in that time we've gone from a full service carrier, with excellent customer service on the ground and in the air to becoming a complete shambles. We're told what must be, i.e. the NBM and then expected to carry out what is basically a load of tosh.
The managment have done their level best to destroy what was a superior carrier.
Seven and a half years ago we had business cabins on all domestic services and offered such things as afternoon tea, which the pax LOVED! Our MAN/LHR flights were always rammed, not so anymore. The company is in a mess and when we dared to say so we were told that "they" the consultants and marketing wallahs knew better than the people at the sharp end. I.e. Us, the people who talk to and serve our passengers, those of us who know what our frequent flyers really want.
Good luck tomorrow all.
The managment have done their level best to destroy what was a superior carrier.
Seven and a half years ago we had business cabins on all domestic services and offered such things as afternoon tea, which the pax LOVED! Our MAN/LHR flights were always rammed, not so anymore. The company is in a mess and when we dared to say so we were told that "they" the consultants and marketing wallahs knew better than the people at the sharp end. I.e. Us, the people who talk to and serve our passengers, those of us who know what our frequent flyers really want.
Good luck tomorrow all.
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What to do with those spare Embraers
As has been suggested, send some to Birmingham. These can then service the Edinburgh, Belfast, Amsterdam and Glasgow routes, as well as the existing Aberdeen route, thus leaving BMI Baby to fly as many routes as they want from its underwhelming East Midlands base.