Aer Lingus - 5
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,114
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If you want to see what happens when airline workers give up their T&C's to "save" their airline you only have to look to the USA. The ones that have survived are all in Chapter 11 and hell don't the UAL pilots hold 40 odd percent of the shares in the company yet how many thousand were recently sacked? Can't see the logic myself in helping an inept management improve its bottom line through cost reduction per se when they could get creative and try growing the top line for once.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Lithuania
Posts: 146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aer Lingus can not even make their website work. Connecting flights from Vilnius to New York are on sale for several weeks now but still imposible to book due to errors on aerlingus.com (although they are available in travel agencies at inflated cost). And no one seems to notice or care to fix it.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Ireland nowadays
Posts: 1,440
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm not sure I can see the logic in CPT. There isn't really anywhere beyond it to connect to, so everyone on the flight has to have CPT as their final destination. Are there really enough Irish people who want to travel to South Africa and South Africans who want to travel to Ireland to make the route profitable?
Most existing TA routes rely on people travelling beyond the aircraft's final destination to make money.
The real prize would probably be to find a way of grabbing a share of the Ireland-Australia market beyond ferrying people to Heathrow, Amsterdam and Frankfurt. Ideally, this would have been a flight to Hong Kong and a link up with Cathay. But we all know Dublin's runway problems. I assume Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok are out of range? I suppose an alternative could be Mumbai. There's been talk of Air India flying to Dublin, so maybe get in there first?
Finally, if Aer Lingus want to take a chance on long-haul routes, they shouldn't write off Cork-New York, especially if there's talk of leaving Shannon. While Cork's runway problems are even worse than Dublin's, New York in an A330-200 should be doable.
Most existing TA routes rely on people travelling beyond the aircraft's final destination to make money.
The real prize would probably be to find a way of grabbing a share of the Ireland-Australia market beyond ferrying people to Heathrow, Amsterdam and Frankfurt. Ideally, this would have been a flight to Hong Kong and a link up with Cathay. But we all know Dublin's runway problems. I assume Singapore, Kuala Lumpur and Bangkok are out of range? I suppose an alternative could be Mumbai. There's been talk of Air India flying to Dublin, so maybe get in there first?
Finally, if Aer Lingus want to take a chance on long-haul routes, they shouldn't write off Cork-New York, especially if there's talk of leaving Shannon. While Cork's runway problems are even worse than Dublin's, New York in an A330-200 should be doable.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: EU
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alm1, aerlingus.com always works fine for me.
Just tried Vilinius - JFK and worked fine for me, here's what I got:
Price Flight DetailsClick on the flight number for flight details including flight time, stopover, terminal information and aircraft type. Flight Info. Departing Arriving Fare Seat Map
AER LINGUS EI397
non-stop Vilnius
21:15 Fri 20 Nov 2009 Dublin
22:35 Fri 20 Nov 2009 LowFare View Map
AER LINGUS EI105
non-stop Dublin
10:30 Sat 21 Nov 2009 New York
13:10 Sat 21 Nov 2009 LowFare View Map
AER LINGUS EI108
non-stop New York
20:50 Tue 01 Dec 2009 Dublin
08:30 Wed 02 Dec 2009 LowFare View Map
AER LINGUS EI396
non-stop Dublin
15:10 Wed 02 Dec 2009 Vilnius
20:20 Wed 02 Dec 2009 LowFare View Map
Price for this JourneyPrices are shown in Litas
Passengers Fare p.p. Taxes & Charges Cost p.p. Total
1 Adult 1,264.00 215.76 1,479.76 1,479.76
Handling Fee 34.00 34.00
TOTAL LTL 1,513.76
Restrictions/EndorsementsPlease confirm you have read and accepted the terms and conditions by ticking the box: Baggage Notice: Restrictions/charges may apply for checked bags, travel with pets/animals, sports equipment or musical instruments and/or excess bags. See baggage allowance rules and charges for details.
Just tried Vilinius - JFK and worked fine for me, here's what I got:
Price Flight DetailsClick on the flight number for flight details including flight time, stopover, terminal information and aircraft type. Flight Info. Departing Arriving Fare Seat Map
AER LINGUS EI397
non-stop Vilnius
21:15 Fri 20 Nov 2009 Dublin
22:35 Fri 20 Nov 2009 LowFare View Map
AER LINGUS EI105
non-stop Dublin
10:30 Sat 21 Nov 2009 New York
13:10 Sat 21 Nov 2009 LowFare View Map
AER LINGUS EI108
non-stop New York
20:50 Tue 01 Dec 2009 Dublin
08:30 Wed 02 Dec 2009 LowFare View Map
AER LINGUS EI396
non-stop Dublin
15:10 Wed 02 Dec 2009 Vilnius
20:20 Wed 02 Dec 2009 LowFare View Map
Price for this JourneyPrices are shown in Litas
Passengers Fare p.p. Taxes & Charges Cost p.p. Total
1 Adult 1,264.00 215.76 1,479.76 1,479.76
Handling Fee 34.00 34.00
TOTAL LTL 1,513.76
Restrictions/EndorsementsPlease confirm you have read and accepted the terms and conditions by ticking the box: Baggage Notice: Restrictions/charges may apply for checked bags, travel with pets/animals, sports equipment or musical instruments and/or excess bags. See baggage allowance rules and charges for details.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: nirvana
Posts: 302
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Can't see the logic myself in helping an inept management improve its bottom line through cost reduction per se when they could get creative and try growing the top line for once."
Maybe...but does that approach not also lead inevitably to loss of jobs/airline. Its a different world now and a different industry and I can't see how staff at previous flag carriers can expect to hold onto terms and conditions and their jobs. Only my opinion but something will have to give in those cases and to me thats either jobs or the airline itself. I know i've taken a pay cut recently just to hold onto my job (work in air freight).. Much and all as it pains me to take the cut...I'd still prefer to have a job and an some income than depend on the dole..thats just me though.
Maybe...but does that approach not also lead inevitably to loss of jobs/airline. Its a different world now and a different industry and I can't see how staff at previous flag carriers can expect to hold onto terms and conditions and their jobs. Only my opinion but something will have to give in those cases and to me thats either jobs or the airline itself. I know i've taken a pay cut recently just to hold onto my job (work in air freight).. Much and all as it pains me to take the cut...I'd still prefer to have a job and an some income than depend on the dole..thats just me though.
Join Date: May 2004
Location: EU
Posts: 10
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
alm1,
Very true! Apologies, had hope I had been able to help you. First time round I just picked a random date which happened to fall in winter season, just tried doing a booking for the summer season, and as you said, it doesn't work!!
Very true! Apologies, had hope I had been able to help you. First time round I just picked a random date which happened to fall in winter season, just tried doing a booking for the summer season, and as you said, it doesn't work!!
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 28
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
CPT would not make any commercial sense for EI. Limited to holiday traffic with very little business traffic. JNB would have better prospects. JNB is becoming a regional hub for central and southern africa and has better prospects for business travel and freight.
As far as getting a share of the austrailan market the best option would be a Jetblue type deal with Jetstar through SIN or with Airasia through KUL. This would give passengers the access to between 3 and 5 austrailian destinations.
EI should also look at the possibility of using an A320 trans atlantic from ORK and SNN. A 320 with 2 rows of business class seating 8 seats and about 120 economy seats. With those sort of pax numbers it should leave enough weight available for 7-7.5 hours of fuel.
As far as getting a share of the austrailan market the best option would be a Jetblue type deal with Jetstar through SIN or with Airasia through KUL. This would give passengers the access to between 3 and 5 austrailian destinations.
EI should also look at the possibility of using an A320 trans atlantic from ORK and SNN. A 320 with 2 rows of business class seating 8 seats and about 120 economy seats. With those sort of pax numbers it should leave enough weight available for 7-7.5 hours of fuel.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ireland
Posts: 1,455
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ork Jfk
A 330 even three times per week from Cork to JFK would capture a lot of the business traffic transiting via LHR and AMS. If SNN to JFK BOS and ORD is profitable and I accept that's a big IF then ORK JFK should work.
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: uk
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
No disrespect to anyone, but its getting tired of discussing routes that have never happened and lets face it, will never happen (certainly in the next 3 years). So CPT, HKG, BKK, SIN etc etc - it aint gonna happen ! Period. Im Irish, but believe me its depressing even thinking about it, it would be great of course but its not going to happen, so its best to move on.
On another note, I note Etihad are advertising Johannesburg as a route from Dublin via Abu Dhabi. Who in their right mind would fly to south africa via the UAE ???. South Africa is directly south of ireland. Looking at an online map, it seems about the most backward and ridiculous possible way of getting to south africa. Its almost as bad as flying to Oz via Greenland. They need to drop their fares a bit on BKK and Manila and add more frequency on Beijing - god I feel like charging them for my words of wisdom
I also never really understood why people would choose them over say KLM or Lufthansa or AF when flying to asia. I know they have excellent service and IFE but the thought of having to fly for 6 or 7 hours and than get off for another 2 or 3 hours and than back on for another 6 or 7 hours seems like hell to me. Surely the better option is a 1 hour flight to mainland Europe and than a 10 / 11 hour or so flight to asia - without interuption. I guess the convenience to Oz is a big driver for them.
On another note, I note Etihad are advertising Johannesburg as a route from Dublin via Abu Dhabi. Who in their right mind would fly to south africa via the UAE ???. South Africa is directly south of ireland. Looking at an online map, it seems about the most backward and ridiculous possible way of getting to south africa. Its almost as bad as flying to Oz via Greenland. They need to drop their fares a bit on BKK and Manila and add more frequency on Beijing - god I feel like charging them for my words of wisdom
I also never really understood why people would choose them over say KLM or Lufthansa or AF when flying to asia. I know they have excellent service and IFE but the thought of having to fly for 6 or 7 hours and than get off for another 2 or 3 hours and than back on for another 6 or 7 hours seems like hell to me. Surely the better option is a 1 hour flight to mainland Europe and than a 10 / 11 hour or so flight to asia - without interuption. I guess the convenience to Oz is a big driver for them.
Sad fact is writing has been on the wall for a considerable period of time regarding EI but everybody seems to want to ignore the reality.
Profit warnings were occuring in early 2008 and action should have occurred quickly then.
Reality is now here and quite probably by the end of 2009 more than half the cash proceeds of flotation will be gone with no viable plan to ensure the longer term survival.
CEO's should be more interested in ensuring the success of the company going forward rather than writing in to your contract big pay offs if it gets sold, succesful CEO's get head hunted and rewarded well because they bring success to everyone.
Shareholders negotiating position with a buyer has pretty much evaporated as why buy now when you wait it out and pick stuff up on the cheap. Any buyer knows big cuts would have to be made and that will eat into any cash.
Profit warnings were occuring in early 2008 and action should have occurred quickly then.
Reality is now here and quite probably by the end of 2009 more than half the cash proceeds of flotation will be gone with no viable plan to ensure the longer term survival.
CEO's should be more interested in ensuring the success of the company going forward rather than writing in to your contract big pay offs if it gets sold, succesful CEO's get head hunted and rewarded well because they bring success to everyone.
Shareholders negotiating position with a buyer has pretty much evaporated as why buy now when you wait it out and pick stuff up on the cheap. Any buyer knows big cuts would have to be made and that will eat into any cash.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Dublin
Posts: 987
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ire 105, Dublin - JNB with Etihad is infinately better than DUB-FRA-JNB with the likes of LH. People complain about Ryanair but LH is cramped and in economy you get to sit for 10 hours with no in flight entertainment and for that in economy they would have charged us €1500 more than Etihad.
Transit in AUH is infinitely better than the likes of LHR. One stop Singapore, Melbourne etc
How could EI have thought they could have succeeded on a route by offering a cul de sac service to Dubai?
Transit in AUH is infinitely better than the likes of LHR. One stop Singapore, Melbourne etc
How could EI have thought they could have succeeded on a route by offering a cul de sac service to Dubai?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Belt 7
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by European flyer
Just tried Vilinius - JFK and worked fine for me, here's what I got...
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London
Posts: 278
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I see on www.theairdb.com that EI are to restart Dub-LAX. Anyone confirm this?
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
EI-RB
Perhaps BA do not cater themselves, but they have a significant ownership in the company that does cater for them, GateGourmet. LH own their own catering company, LHG Skychefs.
EI could choose to look at their ground operations another way and take on handling of other carriers at DUB. As few airlines night-stop at DUB anyway this would reduce the amount of staff paid to sit around and do nothing waiting for the return of EI aircraft from Europe and the UK.
EI have cut to the bone, what has been forgotten is that there are two ways to make profits. Sell more or reduce costs. EI have done little to sell more, other than insurance, baggage and drinks/snacks to passengers. They can't keep cutting forever. the US airlines have tried that, it just does not work.
Brian.
Perhaps BA do not cater themselves, but they have a significant ownership in the company that does cater for them, GateGourmet. LH own their own catering company, LHG Skychefs.
EI could choose to look at their ground operations another way and take on handling of other carriers at DUB. As few airlines night-stop at DUB anyway this would reduce the amount of staff paid to sit around and do nothing waiting for the return of EI aircraft from Europe and the UK.
EI have cut to the bone, what has been forgotten is that there are two ways to make profits. Sell more or reduce costs. EI have done little to sell more, other than insurance, baggage and drinks/snacks to passengers. They can't keep cutting forever. the US airlines have tried that, it just does not work.
Brian.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You suggest taking on the ground handling of other airlines? Ground handling is a blood bath with Servisar / Menzies / Aviance bleeding red ink left right and centre bu undercutting and handling at a loss. Yet you suggest a highly unionised legacy carrier should get into this? Brian I have to say that's insane.
BA got out of that business at Heathrow years ago and at Gatwick I believe it's really just Air Southwest operating an old BA route they look after.
Does EI even need self handling outside Dublin? Would it not be a better idea to outsource ground handling even at Dublin?
No they don't mate. It's a US firm forever teetering on the brink of insolvency.
BA got out of that business at Heathrow years ago and at Gatwick I believe it's really just Air Southwest operating an old BA route they look after.
Does EI even need self handling outside Dublin? Would it not be a better idea to outsource ground handling even at Dublin?
BA do not cater themselves, but they have a significant ownership in the company that does cater for them, GateGourmet.
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
Posts: 1,080
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My point was not that EI have staff working shift patterns. Once the US arrivals have arrived and the European services have pushed back there will still be ground staff paid, on-site, not doing a whole lot awaiting the arrival of the return services. Obviously EI, or any outsourced handling company, would need to employ enough staff to handle these fights. In those downtimes between current banks of flights the contenintal carriers who do not night-stop at DUB arrive. This is the type of business EI should be looking at. If EI have the people to do it already on-site, have all the equipment already on-site this would add very little cost and quite profitable, even if EI undercut the other handlers. This is about growing revenue and improving cashflow, something EI needs to do desperately.
Brian.
Brian.