Aer Lingus - 5
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Aer Lingus are not in trouble.
Ryanair claim to have €2 Billion in the bank while Aer Lingus have €800 Million. Relative to their size Aer Lingus are better capitalised and when you look at their financial commitments (140 aircraft in the next 4 years) there is no comparision.
This is an understandable attempt to make the company leaner, that's all.
Ryanair claim to have €2 Billion in the bank while Aer Lingus have €800 Million. Relative to their size Aer Lingus are better capitalised and when you look at their financial commitments (140 aircraft in the next 4 years) there is no comparision.
This is an understandable attempt to make the company leaner, that's all.
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FR do the lower than cost tickets by juggling it against airport charge discounts and a set percentage they put away for advertising. Word of mouth is the most powerful advertising medium there is and the cheap tickets exploits it to the maximum.
if you can make the numbers work it's good business and gets your brand/website the visitors it needs. There are also lockouts on busy periods so it helps to keep that load factor up on days when it could be a problem.
if you can make the numbers work it's good business and gets your brand/website the visitors it needs. There are also lockouts on busy periods so it helps to keep that load factor up on days when it could be a problem.
Join Date: Jun 2004
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As an Aer Lingus manager said in the press a few weeks ago "If Aer Lingus are sneezing then other airlines have the flu"!
Aer Lingus are fine and will ride this crises out. However one thing you will learn about Aer Lingus (like many other airlines) is that they will use any excuse to drop operations which they do not want. This time round it is their ground operations they want rid of. Its all about creating a leaner operation and boosting profits and that is exactly what Aer Lingus are doing here. BFS was set up with no ground staff. LHR had its ground ops unit sold off 9 years ago to Swissport, SNN is totally over staffed now that most of the routes are gone from there and ORK has been kept at a very trimmed level despite a certain degree of expansion taking place down there.
Now as former ground staff of EI in DUB I fear they may be shooting themselves in the foot. To lose your identity in your home base is a major decision to make. They have some very long serving and dedicated employees in Dublin (and ORK and SNN) and they have kept the operations ticking over throughout all the changes of the last 8 years.
I fear we will be hearing from the unions in forms of work stoppages very soon!
Aer Lingus are fine and will ride this crises out. However one thing you will learn about Aer Lingus (like many other airlines) is that they will use any excuse to drop operations which they do not want. This time round it is their ground operations they want rid of. Its all about creating a leaner operation and boosting profits and that is exactly what Aer Lingus are doing here. BFS was set up with no ground staff. LHR had its ground ops unit sold off 9 years ago to Swissport, SNN is totally over staffed now that most of the routes are gone from there and ORK has been kept at a very trimmed level despite a certain degree of expansion taking place down there.
Now as former ground staff of EI in DUB I fear they may be shooting themselves in the foot. To lose your identity in your home base is a major decision to make. They have some very long serving and dedicated employees in Dublin (and ORK and SNN) and they have kept the operations ticking over throughout all the changes of the last 8 years.
I fear we will be hearing from the unions in forms of work stoppages very soon!
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Aer Lingus is NOT Alitalia and the sooner people stop making the comparison the better.
Aer Lingus has significant cash reserves. The employees have already made a significant contribution to the changes that have thus far taken place in the company and if there is industrial unrest (which I am sure there will be) it will not bring the company to its knees in the long term.
Aer Lingus has significant cash reserves. The employees have already made a significant contribution to the changes that have thus far taken place in the company and if there is industrial unrest (which I am sure there will be) it will not bring the company to its knees in the long term.
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Why this has turned into another Ryanair slagging match I just dont know.
this tread was about EI in trouble and if so how bad was it.
I guess its a good idea to slag off the man that is standing in the wings
to save 100's of jobs (IF) and note I said (IF) things go wrong.
I dont understand how people put Ryanair down after all we all know where they started and what they started with and where they are now and what they have now.
this tread was about EI in trouble and if so how bad was it.
I guess its a good idea to slag off the man that is standing in the wings
to save 100's of jobs (IF) and note I said (IF) things go wrong.
I dont understand how people put Ryanair down after all we all know where they started and what they started with and where they are now and what they have now.
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there are plenty of ways to make an airline efficient without letting O'Leary get his mucky paws on it. EI's problem is the staff are still deluded in some areas into believing they are a legacy operation. You can't play the low cost game with pax and play legacy in the office. Sooner or later it will be one or the other. All airlines that trade on the open markets face the same issues. If you give in a inch to management cutbacks they'll take the shirt off your back (and get a nice bonus with it). If you don't give in you run the risk of making the airline uncompetitive. Of course when times get good again, you never get back anything that was given up. Isn't it wonderful.
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Does Aer Lingus have hedged fuel?
If so, surely that will ringfence their viability, especially in light of the anticipated cost cutting, along with their €800m cash reserves??
If so, surely that will ringfence their viability, especially in light of the anticipated cost cutting, along with their €800m cash reserves??
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sorry am i missing something here, since when did aer lingus have 800 million in the bank or ryanair 2 billion for that matter!?i cant comment with any degree of certainty here so correct me if im wrong but how did an airline who spent a long time losing haemorraging money suddenly end up with 800 million?while i appreciate what your saying about the possibilty of ryanair stretching themselves with future expansion, but with aer lingus' huge cost base they are always going to struggle in tough times im afraid. they are going down a low cost route which must be really difficult with the way the company is structured. and yes i would feel far more secure in ryr.though im not sure i'd enjoy working for MOL
Any word on aer arann anyone?they must surely be feeling the heat too?
Any word on aer arann anyone?they must surely be feeling the heat too?
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Hi guys,
It is really funny to see that some people still question Ryanairs bussiness model. Faire d'Income, if you say like 'there is really more to that' referring to keeping costs down and making profits higher, you give the impression that you're some kind of airline manager or at least have some interess in it. Well, if you really know what you are talking about, I think that you will believe in Ryanair.
Management is key to a company's succes. An airline management sets goals in terms of what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve those goals. It is obvious what Ryanair's goals are and it is even more obvious that they are realising those goals for years now. But still you're questionning how on earth is it possible that they make profit if they ask 2.30 pound for a flight, although they are doing this already for years!? The answer is verry complicated and obviously I can't know the truth. But what I do know, in my humble experience as enterpreneur, is that is verry much possible! Just accept it, think about it how genious things have to be organised in that company to be profitable and learn from it for your own future
Have a nice afternoon
It is really funny to see that some people still question Ryanairs bussiness model. Faire d'Income, if you say like 'there is really more to that' referring to keeping costs down and making profits higher, you give the impression that you're some kind of airline manager or at least have some interess in it. Well, if you really know what you are talking about, I think that you will believe in Ryanair.
Management is key to a company's succes. An airline management sets goals in terms of what they want to achieve and how they want to achieve those goals. It is obvious what Ryanair's goals are and it is even more obvious that they are realising those goals for years now. But still you're questionning how on earth is it possible that they make profit if they ask 2.30 pound for a flight, although they are doing this already for years!? The answer is verry complicated and obviously I can't know the truth. But what I do know, in my humble experience as enterpreneur, is that is verry much possible! Just accept it, think about it how genious things have to be organised in that company to be profitable and learn from it for your own future
Have a nice afternoon
Join Date: Apr 2008
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EI cutting staff loose
From recent posts I dont believe that you are are in any quadrant more like living on the back side of the moon. FYI the official code for Aer Lingus is EI any fool knows that. Ryanair will carry approx 58 million pax this year do you know how many EI will carry?. Sounds to me that you work for EI hence your comments.
W. Walsh andM OLeary both say large numbers of airlines will be forced out business this winter, unfortunate for the people involved but this situation reminds me of the cull in the US, Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am all went to the wall plus many other carriers.
MOL knows what he is doing believe me, Ryanair will be around when you have retired
W. Walsh andM OLeary both say large numbers of airlines will be forced out business this winter, unfortunate for the people involved but this situation reminds me of the cull in the US, Braniff, Eastern, Pan Am all went to the wall plus many other carriers.
MOL knows what he is doing believe me, Ryanair will be around when you have retired
Join Date: Jun 2008
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EI being very clinical in applying life saving cuts!
Staff should be OK under TUPE, Transfer of Undertakings. I believe any other company taking over the EI ground handling function will have to employ existing staff under existing contracts for a defined period of time (is it 2 years) following the change.
Anyone know more about this employee protection legislation?
PS. Irish financial guru's suggesting it's a good time to buy Ryanair shares!
Staff should be OK under TUPE, Transfer of Undertakings. I believe any other company taking over the EI ground handling function will have to employ existing staff under existing contracts for a defined period of time (is it 2 years) following the change.
Anyone know more about this employee protection legislation?
PS. Irish financial guru's suggesting it's a good time to buy Ryanair shares!
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Guys, you need to calm down a little. The title here is a little bit dramatic. The situation in Aer Lingus is no different to any other airline in the world at the moment. However, the one thing Aer Lingus and Ryanair for that matter have is money in the bank. This is something Alatalia, XL and others don't. In Aer Lingus' case it is around the 800 million region and Ryanair 2 billion. If you count LHR slots into the equation it would bring EI's surplus to over a billion, which strangly enough grew by 50 million in first six months of the year despite the comany posting an operating loss of 22 million?
This is the perfect opportunity for airlines to cut staff numbers in areas they are not needed, and if i'm not mistaken didn't Willie Walsh announced similar plans to do just this at BA earlier this week.The siutation at the moment is just like post Sept 11th where airlines had an opportunity to get rid of the fat not needed. Aer Lingus in the past was a legacy carrier that had the legacy baggage that went it. To a certain extent it still does. They have managers supervising managers supervising more managers. The wage bill is just far too high and now is the perfect opportunity for managment to reduce this at a time when the market is so uncertain. The jobs that are affected are in the ground operations areas as highlighted in the newspaper article. They see outsourcing as a means to cut costs. Leaking a little bit of information to press helps get things rocking before dropping the bombshell. Make no mistake, it's not a coincidence that it appears in one of the national newpapers just a couple of weeks before an official announcement is made by the company.
I have a feeling another bombshell will be announced in a few weeks with possibly the closure of shannon. That will cause more of a stir if it happens.
As for Aer Lingus being in trouble, I'm afraid if you look at the figures from their recent presentation to the media then it looks like they are in a very healthy position and will be at the top end of those surviving the current crisis. And remember, they hedged quite a lot of their fuel sub $100 dollars last year, something other airlines didn't. With fuel back down at more economical figures it looks like they weren't exposed to the worst of it.
As for the Ryanair influence in the company, the reason Ryanair were unsuccesful was due to competition reasons and as far as I can see nothing has changed there. Aer lingus' short haul passenger numbers were up by 10% on last year. If they reduced then you could argue a case. However there is no way the European commision will allow one carrier to have practically sole rights and a monopoly controlling aviation passengers on an Island of only four million and I believe Ryanair know this. I wouldn't be surprised if MOL is talking up the whole takeover bid again in an attempt to get the shareprice up so that he sell out Ryanair's stake and write it off as a bad dream. Time will tell.
This is the perfect opportunity for airlines to cut staff numbers in areas they are not needed, and if i'm not mistaken didn't Willie Walsh announced similar plans to do just this at BA earlier this week.The siutation at the moment is just like post Sept 11th where airlines had an opportunity to get rid of the fat not needed. Aer Lingus in the past was a legacy carrier that had the legacy baggage that went it. To a certain extent it still does. They have managers supervising managers supervising more managers. The wage bill is just far too high and now is the perfect opportunity for managment to reduce this at a time when the market is so uncertain. The jobs that are affected are in the ground operations areas as highlighted in the newspaper article. They see outsourcing as a means to cut costs. Leaking a little bit of information to press helps get things rocking before dropping the bombshell. Make no mistake, it's not a coincidence that it appears in one of the national newpapers just a couple of weeks before an official announcement is made by the company.
I have a feeling another bombshell will be announced in a few weeks with possibly the closure of shannon. That will cause more of a stir if it happens.
As for Aer Lingus being in trouble, I'm afraid if you look at the figures from their recent presentation to the media then it looks like they are in a very healthy position and will be at the top end of those surviving the current crisis. And remember, they hedged quite a lot of their fuel sub $100 dollars last year, something other airlines didn't. With fuel back down at more economical figures it looks like they weren't exposed to the worst of it.
As for the Ryanair influence in the company, the reason Ryanair were unsuccesful was due to competition reasons and as far as I can see nothing has changed there. Aer lingus' short haul passenger numbers were up by 10% on last year. If they reduced then you could argue a case. However there is no way the European commision will allow one carrier to have practically sole rights and a monopoly controlling aviation passengers on an Island of only four million and I believe Ryanair know this. I wouldn't be surprised if MOL is talking up the whole takeover bid again in an attempt to get the shareprice up so that he sell out Ryanair's stake and write it off as a bad dream. Time will tell.
Last edited by Lord Lardy; 14th Sep 2008 at 18:02.
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The White Knight is Blue and Yellow.
and as far as I can see nothing has changed there
The wage bill is just far too high
when the market is so uncertain
Time will tell.
Aer Lingus has a brilliant future with Ryanair. That or oblivion.
Choose.
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I'll have to beg to differ with you on those points. I can't see Europe changing their minds, despite your grievances with the former Taoiseach. How can you honestly say that having a monopoly on on entire nation is good for competition. Business is business at the end of the day so why offer lower fares if you have no competitor to fend off. It is your responsiblity to your shareholders to maximise profits. Why give tickets away and jeprodise that unnecessarily if there is not need to. A single airline is not good for the consumer and it's not good for the country and people will only find this out if a takeover were to take place. The patriotic notion of a small country dominating the world of aviation is not everyone's dream. It's not Hollywood. On a personal note I am not anti Ryanair at all and I have flown many times with the company. What I am against from a consumer point of view is not having a choice.
Aer Lingus is far from being on their knees at the moment, and with them being a constant thorn in the side of Ryanair at Dublin, then they will always be something Ryanair want but may not get.
Aer Lingus is far from being on their knees at the moment, and with them being a constant thorn in the side of Ryanair at Dublin, then they will always be something Ryanair want but may not get.
Last edited by Lord Lardy; 14th Sep 2008 at 18:31.
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On a similiar gloomy thread it was remarked that a lot of people in this industry do not seem to have a great grasp of aviation finance and how it works or does not. However, it seems to mean very little in respect of what an airline has in the bank because if as BA have admitted it is losing £2.6 millions a day then in a very short time the relevance is how quick you can cut your outgoings and up your income. Remedial actions whatever happens will take months to implement I might hazard a quess that sums in the bank are already set aside or spoken for.
