Alitalia (Merged)
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An update.
Some of the nine unions representing Alitalia staff have signed a draft deal with CAI, a consortium prepared to invest in a new Italian airline, it was announced early Monday.
The accord, accepted by four unions but with the notable exception of pilots and cabin staff, lays down the number of personnel employed by the new Alitalia as 12,500 including 1,500 pilots, 3,300 cabin staff and 7,650 technicians, workers and managerial staff, Ansa news agency said.
CAI had previously offered to employ only 11,500 people.
Some of the nine unions representing Alitalia staff have signed a draft deal with CAI, a consortium prepared to invest in a new Italian airline, it was announced early Monday.
The accord, accepted by four unions but with the notable exception of pilots and cabin staff, lays down the number of personnel employed by the new Alitalia as 12,500 including 1,500 pilots, 3,300 cabin staff and 7,650 technicians, workers and managerial staff, Ansa news agency said.
CAI had previously offered to employ only 11,500 people.
short flights long nights
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And in another report it is stated that Flight Attendents have rejected the above "out of hand". As I said above, it is going to be an interesting day.
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If I see young pilots fresh from flying school actually PAYING some airlines for the privilege of being copilot on an airliner, this means that there is an excess supply of, at least young, pilots (experienced captains might be a differerent matter).
Concerning F/As, I think the situation is even worse, with the reduction of traing requirements to a bare minimum and a ready supply of young women willing to work under lousy conditions in this "glamourous" profession.
IMO, the only ones who realistically have a chance to find new employment fast (though with cutbacks and most likely with being forced to move) are those engineers, who have proven that they do good work (not the lazy ones), due to the current European shortage of licenced aircraft maintenance staff.
Concerning F/As, I think the situation is even worse, with the reduction of traing requirements to a bare minimum and a ready supply of young women willing to work under lousy conditions in this "glamourous" profession.
IMO, the only ones who realistically have a chance to find new employment fast (though with cutbacks and most likely with being forced to move) are those engineers, who have proven that they do good work (not the lazy ones), due to the current European shortage of licenced aircraft maintenance staff.
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Fine knowledge of European employment law you're displaying there.
Last edited by philipat; 15th Sep 2008 at 11:28. Reason: Typo
Today will indeed be interesting. Pilots and flight attendants will meet with the italian labour minister at 1800CET. The minister has said on national tv, however, that the offer on the table cannot be changed anymore and that the discussion will have the form of 'take it or leave it'. The fact that another four unions have basically accepted the deal will mean that there is a huge amount of pressure on them. If they say no they will undoubtedly get the blame for the failure of the rescue plan, wich would be only partially true.
All unions in AZ have shot themselves in the foot by not going along with the AF offer and believing the demagogue retoric of their 'great leader' Silvio Berlusconi. They have helped him into power and now risk being stabbed in the back by the same guy...
The fuel supplier for AZ in Italy, ENI, is not going to be patient for much longer and the italian aviation authorities have threatened to suspend AZ's AOC if it cannot guarantee adequate funding for fuel payments.
Let's see what happens... Good luck guys.
All unions in AZ have shot themselves in the foot by not going along with the AF offer and believing the demagogue retoric of their 'great leader' Silvio Berlusconi. They have helped him into power and now risk being stabbed in the back by the same guy...
The fuel supplier for AZ in Italy, ENI, is not going to be patient for much longer and the italian aviation authorities have threatened to suspend AZ's AOC if it cannot guarantee adequate funding for fuel payments.
Let's see what happens... Good luck guys.
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Yes
So I revert back to my earlier post - and that is, let the airline go under, get rid of everyone, and make them reapply for their jobs. This definately does happen, it happened in my old job here in the UK.
This sums up the situation pretty nicely: Alitalia reaches deal with unions - International Herald Tribune
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It alredy is carnage! A few weeks of utter carnage, followed by a return to a streamlined, profitable business will follow. Swiss, Sabena, XL and many others have fallen - but we got over it. Just as we would if AZ went bust. Pigs will be flying by then, so at least they can carry some of the misplaced pax.
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Oh the simplicity of it all! Sadly for you chaps the real world doesn't work that way. You can't close the airline down, re-open it with fewer of the old staff in a few weeks and suddenly be profitable. The best of the old staff will already have gone somewhere else. Others will decide they don't want to rejoin the new company. What you'll be left with is a few loyalists and the unemployable, and thats no way to start up an airline. If Alitalia closes down I'd bet on it going the way of Sabena rather than Swissair.
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So Who Cares?
Oh the simplicity of it all! Sadly for you chaps the real world doesn't work that way. You can't close the airline down, re-open it with fewer of the old staff in a few weeks and suddenly be profitable. The best of the old staff will already have gone somewhere else. Others will decide they don't want to rejoin the new company. What you'll be left with is a few loyalists and the unemployable, and thats no way to start up an airline. If Alitalia closes down I'd bet on it going the way of Sabena rather than Swissair
My point entirely. See above thread. Just let it go. Alitalia is a waste of space, a deceased parrot. If it wasn't nailed to the perch by taxpayers euros it would already be pushing up the daisies.
Guys, you seem to forget that closing the company down will cost maybe even more money than keeping it alive. The rescue plan is financed with private funding (except for outstanding debts which will be covered by taxpayer money). If Alitalia folds, it's former employees will cost the italian government enormous amounts of money in unemployment benefits claims. Apart from national pride and the promise of Mr. Berlusconi to save the company this is the main reason why ministers are still talking to the various unions. They are trying to save their own *sses!
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But the government is already paying an awful lot of money.
Let the duds go, stop skewing the commercial market with illegal government subsidies. The EU isn't supposed to be a Socialist Eutopia these days. Someone please tell that crook Berlusconi!
Politicians don't care about the long term. Their idea of 'long term' is the next election which is a maximum of 4 years, and far less than that in Italy... If they can spin things towards having their electorate think that they 'saved' Alitalia it will score them big brownie points. As it is 56% of the public think the present government is to blame, see this poll in a major italian newspaper: Testata di repubblica - Repubblica
They will do what is necessary to save Alitalia in the short term. If the pilots and cabin crew reject the new contract, the politicians have the perfect scapegoat. If the rescue plan is accepted by everybody and the 'new' Alitalia fails in a year or so they can say that they did everything in their power to save Alitalia. The pilots and cabin crew unions are partly to blame for the present situation but I would definitely not want to be in their position right now...
They will do what is necessary to save Alitalia in the short term. If the pilots and cabin crew reject the new contract, the politicians have the perfect scapegoat. If the rescue plan is accepted by everybody and the 'new' Alitalia fails in a year or so they can say that they did everything in their power to save Alitalia. The pilots and cabin crew unions are partly to blame for the present situation but I would definitely not want to be in their position right now...
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Situation at BLQ this morning:
NO AZ flights to anywhere, no AZ a/c on the aprons. Italian public are aware, a TV channel had a crew at the airport to film some of the scenes (not that there was much to see). So as far as the public are concerned, it is over.
Meridiana on the other hand is doing roaring business (for obvious reasons). Looks like they picked up some of the slack from AZ flights being cancelled.
The only politician who cares about AZ is Berlusconi. He was re-elected (for the N-th time) on the promise that he would rescue the airline, and he will not let it fail.
S.
NO AZ flights to anywhere, no AZ a/c on the aprons. Italian public are aware, a TV channel had a crew at the airport to film some of the scenes (not that there was much to see). So as far as the public are concerned, it is over.
Meridiana on the other hand is doing roaring business (for obvious reasons). Looks like they picked up some of the slack from AZ flights being cancelled.
The only politician who cares about AZ is Berlusconi. He was re-elected (for the N-th time) on the promise that he would rescue the airline, and he will not let it fail.
S.
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Let AZ got for christs sake. Airline after airline has looked into buying this airline, probably even put a bid in, but the Goverment have turned them down. They are in too much debt to be ev en surviving and if the EU dosnt do something this could possibly be the longest clinger on airline that i have seen.
AZ i read loose £780,000 a day (Sunday times). About time they let go of there 'national' airline and made way for a new one. LH are ready to go.
AZ i read loose £780,000 a day (Sunday times). About time they let go of there 'national' airline and made way for a new one. LH are ready to go.
Last edited by Jet22; 15th Sep 2008 at 18:12. Reason: Erm, no company cant lose 8 Million a Day
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Some new facts.
Talks to get all Alitalia's unions on board for a job-cutting rescue by Italian investors will continue tomorrow as pilots and crew have not signed up to an initial deal agreed by other unions to avoid bankruptcy.
Raffaele Bonanni, head of CISL (one of the four unions which signed up to the framework deal), said: "We have arrived at a point where something has to be accomplished, otherwise everything will break. If it happened, one of the richest markets in the world of aviation would be dispelled and, above all, we would lose 20,000 jobs." An other union, FILT-CGIL said the conditions were not in place for a full-blown agreement.
Five other labour groups, representing pilots and cabin crew, oppose the rescue plan altogether, fearing huge job and salary cuts.
The government called talks with those groups for Monday evening and Tuesday, hoping to break the deadlock.
Speaking on a television show tonight, Berlusconi stressed the alternative to the rescue proposal was bankruptcy. He said Lufthansa (!) would be the best international partner for a revived Alitalia.
Hundreds of angry employees gathered near Berlusconi's office intonating slogans like "Buffoons, we are coming". The son of one of the pilots carried a banner saying "A little money for my dad, a little bread for us".
Talks to get all Alitalia's unions on board for a job-cutting rescue by Italian investors will continue tomorrow as pilots and crew have not signed up to an initial deal agreed by other unions to avoid bankruptcy.
Raffaele Bonanni, head of CISL (one of the four unions which signed up to the framework deal), said: "We have arrived at a point where something has to be accomplished, otherwise everything will break. If it happened, one of the richest markets in the world of aviation would be dispelled and, above all, we would lose 20,000 jobs." An other union, FILT-CGIL said the conditions were not in place for a full-blown agreement.
Five other labour groups, representing pilots and cabin crew, oppose the rescue plan altogether, fearing huge job and salary cuts.
The government called talks with those groups for Monday evening and Tuesday, hoping to break the deadlock.
Speaking on a television show tonight, Berlusconi stressed the alternative to the rescue proposal was bankruptcy. He said Lufthansa (!) would be the best international partner for a revived Alitalia.
Hundreds of angry employees gathered near Berlusconi's office intonating slogans like "Buffoons, we are coming". The son of one of the pilots carried a banner saying "A little money for my dad, a little bread for us".