Alitalia (Merged)
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Now we have news that the last ditch talks between Management and Unions in Alitalia have broken down.
There are currently no plans to resume talks.
The Gov't IAA have given the company until next weekend to reach a decision.
If they go down, there will be a large hole in European Aviation.
There are currently no plans to resume talks.
The Gov't IAA have given the company until next weekend to reach a decision.
If they go down, there will be a large hole in European Aviation.
I will not miss Alitalia at all!
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Alitalia moved closer to bankruptcy when Roberto Colaninno's investor group abandoned negotiations after unions refused to accept its rescue plan. The investors walked out of talks with unions today over the airline's rescue plan.
"After seven days of meetings, there aren't conditions to continue negotiations,'' Colaninno's Compagnia Aerea Italiana said in an e-mailed statement. The unions "don't seem to realize what a dramatic situation Alitalia is in,'' CAI said, adding that it hasn't formally withdrawn its offer. CAI's plan proposed 3,250 job cuts and the sale of unprofitable assets including the airline's cargo and maintenance businesses. The government had given unions a deadline of yesterday to reach an agreement.
Labor Minister Maurizio Sacconi, who had led the round of talks with a Thursday deadline, told reporters that the investors had "pulled out of the negotiations" as there was no "shared view."
"The situation is worrisome," he said, although he expressed hope that it could still change.
"This has become the latest act in the Alitalia soap opera and one has to hope that it's just some arm wrestling between the two sides and that they will get back to negotiations,'' said Patrizio Pazzaglia, a money manager at Bank Insinger de Beaufort NV in Rome. "That would be the best scenario from a market perspective.''
"The situation is worrisome and getting worse,'' Labor Minister Maurizio Sacconi said in Rome today. "Alitalia won't be able to operate much longer if there aren't new developments.''
Alitalia has nine main unions that failed to forge a common position on the plan, prompting separate negotiations with the different labor groups. The sticking point is proposed salary reductions for the workers who would remain in the reorganized company rather than the number of jobs cuts, union officials said.
"We know that there will be job cuts and workers will be asked to do more, but we don't see any reason why we should accept a cut in salary as well.'' said Luigi Angeletti, national secretary of the UIL union.
Gathered from the latest newsfeeds.
Edit: Oops, two members from Finland are, as it seems, most interested in Alitalia?
Just a pure coincidence, I'm sure...
"After seven days of meetings, there aren't conditions to continue negotiations,'' Colaninno's Compagnia Aerea Italiana said in an e-mailed statement. The unions "don't seem to realize what a dramatic situation Alitalia is in,'' CAI said, adding that it hasn't formally withdrawn its offer. CAI's plan proposed 3,250 job cuts and the sale of unprofitable assets including the airline's cargo and maintenance businesses. The government had given unions a deadline of yesterday to reach an agreement.
Labor Minister Maurizio Sacconi, who had led the round of talks with a Thursday deadline, told reporters that the investors had "pulled out of the negotiations" as there was no "shared view."
"The situation is worrisome," he said, although he expressed hope that it could still change.
"This has become the latest act in the Alitalia soap opera and one has to hope that it's just some arm wrestling between the two sides and that they will get back to negotiations,'' said Patrizio Pazzaglia, a money manager at Bank Insinger de Beaufort NV in Rome. "That would be the best scenario from a market perspective.''
"The situation is worrisome and getting worse,'' Labor Minister Maurizio Sacconi said in Rome today. "Alitalia won't be able to operate much longer if there aren't new developments.''
Alitalia has nine main unions that failed to forge a common position on the plan, prompting separate negotiations with the different labor groups. The sticking point is proposed salary reductions for the workers who would remain in the reorganized company rather than the number of jobs cuts, union officials said.
"We know that there will be job cuts and workers will be asked to do more, but we don't see any reason why we should accept a cut in salary as well.'' said Luigi Angeletti, national secretary of the UIL union.
Gathered from the latest newsfeeds.
Edit: Oops, two members from Finland are, as it seems, most interested in Alitalia?
Just a pure coincidence, I'm sure...
Join Date: Jul 2004
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Let's not forget around 15% of AZ employees have a special interest in AZ going bust, mostly through massive compensations should this terrible event occur. Are those very interested people taking part in the discussions ?
Anyhow, both AF and LH have already alternative plans ready. These plans probably won't include the hiring of AZ employees, or so few...
I wouldn't be surprised all this will turn into a messy fight between opposing categories of staff at AZ very soon.
Anyhow, both AF and LH have already alternative plans ready. These plans probably won't include the hiring of AZ employees, or so few...
I wouldn't be surprised all this will turn into a messy fight between opposing categories of staff at AZ very soon.
. Many other people out there who are willing to work.
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Quote
If the employees aren't willing to make concessions to keep their jobs, good riddence
Unquote
Most pax using Alitalia might not miss most of the employees deployed as CC or check-in staff, anyway.
If the employees aren't willing to make concessions to keep their jobs, good riddence
Unquote
Most pax using Alitalia might not miss most of the employees deployed as CC or check-in staff, anyway.
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DCS99 at this point another bailout by the state is unlikely, because "the regional party of the north", part of gov. coalition is opposing strongly to what is seen as a favor to "lazy romans", and then it would be too much against what the italian PM has promised at election time.
At this point anything can happen but whatever it will be, will favour the investement groups and the banks that have total support by said PM.
Again about him, still yesterday he was announcing to have "mantained the promise of saving alitalia", to which he will add that the grounding is wanted by unions and their communist supporters.
At this point anything can happen but whatever it will be, will favour the investement groups and the banks that have total support by said PM.
Again about him, still yesterday he was announcing to have "mantained the promise of saving alitalia", to which he will add that the grounding is wanted by unions and their communist supporters.
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As a northern Euorpean I have no idea about the internal dynamics in Italy (can’t wrap my mind around the unions attitude), but the stakes being played for are extremely high. In previous posts I have made clear what my opinion is. Here is an interesting article on Airwise as it relates to the true costs and structure of the proposed deal.
September 12, 2008
Italy's rescue of Alitalia followed a familiar "Italian solution" script supported by governments in the country, where domestic investors step in to bail out a company considered strategic to thwart foreign control.
But critics and the opposition say the patriotic rescue called for by Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi ultimately will be financed by Italians, whose taxpayer funds were also used to lend EUR300 million euros to the cash-strapped airline in April.
The Economist magazine estimated that at the end of the rescue, about EUR5 billion of public money will have been pumped into saving Alitalia over the years, or about EUR125 by each Italian taxpayer.
Here's how the Italian solution could end up costing the state and taxpayers:
HIGHER AIRFARES
Consumer groups and competitors complain that the government's suspension of antitrust laws to permit Alitalia to merge with domestic rival Air One will give it monopoly control over the lucrative Milan-Rome route and increase fares.
Noting that Alitalia and Air One together control 67 percent of traffic at Milan's Linate Airport and 58 percent at Rome's Fiumicino Airport, low-cost rival carrier easyJet was one of several critics to warn that this could restrict choice and lead to "extremely high" fares.
GOLDEN PARACHUTES FOR BAGGAGE HANDLERS?
Alitalia's employees have long enjoyed generous benefits and pay and fended off successive restructuring efforts thanks to the political muscle of their unions, who felled a sale of the airline to Air France-KLM this year.
Eager to avoid a fresh union backlash, the government has promised welfare benefits for seven years and the option of jobs at other public or private firms for the more than 3,000 employees who will be
laid off.
One newspaper estimated the welfare benefits alone for fired employees will cost the state EUR1 billion.
BAILING OUT SMALL INVESTORS
The government also plans to refund small savers who had invested in Alitalia by turning to dormant public funds available to it, a move expected to cost EUR200 million - EUR300 million according to La Repubblica newspaper.
A group representing investors had threatened lawsuits if they were not compensated.
ALITALIA'S "BAD COMPANY"
Under the "Phoenix" plan, Alitalia's profitable parts will be sold off to Italian investors while its troubled parts and debt of more than EUR1 billion will likely be liquidated, with the state likely to absorb the losses.
End.
Ps. Wow 5 billion euros! Must make one proud to be Italian.
As a frame of reference. Current Market Capitalization of British Airways is 3.8 billion euros, at current exchange rates. You could buy all outstanding shares in the worlds largest carrier (by turnover) Air France/KLM for that amount of money and still have 7 million euros left over.
September 12, 2008
Italy's rescue of Alitalia followed a familiar "Italian solution" script supported by governments in the country, where domestic investors step in to bail out a company considered strategic to thwart foreign control.
But critics and the opposition say the patriotic rescue called for by Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi ultimately will be financed by Italians, whose taxpayer funds were also used to lend EUR300 million euros to the cash-strapped airline in April.
The Economist magazine estimated that at the end of the rescue, about EUR5 billion of public money will have been pumped into saving Alitalia over the years, or about EUR125 by each Italian taxpayer.
Here's how the Italian solution could end up costing the state and taxpayers:
HIGHER AIRFARES
Consumer groups and competitors complain that the government's suspension of antitrust laws to permit Alitalia to merge with domestic rival Air One will give it monopoly control over the lucrative Milan-Rome route and increase fares.
Noting that Alitalia and Air One together control 67 percent of traffic at Milan's Linate Airport and 58 percent at Rome's Fiumicino Airport, low-cost rival carrier easyJet was one of several critics to warn that this could restrict choice and lead to "extremely high" fares.
GOLDEN PARACHUTES FOR BAGGAGE HANDLERS?
Alitalia's employees have long enjoyed generous benefits and pay and fended off successive restructuring efforts thanks to the political muscle of their unions, who felled a sale of the airline to Air France-KLM this year.
Eager to avoid a fresh union backlash, the government has promised welfare benefits for seven years and the option of jobs at other public or private firms for the more than 3,000 employees who will be
laid off.
One newspaper estimated the welfare benefits alone for fired employees will cost the state EUR1 billion.
BAILING OUT SMALL INVESTORS
The government also plans to refund small savers who had invested in Alitalia by turning to dormant public funds available to it, a move expected to cost EUR200 million - EUR300 million according to La Repubblica newspaper.
A group representing investors had threatened lawsuits if they were not compensated.
ALITALIA'S "BAD COMPANY"
Under the "Phoenix" plan, Alitalia's profitable parts will be sold off to Italian investors while its troubled parts and debt of more than EUR1 billion will likely be liquidated, with the state likely to absorb the losses.
End.
Ps. Wow 5 billion euros! Must make one proud to be Italian.
As a frame of reference. Current Market Capitalization of British Airways is 3.8 billion euros, at current exchange rates. You could buy all outstanding shares in the worlds largest carrier (by turnover) Air France/KLM for that amount of money and still have 7 million euros left over.
Last edited by Otterman; 13th Sep 2008 at 09:36.
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When the negotiations fell, what you can do? You can pray, of course, or... you can start printing posters. These are just published by Piero Marrazzo, the President of Lazio Region.
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cannot confirm any flights after tomorrow due to shortage of fuel.
From the BBC;
Alitalia 'running out of fuel'
Breaking News
Italy's troubled national airline, Alitalia, cannot guarantee flights beyond Sunday because of a lack of funds to buy fuel, a top official says.
"Until the end of tomorrow, flights are guaranteed. From Monday, they are not," Augusto Fantozzi, Alitalia's bankruptcy administrator, told unions.
Mr Fantozzi was speaking a day after talks on a rescue plan for the ailing airline broke down.
Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi blamed "political" motives for the failure.
PP
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A matter of time probably.
But for how many decades did they already survive what should have been the final reality check.
A cat ( supposedly ) has nine lives, think Alitalia must be on about number 12.
This will not be pretty to watch, I just hope the poor folk at the coal face being used as pawns between the Govt ,the Unions, and God knows who else. . . can salvage as many jobs as possible for themselves.
The company is full of dead wood and sons and cousins of same, but many of the normal folk employed there did not enjoy the "dolce vita", as I found out one day discussing our respective monthly planning with an AZ MD80 crew.
Hope it works out OK for you guys, try and lose some/all of the freeloaders in the transition to Ally-Light.
But for how many decades did they already survive what should have been the final reality check.
A cat ( supposedly ) has nine lives, think Alitalia must be on about number 12.
This will not be pretty to watch, I just hope the poor folk at the coal face being used as pawns between the Govt ,the Unions, and God knows who else. . . can salvage as many jobs as possible for themselves.
The company is full of dead wood and sons and cousins of same, but many of the normal folk employed there did not enjoy the "dolce vita", as I found out one day discussing our respective monthly planning with an AZ MD80 crew.
Hope it works out OK for you guys, try and lose some/all of the freeloaders in the transition to Ally-Light.
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AZ
Beat me to it but here is the link for what it is worth.
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Alitalia 'running out of fuel'
Pete
BBC NEWS | World | Europe | Alitalia 'running out of fuel'
Pete
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Sad day for the 'Spaghetti Express', agree my dealings with them were 'Manager this, Manager that, Manager when, Manager what the ****' It took 5 days (and 5 very nice lunches I may add) to get one lack lustre decision, and they were paying me!
Good luck to all the good Flt Crew and Flt Ops staff I knew.
Good luck to all the good Flt Crew and Flt Ops staff I knew.