Alitalia (Merged)
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: southwest
Age: 78
Posts: 287
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
eu01
Apart from employees, who cares? AZA is history. It can't be re-born or revived. The only question is will the death be short or long.
Lufthansa management is too smart to get mixed up with a bunch of baboons like Alitalia.
Lufthansa management is too smart to get mixed up with a bunch of baboons like Alitalia.
Berlusconi is involved with this one... it has to stink. The only winners will be his Buddys.
In this day and age it says a lot that some parts of Europe can show Africa how it should be done...
In this day and age it says a lot that some parts of Europe can show Africa how it should be done...
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Earth (just)
Posts: 722
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"A little money for my dad, a little bread for us".
I got another question. Is there an employer out there who would seriously consider employing an AZ pilot after this lot?
short flights long nights
Thread Starter
What is all the fuss about?
Sounds like a great deal, payed for 7 years for doing nothing....
Under the draft agreement, the 3,200 workers who lose their jobs will receive 80% of their salary for up to seven years. Thousands of others will be found jobs in other companies.
A "special fund for employee income support" is to be set up, which "will be augmented by up to two euros a ticket", according to the draft agreement.
Consortium members are to meet on Thursday to take a final decision on whether to go ahead with their investment, and it seems possible the talks could drag on until then. Were they to fail, more than 100,000 airline passengers would be stranded or left with worthless tickets. An estimated 1 million have reservations that would need to be rebooked.
The draft pact between the main unions and investors was confined to the consortium's industrial plan. The right-wing government's employment minister, Maurizio Sacconi, warned a deal had yet to be struck on terms and conditions for the new Alitalia, but the leader of the moderate CISL trade union federation said agreement on the industrial plan was the "basis for everything else".
Backstory
Alitalia has long been the basket case of the European civil aviation industry, kept alive by generous, subsidies. It last made a profit in 1999. Since then, it has absorbed an estimated €3bn (Ł2.4bn) of public money, not counting its €1.2bn debts and a special loan of €300m provided this year at the request of Silvio Berlusconi, after he won Italy's general election. The previous, government, had found a buyer in Air France-KLM. But the unions scotched the deal after Berlusconi vowed to preserve its "Italian-ness".
.
Under the draft agreement, the 3,200 workers who lose their jobs will receive 80% of their salary for up to seven years. Thousands of others will be found jobs in other companies.
A "special fund for employee income support" is to be set up, which "will be augmented by up to two euros a ticket", according to the draft agreement.
Consortium members are to meet on Thursday to take a final decision on whether to go ahead with their investment, and it seems possible the talks could drag on until then. Were they to fail, more than 100,000 airline passengers would be stranded or left with worthless tickets. An estimated 1 million have reservations that would need to be rebooked.
The draft pact between the main unions and investors was confined to the consortium's industrial plan. The right-wing government's employment minister, Maurizio Sacconi, warned a deal had yet to be struck on terms and conditions for the new Alitalia, but the leader of the moderate CISL trade union federation said agreement on the industrial plan was the "basis for everything else".
Backstory
Alitalia has long been the basket case of the European civil aviation industry, kept alive by generous, subsidies. It last made a profit in 1999. Since then, it has absorbed an estimated €3bn (Ł2.4bn) of public money, not counting its €1.2bn debts and a special loan of €300m provided this year at the request of Silvio Berlusconi, after he won Italy's general election. The previous, government, had found a buyer in Air France-KLM. But the unions scotched the deal after Berlusconi vowed to preserve its "Italian-ness".
.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Makes no sense
With the changes now proposed, I don't see how AZ can operate at a profit, even with the transfer of subsidies to other branches of Government and the travelling public.
This is like pulling teeth. Just let it go already!
The world doesn't need AZ. With the exception probably of a few flights over the pond out of Milan, and possibly Rome, everything else could be hubbed somewhere else and there would be more open competition on domestic routes, allowing a Ryanair Italian equivalent (Non-unionised) to startup. All both directly, and indirectly, to the benefit of the Italian taxpayer/traveller.
Incidentally, why is the Milan/Rome route an AZ monopoly (According to earlier posts)? It was my understanding that EU regulations allow ANY airline domiciled in the EU to operate flights between any EU cities? LH, for instance, operates some UK domestic flights (Some as code shares).
This is like pulling teeth. Just let it go already!
The world doesn't need AZ. With the exception probably of a few flights over the pond out of Milan, and possibly Rome, everything else could be hubbed somewhere else and there would be more open competition on domestic routes, allowing a Ryanair Italian equivalent (Non-unionised) to startup. All both directly, and indirectly, to the benefit of the Italian taxpayer/traveller.
Incidentally, why is the Milan/Rome route an AZ monopoly (According to earlier posts)? It was my understanding that EU regulations allow ANY airline domiciled in the EU to operate flights between any EU cities? LH, for instance, operates some UK domestic flights (Some as code shares).
Last edited by philipat; 16th Sep 2008 at 03:30. Reason: Typo
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is frankly incredible that a country in western Europe, not recently run as a communist regime, still owns its own airline. What else does the Italian government think worth owning? Chains of pizzerias? Underwear manufacturers? Alitalia, which nobody wants to fly on, is 49 per cent owned by the state. Did nobody start to make some kind of connection before very recently?
And this is the bigger question. Why on earth did anyone think of connecting national pride to some airline company or other in the first place? If British Airways suddenly went bankrupt, there would be some other airline company to take its place. And that's the way it should be. Sell it off; close it down; or face the consequences. We're not living in 1977 any more.
And this is the bigger question. Why on earth did anyone think of connecting national pride to some airline company or other in the first place? If British Airways suddenly went bankrupt, there would be some other airline company to take its place. And that's the way it should be. Sell it off; close it down; or face the consequences. We're not living in 1977 any more.
short flights long nights
Thread Starter
And can anyone explain why the pilots in Alitalia have two seperate unions..surely one is enough!!???
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: SCOTLAND
Posts: 109
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They are in talks
Ah but in terms of the company as a whole, there are 9, 2 pilot unions - are these unions taking part in the discussions?
Yes Both the unions are in talks,getting nowhere,management getting nowhere.
You would think they could agree and remain an airline.
Bad show another one will go very very soon.
Yes Both the unions are in talks,getting nowhere,management getting nowhere.
You would think they could agree and remain an airline.
Bad show another one will go very very soon.
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 644
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"A little more money for my dad and little more bread for me" ... they really must think people are so naive or perhaps that really is their view of the outside world. Maybe they've been able to drag this whole sorry saga of Alitalia on for so long simply because they believe the Italian and Europe public is so foolish. If this little boy's father is so poor perhaps he should change professions because in Europe today that's quite an offensive slogan to parade around especially when there are genuine people facing hard times at present. What the Alitalia crews are looking for is Armani style luxury in their working conditions, they have become far too accustomed to their lofty Alitalia ideals alot of which are unfounded and can no longer be supported. Yet the union durmmer boy leads them to make further specious comments proclaiming how bad done by they are. They should check out workers in other industries or even aviation crews in other Europe states, shame on them. Now they are going to get 7 years (wow, I'm breathless) at 80% as a redundancy payout, unjustified they aren't worth it.
Politics and unions, dear oh dear that combination gives satan (I refuse to use a capital 'S') a bad name! Would we be allowed to break the rules and start handing out huge amounts of tax payers cash for Lehman Brothers? If BA ever got even a sniff of the tax payers pot at this scale there would have been all manner of accusations from Italy dito from France.
This is evidently very clear why Europe doesn't work and won't do so for some time to come. It's hugely unfair, corrupt and unworkable. I just hope and pray that new Alitalia-lite will be more successful but without changing attitudes I fear it has merely reset the clock which will in time once again wind down to the point we find ourselves at today. I have never understood why Britain is so keen on Europe geographic proximity doesn't mean a sharing of minds or hearts, just look at China/Japan, India/Pakistan, Mexico/USA.
Shame on the Alitalia unions and politicians they have successfully demonstrated they are one and the same thing, crooks.
Politics and unions, dear oh dear that combination gives satan (I refuse to use a capital 'S') a bad name! Would we be allowed to break the rules and start handing out huge amounts of tax payers cash for Lehman Brothers? If BA ever got even a sniff of the tax payers pot at this scale there would have been all manner of accusations from Italy dito from France.
This is evidently very clear why Europe doesn't work and won't do so for some time to come. It's hugely unfair, corrupt and unworkable. I just hope and pray that new Alitalia-lite will be more successful but without changing attitudes I fear it has merely reset the clock which will in time once again wind down to the point we find ourselves at today. I have never understood why Britain is so keen on Europe geographic proximity doesn't mean a sharing of minds or hearts, just look at China/Japan, India/Pakistan, Mexico/USA.
Shame on the Alitalia unions and politicians they have successfully demonstrated they are one and the same thing, crooks.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Alabama
Age: 58
Posts: 366
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ah but in terms of the company as a whole, there are 9, 2 pilot unions - are these unions taking part in the discussions?
Is not the first time that in Italy different Unions representing the same category does not agree with the management. The management often have to struck different deals with all the Unions.
Seems that the Unions are not even able to sit around a table to find a common stand...
Last edited by FrequentSLF; 16th Sep 2008 at 11:45.
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Finland
Posts: 590
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"Esclusivo - Il piano Air One in caso di fallimento Alitalia"
"The competitors are ready to take care of the most important domesic routes if Alitalia collapses" - informs La Gazzetta del Mezzogiorno. According to them, if Alitalia is grounded, Air One and others are ready to intervene. Air One has prepared an extraordinary plan of upgrading its flights, which will try to capture some traffic deserted by the airline. Air One would intervene immediately with additional flights to and from Rome and Milan Linate. To cope with the situation, the company has already made agreements with some charter operators from which it's ready to wet lease up to five aircraft with crews to reinforce the network of the company.
Concerning Linate, the plan provides 14 daily frequencies more on Linate-Fiumicino route, 3 on the Linate-Naples, 2 on the Linate-Catania and Linate to Bari, as well as the Linate-Palermo and Linate-Lamezia routes.
At Fiumicino, the strengthening would cover all the routes now operated by Alitalia with the exclusion of Brindisi, Trieste and links on Sardinia.
All companies operating in Italy are making similar plans.
According to some rumours, in case of Alitalia collapsing even Ryanair would be ready to add some domestic flights from the Italian airports where it already operates, while the priority would be Rome and Milan (Bergamo?).
Major international companies (Air France, Lufthansa and British Airways) should instead aim to strengthen links from Malpensa and Rome to their European hubs - writes "La Gazzetta".
"The competitors are ready to take care of the most important domesic routes if Alitalia collapses" - informs La Gazzetta del Mezzogiorno. According to them, if Alitalia is grounded, Air One and others are ready to intervene. Air One has prepared an extraordinary plan of upgrading its flights, which will try to capture some traffic deserted by the airline. Air One would intervene immediately with additional flights to and from Rome and Milan Linate. To cope with the situation, the company has already made agreements with some charter operators from which it's ready to wet lease up to five aircraft with crews to reinforce the network of the company.
Concerning Linate, the plan provides 14 daily frequencies more on Linate-Fiumicino route, 3 on the Linate-Naples, 2 on the Linate-Catania and Linate to Bari, as well as the Linate-Palermo and Linate-Lamezia routes.
At Fiumicino, the strengthening would cover all the routes now operated by Alitalia with the exclusion of Brindisi, Trieste and links on Sardinia.
All companies operating in Italy are making similar plans.
According to some rumours, in case of Alitalia collapsing even Ryanair would be ready to add some domestic flights from the Italian airports where it already operates, while the priority would be Rome and Milan (Bergamo?).
Major international companies (Air France, Lufthansa and British Airways) should instead aim to strengthen links from Malpensa and Rome to their European hubs - writes "La Gazzetta".
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Europe
Posts: 970
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Something new. Italian industry minister, Claudio Scajola, extended today the bankruptcy protection to two other AZ units, Alitalia Express and Volare.
Volare? Wow! It must be world's first low-cost carrier to enjoy a bankruptcy protection.
Meanwhile, Luigi Angeletti, national secretary for the UIL union, said: "There is a good chance to succeed with an agreement, but getting all nine unions to agree is a miracle."
The unions' meeting Tuesday was canceled for "technical reasons" and might be rescheduled for Wednesday.
Volare? Wow! It must be world's first low-cost carrier to enjoy a bankruptcy protection.
Meanwhile, Luigi Angeletti, national secretary for the UIL union, said: "There is a good chance to succeed with an agreement, but getting all nine unions to agree is a miracle."
The unions' meeting Tuesday was canceled for "technical reasons" and might be rescheduled for Wednesday.
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Under a Log
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Alitalia begins strike and cancels flights
Alitalia begins strike and cancels flights - News news
Alitalia customers at Sofia Airport will be unpleasantly surprised to find out that the company’s flights to Rome on September 17 had been cancelled.
The company would cancel a total of 40 flights from and to Amsterdam, Belgrade, Bucharest, Kiev, Lisbon, Madrid, Milan, Nice, Paris, Sofia and Verona, which were to be serviced between 12am and 4pm Central European Summer Time, Alitalia said in a statement on its website late on the evening of September 16. The flights were cancelled because of a strike, the statements said, without giving further details.
Alitalia customers at Sofia Airport will be unpleasantly surprised to find out that the company’s flights to Rome on September 17 had been cancelled.
The company would cancel a total of 40 flights from and to Amsterdam, Belgrade, Bucharest, Kiev, Lisbon, Madrid, Milan, Nice, Paris, Sofia and Verona, which were to be serviced between 12am and 4pm Central European Summer Time, Alitalia said in a statement on its website late on the evening of September 16. The flights were cancelled because of a strike, the statements said, without giving further details.
Paxing All Over The World
A strike? How quaint. As I recall, SABENA staff were on strike at the same time the crumbled pile of the company went into bankruptcy. Still, at least it looks like something will actually happen this time.
That said ... the report from oppure is not encouraging as it sounds like the mgmt want to keep their noses firmly in the trough. Which is fine if the customers are getting a great service.
That said ... the report from oppure is not encouraging as it sounds like the mgmt want to keep their noses firmly in the trough. Which is fine if the customers are getting a great service.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Bali, Indonesia
Posts: 264
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Banana Republics
It's so cynical the way that politicians in banana republics always use "Nationalism" as a cover-up for corruption.
In this case, bad airline gets loaded onto the state, good airline gets sold to Uncle Sylvio and his mates.
So much for Nationalism?
In this case, bad airline gets loaded onto the state, good airline gets sold to Uncle Sylvio and his mates.
So much for Nationalism?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: EU
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Kind of cute this nationalism, but it is from a bygone era. The EU exists, and what is happening in this spaghetti western effects the industry outside the mere national boundary. If the EU just stands back and lets a deal like this go through it will further undermine it reason for being.