CARDIFF
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Wherever my current employers wish to send me !!
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Why the hell would we want to pull out of a profitable base?
I just wish that some posters would actually think before hitting the send button !
I just wish that some posters would actually think before hitting the send button !
Mach 3
Join Date: Aug 1998
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Well if WW as a whole didn't make any money and CWL is profitable, then some WW bases obviously aren't...
Which might they be?
Fact is, no-one (or rather, very few) knows if it is or isn't profitable...
Which might they be?
Fact is, no-one (or rather, very few) knows if it is or isn't profitable...
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Cardiff
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Rumours are rumours and you either take notice of them or take them with a pinch of salt. WW have been at CWL for a few years now so I'm sure which routes work and which don't. Seeing that they're axing GDN, it's possible that whoever at Aviance mentioned it may have misunderstood that it was this route WW were axing and not the whole jolly lot.
I really think that if they weren't interested in CWL and they were "flogging a dead horse" then they wouldn't have added the BCN flight, due to start later this month imo.
It will be interesting to see what they do to replace the GDN flights. Extra flights to the Costas/FAO/PMI?
I really think that if they weren't interested in CWL and they were "flogging a dead horse" then they wouldn't have added the BCN flight, due to start later this month imo.
It will be interesting to see what they do to replace the GDN flights. Extra flights to the Costas/FAO/PMI?
Join Date: Feb 2008
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Heineken cup weekend
Are all these charters going back+forth for the weekend or just one plane full and parking up? Will they all have coaches waiting for them or will they have to use the buses, trains, taxis etc as to reach Cardiff?
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
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Whilst Baby is it's own boss it won't pull out of CWL. Where would it go ? There is heavy competition everywhere in the UK and most of europe. Airlines chop and change routes all of the time expecially if they have limited resources. It's simple supply and demand with the rising cost of fuel there has got to be really high demand to make any money. GDN looked like a good bet due to the Polish influx BUT it obviously didn't prove that popular so Baby decided to look elsewhere for demand and from CWL that will be the MED where it always has been ! It wouldn't surprise me if some of the domestic stuff was quietly left to Fly Be who operate the right aircraft for the routes (Q400).
In any case no one really knows whether Baby makes any money or not. No seperate accounts are produced for consumption even within the group. I've learned from previous experience that the bean counters can make any result appear how they want it to appear. A profitable base can be made to look unprofitable if it wants it closed or assets relocated. Happened at a previous company because it suited the parent company's long term aims.
So any speculation that Baby makes heavy losses is just that speculation. That is not the feeling within the group. One thing is for sure SMB plays his cards very close to his chest and where the money comes and goes is only known to him and a few very senior people. Even if the airline makes an operational loss it may make enough money for "the group" (who owns the planes ? mmm...) to keep it going for sometime yet and CWL is a good base even if the routes have to be chopped and changed to keep it profitable. Someone said PRG needs to be reinstated. WHY ? If it made any money it would still be operating, sorry harsh fact of life. As I keep saying it has NOTHING to do with loadfactor YIELD is everything ! No YIELD no route. Even if another airline took it on to make money they would have to do it with much cheaper aircraft and much cheaper fuel, highly unlikely. I know for a fact this route has been looked at by others who have all reached that conclusion.
The whole aviation industry runs on a daily dose of rumour and speculation ! What else would we talk about for a 12 hour duty ! Remember most of it is just that. If you think about the stuff that actually ends up happening it's the stuff there's been little rumour or speculation about. The people that really known just don't put it out there !
In any case no one really knows whether Baby makes any money or not. No seperate accounts are produced for consumption even within the group. I've learned from previous experience that the bean counters can make any result appear how they want it to appear. A profitable base can be made to look unprofitable if it wants it closed or assets relocated. Happened at a previous company because it suited the parent company's long term aims.
So any speculation that Baby makes heavy losses is just that speculation. That is not the feeling within the group. One thing is for sure SMB plays his cards very close to his chest and where the money comes and goes is only known to him and a few very senior people. Even if the airline makes an operational loss it may make enough money for "the group" (who owns the planes ? mmm...) to keep it going for sometime yet and CWL is a good base even if the routes have to be chopped and changed to keep it profitable. Someone said PRG needs to be reinstated. WHY ? If it made any money it would still be operating, sorry harsh fact of life. As I keep saying it has NOTHING to do with loadfactor YIELD is everything ! No YIELD no route. Even if another airline took it on to make money they would have to do it with much cheaper aircraft and much cheaper fuel, highly unlikely. I know for a fact this route has been looked at by others who have all reached that conclusion.
The whole aviation industry runs on a daily dose of rumour and speculation ! What else would we talk about for a 12 hour duty ! Remember most of it is just that. If you think about the stuff that actually ends up happening it's the stuff there's been little rumour or speculation about. The people that really known just don't put it out there !
Join Date: Oct 2007
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Cheeky Visual - It's not all about Yield!
It depends what the business objective is and the Bean Counters in Donington Hall will decide this. Most LCC's have a Volume based model when compared with the likes of Eastern Airways or VLM for example. Those that sit on the middle are generally the airlines with no clear strategy are generally the ones that end up belly up.
Whether an airline or route is or indeed isn't profitable depends on overall revenue whether this is achieved through High LF/Low Yield or High Yield/Low LF. This is not done at a route level, this is sometimes even at a flight number level where demand varies.
It's not as straight forward as it first sounds, there's a science behind it.
It depends what the business objective is and the Bean Counters in Donington Hall will decide this. Most LCC's have a Volume based model when compared with the likes of Eastern Airways or VLM for example. Those that sit on the middle are generally the airlines with no clear strategy are generally the ones that end up belly up.
Whether an airline or route is or indeed isn't profitable depends on overall revenue whether this is achieved through High LF/Low Yield or High Yield/Low LF. This is not done at a route level, this is sometimes even at a flight number level where demand varies.
It's not as straight forward as it first sounds, there's a science behind it.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: South Wales
Age: 51
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Just had an e-mail pop into my inbox regarding the survey I completed on the website a few weeks back.
http://www.youwouldifyoucould.co.uk/results.html
Interesting cooments
Early results are already proving to be of interest to airlines, with initial data confirming that the majority of business travellers in Wales still use British Airways from London Heathrow, primarily due to having a limited choice of direct routes from Cardiff.
The main destinations for business travel include Europe and North America, but the survey showed that German cities are in great demand, with four appearing in the top ten city destinations visited by business executives.
The results also confirm that Welsh business representatives prefer to start their journey from their local airport, and the clear message gathered from the survey is the need for a more comprehensive business route network from Cardiff.
Positive feedback has been received from a number of leading airlines prepared to consider the possibilities of linking Wales with Germany, in addition to providing new links with Scandinavia and Belgium.
A further 25 meetings with Airlines will be held during May and June using the evidence from the survey to support the case for more routes from Cardiff International Airport.
Let the speculation begin!
http://www.youwouldifyoucould.co.uk/results.html
Interesting cooments
Early results are already proving to be of interest to airlines, with initial data confirming that the majority of business travellers in Wales still use British Airways from London Heathrow, primarily due to having a limited choice of direct routes from Cardiff.
The main destinations for business travel include Europe and North America, but the survey showed that German cities are in great demand, with four appearing in the top ten city destinations visited by business executives.
The results also confirm that Welsh business representatives prefer to start their journey from their local airport, and the clear message gathered from the survey is the need for a more comprehensive business route network from Cardiff.
Positive feedback has been received from a number of leading airlines prepared to consider the possibilities of linking Wales with Germany, in addition to providing new links with Scandinavia and Belgium.
A further 25 meetings with Airlines will be held during May and June using the evidence from the survey to support the case for more routes from Cardiff International Airport.
Let the speculation begin!
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: cardiff
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Choice of routes...
Dealing with a lot of business pax, the above point is continually made about the direct routes especially to Scandanavia and Germany. So many comment about the lack of routes BUT are so keen to get on with their business activities and trade in the area, they are more than prepared to have to take 2 or 3 flights to AMS (KL & WW) put up with long waits for connections there to CWL on average 3 - 4 hours. Anything better than using LHR.
One must ask how many people / businesses do NOT come to Wales due to this ???
One must ask how many people / businesses do NOT come to Wales due to this ???
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: UK
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Sorry I'll re-phrase, making money is everything. Yes LCC model works on high volume BUT each flight (or route) still has a budget and a break even point. Anyone could fill two 747s to PRG from CWL tomorrow if they wanted to go bankrupt doing it. You are absolutely right setting the fares at Baby, easy, ryanair is an absolute artform. Fortunately there are people out there that are really good at it. However it is also a factor of peoples marginal propensity to spend, the people looking to fly CWL to PRG (used as a useful example) might have a very low figure in mind before they will press that book now button. Much lower than the same person might have to hit the button going to ALC or MJV. This means the fare the carrier has to lead with to generate the volume is just too low to provide any viable return across a route a flight or even a season. This is the reason baby are constantly changing their route structure trying to find that happy place where enough consumers will press the book now button at a price that makes the whole thing worthwhile.
And yes I believe I already said the Bean Counters can, and do, have their own agenda. But there's nothing any of us can do about that !
P.S. Rumour on BMI thread of 6 new hulls for Baby coming from Virgin Nigeria as they convert to bus all previously exEZY. There has been a lack of affordable classics in the market and that has not helped CWL as baby has chosen to concentrate on BHX. If true CWL will get the 4th aircraft and possibly some new routes or at least an improved less bitty timetable of existing ones.
But again rumour and speculation are just that !
And yes I believe I already said the Bean Counters can, and do, have their own agenda. But there's nothing any of us can do about that !
P.S. Rumour on BMI thread of 6 new hulls for Baby coming from Virgin Nigeria as they convert to bus all previously exEZY. There has been a lack of affordable classics in the market and that has not helped CWL as baby has chosen to concentrate on BHX. If true CWL will get the 4th aircraft and possibly some new routes or at least an improved less bitty timetable of existing ones.
But again rumour and speculation are just that !
Join Date: Feb 2008
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business travellers
Other points to consider are for business people are that they want to check in online, park close to terminal, i.e. short stay, and not to be stuck in a spiralling queue through departures as was the other morning. We need to make departures bigger, go up with a multistorey and have more security operatives at busy times on search.
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: South Wales
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Multistorey will be out of the window for this year as they have put up the fences ready for the temporary car park on the disused.
We have an extended departure loung it's just they haven't finished it off, but i recently seen a map labeling the part of the airport and i'm sure it's east departures and west departures (if i am correct), but not sure as to when they are going to finish it off.
I think the best idea as talked about before is to make upstairs the departure lounge which will allow the re-location of the security check-point which is running out of space.
Security is getting rediculous and is allready starting to cause some delays.
We have an extended departure loung it's just they haven't finished it off, but i recently seen a map labeling the part of the airport and i'm sure it's east departures and west departures (if i am correct), but not sure as to when they are going to finish it off.
I think the best idea as talked about before is to make upstairs the departure lounge which will allow the re-location of the security check-point which is running out of space.
Security is getting rediculous and is allready starting to cause some delays.
Join Date: Aug 2006
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A profitable base can be made to look unprofitable if it wants it closed or assets relocated. Happened at a previous company because it suited the parent company's long term aims.
However, I don't think CWL will ever recover to the level of traffic (in aircraft movements per day) it once had.
ttfn
Join Date: Jan 2008
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I think it's one of those one off specials you get with Newmarket Holidays. I know they were planning a week's holiday there. I know they've done Naples, Sicily, Sardinia etc in the past. They fly from BRS, EXT and many other aiports in the UK with these types of holiday
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Cardiff
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The Croatia Airlines flight operates every May from CWL to Split, it is a Pilgrimage flight - nothing on the scale of the Lourdes flights though !
Is it true that Aviance are in financial problems - closing some bases ? Let's hope CWL is okay !!!
Just 10 days to the Heineken Cup - it gonna be fun...........why didnt the Airport bod's wait with that fence for the car park, it is going to be a nightmare accessing BAMC & Echo with a single lane road - all you need is to be stuck behind a coach or baggage cart and your stuffed !!!!!
I see the list is growing with BMI baby, Eastern Airways and Transavia France all joining in on this date. Good old CWL will look like an Airport for once. Aircraft from SWM, J31's and J41's right up to B757's, A321's and A330's.
Still here these Ryan Air rumours circulating - anyone else heard anything on these ?????
Is it true that Aviance are in financial problems - closing some bases ? Let's hope CWL is okay !!!
Just 10 days to the Heineken Cup - it gonna be fun...........why didnt the Airport bod's wait with that fence for the car park, it is going to be a nightmare accessing BAMC & Echo with a single lane road - all you need is to be stuck behind a coach or baggage cart and your stuffed !!!!!
I see the list is growing with BMI baby, Eastern Airways and Transavia France all joining in on this date. Good old CWL will look like an Airport for once. Aircraft from SWM, J31's and J41's right up to B757's, A321's and A330's.
Still here these Ryan Air rumours circulating - anyone else heard anything on these ?????
