BELFAST (BHD) - 3

[q1W2e3R4t5]

If the local corner shop can do it as competitive, faster, give you the same choice using local produce than the big supermarket chains then why would you.

My local doesnt need to stock everything from a chicken dinner to a 32 " LCD (cargo), do late night opening (charters) or have a 40ft lorry deliver its goods (widebody).

Perhaps you should have tried listening to the numerous companies and individuals who when asked, could list the benefits to NI, not just FR but by those that will follow.

[eastern wiseguy]

What would those benefits be?.Specifically to NI PLC?
Answers should not include taking people FROM here to obscure European destinations. Please list some of the INWARD benefits that would be reaped which are not ALREADY being realised . Please explain how Ryanair contribute ANYTHING to the balance sheet at BHD. My feeling is that they are on an advantageous rate for landing and that they will expect their pax to subsidise the operation by buying knick knacks and assorted geegaws from the shopping facilities there.
I wonder how long the opening offer from BHD,if one was offered(on such items as landing/parking fees) lasts before they have to start paying a non introductory rate?
I expect that will be around the time we hear about crippling charges and inflexibility from Ryanair management.
I recall being told that Ryanairs modus operandii was to suggest to an airport that THEY paid Ryanair a sum for each passenger that they delivered to the airport. Whether this is true or not I have no idea but it does seem to have a whiff of probability about it.

[q1W2e3R4t5]

This is from 2006,

BCA has also declared an intention to explore opportunities for developing services in selected areas of the air charter market.
Some potential destinations that might be of interest to air charter operators are beyond the range of those aircraft types
currently using the airport and carrying a full load of passengers. Should a viable business case be made to BCA for the
operation of such services, BCA would initiate a detailed study of all the implications, including cost, construction,
environmental and operational, of re-configuring the runway to accommodate the services. Were it then considered that the

project had merit, a planning application would be submitted.

so before Ryanair even stepped on Belfast tarmac the airport had made their feelings clear. Once again they just needed the right one to come along.

and from the report

81% of businesses in Belfast support the proposed runway extension at George Best Belfast City airport and believe it would help Belfast expand as a prospering city according to a research study conducted by Millward Brown Ulster.

The recent survey uncovered overwhelming support from the business community for the airport's planning application to lengthen the runway with almost 90% believing the airport had a positive impact on Belfast's economy.

Other findings from the research highlighted that:

76% believe the runway extension would increase tourists visiting Northern Ireland, especially Belfast.
73% of those polled stated that if all things were equal ie price and destination they would use Belfast City rather than Belfast International Airport.

and its because people say

My feeling is that

and

I recall being told

that have no evidence but misinform others.

[clareview]

BHD Runway

Just picked up the tail end of a brief news report about a legal challenge to some report or other which could delay the public enquiry.

[True Blue]

Tallinman, your post no 3537 is absolutely spot on. This is not about the greater good of NI plc, only about increasing the value of Bhd from an investment point of view. I have good knowledge of these issues and they will do/say what is necesary to try and achieve the extension.

True Blue

[clareview]

a private company is not in the business of bringing benefit to Northern Ireland. It exists, whether it is the owner of Belfast City Airport or the owner of an airline, to make money for the owners - simple economics

[sarcon]

Anyone who ever thought that the plans to develop 'city' was really part of a strategy to develop tourism and boost the economy of NI must be mad. A 'bank own the airport, and we know that nothing matters to bankers other than their financial well being. I think we will shortly see some changes at city, all that networking may have paid off at last!

[BFS101]

Tallinnman and Sarcon, completely agree, and unfortunately reminds us of the ugly face of business. That BHD management and owners are out to make a profit and seek the best return on their investment. If they can spin this to allege benefit for Northern Ireland, or the greater good then all the better for them. Not just specific to BHD, but now to businesses as a whole, all about financial return and worth, not necessarily about the best service or requirement.

However, it's the public of Northern Ireland, and around Belfast specifically that are concerned with the long-term outcome. How BHD development, or not, will affect the wider economy, people's liftstyles living around the airport and the structured planned growth of aviation from Northern Ireland. Rather than short-term economics for the owners, we should think of the longer term necessity.

I think we will shortly see some changes at city, all that networking may have paid off at last!

Any details Sarcon that you can spill... Tres intrigued.

[tallinnman]

Q1w2e3r5ty

If the local corner shop can do it as competitive, faster, give you the same choice using local produce than the big supermarket chains then why would you.

But it can't - hence why BHD wants to change what it purchased. There is an industry figure of c5m pax which brings significant cost/revenue benefits for airport operators.

My local doesnt need to stock everything from a chicken dinner to a 32 " LCD (cargo), do late night opening (charters) or have a 40ft lorry deliver its goods (widebody).

But BHD does want to stock everything in their small store and there isn't room hence they need to expand.

Perhaps you should have tried listening to the numerous companies and individuals who when asked, could list the benefits to NI, not just FR but by those that will follow.

Of course an airport close to a thriving business centre would be welcomed by 'numerous companies' and 'individuals'. Only thing is we already had one that was welcomed by its neighbours. Unfortunately it was very appealing to the carpetbaggers who thought they could buy it and dramatically increase its value. (at the time 'airport infrastructure funds' were very popular, the local community possibly naive and local politicians positively inept and/or corrupt).

Bob Dylan says it well -

For the times they are a-changin’

More and more people in the community are realising the runway extension brings no benefits other than to the fund managers and FR.

Over to you - what are the benefits of having a bigger runway at BHD?

[dublinaviator]

Originally Posted by tallinnman

More and more people in the community are realising the runway extension brings no benefits other than to the fund managers and FR.

Over to you - what are the benefits of having a bigger runway at BHD?

More routes, more competition, more choice?

[gate 22]

More routes, more competition, more choice?

From travellers originating in NI, more routes, more competition split over two airports means less choice, less frequency, from each airport therefore less competition. NI is a small market place not like Dub or Man. The only winners are the airlines.

[BFS101]

More routes, more competition, more choice?

There needs to be adequate demand to sustain new routes, more competition and to increase choice. Northern Ireland is a fairly small place in the grand scheme of things. Aer Lingus to their credit, amongst others, tried a number of new routes, and demand was limited; and on AMS, NCE and CDG etc, demand showed that two competing operators on the routes was simply unsustainable. I can't see FR having a dramatically different outcome.

I therefore can't really see what significant benefit FR will actually have. They will try new routes, like many before them, pull them when they realise there is not the demand. Piggyback on the popular sun / city routes and attack the competition. In the short term an unsustainable price war, that many of the runway extension / Ryanair fans will ignorantly cite as the long-term benefit of lower fares. Easyjet or other airlines (potentially also FR) may then end up pulling the routes in competition, so again Northern Ireland will will be left with the same routes, again with a single carrier.

Business is business, and as mentioned the airlines and airports will fight tooth and nail to increase value of their product, why shouldn't they; but many have no long-term regard or great interest in the consequences they may leave in their wake. FR and Shannon spring to mind.

[Tower Ranger]

Improved stopping distance in the event of RTO, improved LDA, better payload ability and surely there is no such thing as too much runway? What`s wrong with the Airport wanting to maximise its potential after all how many airports are not trying to make a profit?

[sarcon]

101, I have heard from a normally reliable source, not that man in the park, that BA is moving on. Anyone else heard this?

[elle may clampit]

Yep - heard the BA story earlier as well. Any idea what's going on??

[clareview]

BHD

Every business passes its costs on to its customers. For example, when a supermarket expands or renovates in order to carry more lines, who picks up the tab - all the customers and not just those that buy the new lines. Similarly with an airport - all its cunstomers pay for improvements even if not all benefit directly from them.

BHD management will have looked carefully at this investment decision, as it has done with all the other improvements over the years, and taken a view as to whether the market will allow it to recoup the cost in a reasonable timeframe. There is no way it will have done so on the basis only of Ryanair.

[Belboy]

You're right, the airport management should have considered all of the factors before suggesting to the new owners that investing was a great idea but I am not convinced they did. I believe they have based their business plan solely on getting the extension and FR then being able to cherry pick the elements of the European business already established at Aldergrove. If not based on FR, who? Few other are in growth mode at the minute.

[sarcon]

It will be very interesting to see if there are changes at the city, it's difficult to see how there wont be now that everything spouted over the last 12 -18 months seems to be untrue. Look at the facts, the runway was to have been in operation by now, but it isnt. And we have just learned that the PAC has taken a course of action unprecedented in its history and rejected a request for a PI. Why was this? This would lead one to further question what value has in fact been added to city in recent years. No significant infrastructure (remember that the new BCA was fully built and operational before the current regime took over). The recent redecoration and realignment of the terminal is hardly major. The important long-term deals with bmi and flybe were already negotiated and in place also. Seems like their only contribution to the regional aviation scene was to induce ryanair in to pee all over aer lingus and trash the market for everyone else in the process, and even the promises made to FR appear now to have been empty.

[BFS101]

And we have just learned that the PAC has taken a course of action unprecedented in its history and rejected a request for a PI.

I think they have just refused to commence the Public Inquiry until all the relevant information is gathered. Once the noise assessment data is correctly received, I think that the PI will commence.

[elle may clampit]

If the BA speculation is fact, any idea where to?