LUTON - 6
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All depends where you think London begins and ends. I count 30 as stations like Mill Hill, Wimbledon and Sutton have London addresses
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...ent=NetworkMap
http://www.firstcapitalconnect.co.uk...ent=NetworkMap
Last edited by LTNman; 20th Sep 2007 at 23:12.
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Then you shouldn't be comparing it against 2 for Stansted (as you've only counted Central/London Mainline) i.e; Liverpool Street & Tottenham Hale. You need also count; Enfield Lock, Angel Road, Northumberland Park, and Stratford all served direct. Also Stansted's station is slap bang on site (step off train, lift, terminal building). I waited nearly 15 mins the other day outside Luton Parkway for a bus, then suffered the crampt conditions as nearly 100 people tried to cram onto the small bus. Far from ideal and will always be a factor when using Luton by rail with luggage/children/poor weather. Anyhow lets just appreciate that both airports have their benefits road, rail, location what ever and move on from the "my airport's better than yours" monthly debate. People will decide for them selves where to fly from when faced with a choice.
Also is it me or are there no signs to the gates once through security??? Once through I was faced with a "mini-version of Bluewater" and no idea which way to the gate and running late, should I go left or right??? Not very well designed (being my first experience of the new departure lounge). Luton management if you read this take note!
Also is it me or are there no signs to the gates once through security??? Once through I was faced with a "mini-version of Bluewater" and no idea which way to the gate and running late, should I go left or right??? Not very well designed (being my first experience of the new departure lounge). Luton management if you read this take note!
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LTN is a regional airport...
Whilst LTN can't compete with STN for long-haul - at least not until the Boeing 787-300 comes on line - in the 'lo-co' short and medium-haul market, it's now giving STN a good run for its money despite previous years of mis-management and Council incompetence.
As for Lorraine Chase - who's she? You must be that 'flower power' kipper tie & flares wearer seen loitering in the LTN terminal last month...
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Also is it me or are there no signs to the gates once through security??? Once through I was faced with a "mini-version of Bluewater" and no idea which way to the gate and running late, should I go left or right??? Not very well designed (being my first experience of the new departure lounge). Luton management if you read this take note!
It’s you I am afraid, as there are plenty of directional signs to the gates including estimated walking times from the shopping centre/lounge to the gates. While I can see many negative passenger issues at Luton signage is not one of them.
Rail access is far superior to STN, for example 23 minutes non-stop to St. Pancras as opposed to 44 minutes to Liverpool Street
Last edited by LTNman; 21st Sep 2007 at 06:17.
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...you can spend another 23 minutes getting from the Station to the Terminal
The access point for the Airport shuttle buses at Luton Airport Parkway Station was originally planned for the same side of the tracks to the Airport but I believe that difficulties with Vauxhall Motors giving up the required land plus issues relating to the required 'Public Safety Zone' (the dimensions and criteria for which were later altered by the authorities such that it could have enabled a better-planned station building layout and road access) meant that the station forecourt and road access all had to be built on the west side of the railway line.
As LTNman says, the dedicated bus access to/from the Station forecourt from the A505 bridge should improve things (it probably will also need to be controlled by prioritising traffic lights) but the real issue is the Airport's central terminal area road system which appears to have been planned by Mickey Mouse.
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Mickey Mouse! Travel to Chessy on the TGV. That is how to design a public transport terminus! Luton is certainly not like Paris Disney. Mickey Mouse has moved 'up market', clearly Luton has taken a dive in term of access, but the road infrastructure upgrades will deliver cars from the motorway much quicker to the queues to the 'drop off Tinminal area'!
The walk from CDG Terminal 3 to the CDGVAL is like walking from the departure lounge at Luton to Stand 1, but without the mad Parisian taxi drivers. Beds are provided en route courtesy of Ibis!
Hopefully the 'People Mover' concept proposed but cost engineered out of the Parkway, will surface once more, 20 years after its conception! Remember, folk would have been able to arrive at the Parkway, check in then take a 'rapid access train' to the departure lounge.
Designing a tinminal in a cul de sac was a wholly Town Hall endorsed project, but conceived in the early 1990's and certainly the thinking then was not to deliver 10 million + passengers to the central area.
The walk from CDG Terminal 3 to the CDGVAL is like walking from the departure lounge at Luton to Stand 1, but without the mad Parisian taxi drivers. Beds are provided en route courtesy of Ibis!
Hopefully the 'People Mover' concept proposed but cost engineered out of the Parkway, will surface once more, 20 years after its conception! Remember, folk would have been able to arrive at the Parkway, check in then take a 'rapid access train' to the departure lounge.
Designing a tinminal in a cul de sac was a wholly Town Hall endorsed project, but conceived in the early 1990's and certainly the thinking then was not to deliver 10 million + passengers to the central area.
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I read with interest the last few Posts on this Thread.
Having used both STN and LTN recently , i would prefer Luton everytime.
Although i agree that the Shuttle Bus from Parkway Station is at best "Cramped" during Peak , once in The Terminal the Layout is much Better.
Try using STN during the early morning rush.Both the queues for Check-in and Security merge.I have found their Staff to be, at best Stressed , and mostly unhelpful.
At least at Luton it is seperated on two Floors and you are checked before going up to Departures.
With regard to the Parkway Station , a friend of mine was actually involved in the Planning Stages and ebenezer is correct about the difficulties with land and the Public Safety Zone issues.I believe this was due to the building regulations within the Flight Arrival / Departure flightpath to Runway 08.
In fact i also believe that if Planning consent was requested today to build Capability Business Park it would be refused due to the movements at LTN.
Having said that does anybody know if there are plans to Change the Station layout and have check-in desks added.The proposal to have the "People Mover" reconsidered would be nice but i think unlikely given all the problems with the concession.
On a totally different subject, and i am not sure if this has already been discussed here but i understand that when the 787 Dreamliner comes to LTN it cant get past the Easyjet hangar due to wingtip clearance and will have to go via Taxi-way Delta and the Link to the Main Apron in order to get to their hangar.
This will mean that the Thomson Building (The one on Stilts opposite the Flying Club-sorry dont know the Building Numbers) and the operations building next door will be lined up for Demolition in the next Plans for the Master Draft due at the year end.Anyone know if this is true
Having used both STN and LTN recently , i would prefer Luton everytime.
Although i agree that the Shuttle Bus from Parkway Station is at best "Cramped" during Peak , once in The Terminal the Layout is much Better.
Try using STN during the early morning rush.Both the queues for Check-in and Security merge.I have found their Staff to be, at best Stressed , and mostly unhelpful.
At least at Luton it is seperated on two Floors and you are checked before going up to Departures.
With regard to the Parkway Station , a friend of mine was actually involved in the Planning Stages and ebenezer is correct about the difficulties with land and the Public Safety Zone issues.I believe this was due to the building regulations within the Flight Arrival / Departure flightpath to Runway 08.
In fact i also believe that if Planning consent was requested today to build Capability Business Park it would be refused due to the movements at LTN.
Having said that does anybody know if there are plans to Change the Station layout and have check-in desks added.The proposal to have the "People Mover" reconsidered would be nice but i think unlikely given all the problems with the concession.
On a totally different subject, and i am not sure if this has already been discussed here but i understand that when the 787 Dreamliner comes to LTN it cant get past the Easyjet hangar due to wingtip clearance and will have to go via Taxi-way Delta and the Link to the Main Apron in order to get to their hangar.
This will mean that the Thomson Building (The one on Stilts opposite the Flying Club-sorry dont know the Building Numbers) and the operations building next door will be lined up for Demolition in the next Plans for the Master Draft due at the year end.Anyone know if this is true
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...when the B787 Dreamliner comes to LTN it cant get past the Easyjet hangar due to wingtip clearance
By the 'Link' I assume that you mean Taxiway Echo. To taxi along there under its own power, until the TUI building is demolished, it could only do so if it doesn't exceed the B757's wingspan. If it does, then it's a towing job and again, even this depends on the exact wingspan of the aircraft.
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Luton Parkway
As far as Luton Parkway - hasn't it got the green light for Platform extensions to handle 12 car trains in the future? Would have thought if Railtrack are investing here then it would make more sense to add additional facilities here at the same time - but that would involve the council again so....
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Parkway
A check-in area was planned for the first floor where the newsagents is today. With the nightmare traffic conditions at peak periods it was never going to work as there would have been delays in getting the baggage to the aircraft.
I saw planning applications for the 2 buildings that where proposed for the site that the station was built on. A plan showed the public safety zone running along the front of the station entrance, which is why it was built at a 45-degree angle to the railway line. The building was built to the maximum size in the pocket of land that was available. This is why there are so many short escalators in the building to get to the platforms and not one long one.
From memory the car park was given an exemption as it is inside the zone.
The station will be the first station to be expanded to cater for 12 carriage trains. This is part of Project 2000, which is already 7 years late.
How the station might have looked
I saw planning applications for the 2 buildings that where proposed for the site that the station was built on. A plan showed the public safety zone running along the front of the station entrance, which is why it was built at a 45-degree angle to the railway line. The building was built to the maximum size in the pocket of land that was available. This is why there are so many short escalators in the building to get to the platforms and not one long one.
From memory the car park was given an exemption as it is inside the zone.
The station will be the first station to be expanded to cater for 12 carriage trains. This is part of Project 2000, which is already 7 years late.
How the station might have looked
Last edited by LTNman; 22nd Sep 2007 at 18:58.
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A check-in area was planned for the first floor where the newsagents is today. With the nightmare traffic conditions at peak periods it was never going to work as there would have been delays in getting the baggage to the aircraft.
I saw planning applications for the 2 buildings that where proposed for the site that the station was built on. A plan showed the public safety zone running along the front of the station entrance, which is why it was built at a 45-degree angle to the railway line. The building was built to the maximum size in the pocket of land that was available. This is why there are so many short escalators in the building to get to the platforms and not one long one.
From memory the car park was given an exemption as it is inside the zone.
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Wow, I knew this was going to provocative!!! Nothing has changed in nearly 20 years! I appreciate the frustration that a lot of people feel, including my mate from what was then BY and the policital connections that the BAA allegedly had/have, but what I was trying to point out, was that when the decision on Londons third (not fifth!!) Airport was made, there was only one choice!! There is a whole heap of tarmac in Essex that subject to the local 'nimbys' you can keep spreading, not the case in LTN with cliff edges at the end of the runway, border disputes, etc. As I said before, an acceptable regional Airport.
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CAP493, you're a LTN fan and you don't know who Lorraine Chase was? Wow"!! She was the bird in the Campari advert (I think, but will no doubt be corrected by those with a better memory!) who basically put LTN on the map!
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Chopper69 you are not provocative, no where near as important.
The whole concept of London Luton Airport started in the early 90s. It was clear we were not a 'regional' airport as were not in a region other than London. A survey of travel agents in north London and the northern home counties showed they would always sell Gatwick as a departure point. Luton was 'up the M1 somewhere' and Stansted 'out in the sticks'. So London Luton Airport was born and a huge campaign started to convince travel agents to sell Luton. We were more holiday then than schedule service.
And it worked too. We even won an award for the best re-branding of the time. A considerable amount has changed in 20 years.
Sorry you support Essex Regional Airport, I think that is the pits too. If I want to go for a long walk I do it in the countryside, not round a terminal building.
The whole concept of London Luton Airport started in the early 90s. It was clear we were not a 'regional' airport as were not in a region other than London. A survey of travel agents in north London and the northern home counties showed they would always sell Gatwick as a departure point. Luton was 'up the M1 somewhere' and Stansted 'out in the sticks'. So London Luton Airport was born and a huge campaign started to convince travel agents to sell Luton. We were more holiday then than schedule service.
And it worked too. We even won an award for the best re-branding of the time. A considerable amount has changed in 20 years.
Sorry you support Essex Regional Airport, I think that is the pits too. If I want to go for a long walk I do it in the countryside, not round a terminal building.
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The whole concept of London Luton Airport started in the early 90s.
I appreciate the sentiment, but nothing has changed!! I know how those that were passionately involved with the development of LTN (two were my best mates!!) feel that they were 'wronged'. Let me take this back to basics . . . if an Operator wanted to plan a 747 operation out of LTN, what would you do??
I appreciate the sentiment, but nothing has changed!! I know how those that were passionately involved with the development of LTN (two were my best mates!!) feel that they were 'wronged'. Let me take this back to basics . . . if an Operator wanted to plan a 747 operation out of LTN, what would you do??