LUTON - 6
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I just had to see how long it took one of you old tower boys to take the bait...
- so what exactly is your point (apart from descending into mindless ageism)?? 
Strange how Gibraltar, which is a British territory is exempt
As for the congestion in the TMA, well this will be entirely solved during the spring
The plans I have seen for 2009 looks as thought it will reduce the amount of departures compared to now.
It could be even worse if Luton App are working too many Cambridge, Cranfield and Northolt departures as the plans suggest.
It could be even worse if Luton App are working too many Cambridge, Cranfield and Northolt departures as the plans suggest.
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Reduce the number of departures compared to now? Well that has not been included in NATS PR so far, the new TMA will be like a huge sponge, soaking up everything and massively increasing capacity, well that is assuming the new Cumulo Nibus deflectors work out of the box!
I understand with the new automated fight management based arrival and departure routes, ATC delays will once more be consigned to the past.
Note 1 for Buster: Don't always believe everything you read!
Note 2 for Buster: It always rains in England!
Note 3 for Buster. The airport will be bought by a wealthy American who will close the airport, convert the tinminal and bring indoor Super League Soccer to Luton!
Note 4 for Buster. The words SkyEurope and Volare do not rhyme!
I understand with the new automated fight management based arrival and departure routes, ATC delays will once more be consigned to the past.
Note 1 for Buster: Don't always believe everything you read!
Note 2 for Buster: It always rains in England!
Note 3 for Buster. The airport will be bought by a wealthy American who will close the airport, convert the tinminal and bring indoor Super League Soccer to Luton!
Note 4 for Buster. The words SkyEurope and Volare do not rhyme!
Paxing All Over The World
Diving back into the water logged tunnel for a moment... 
No one expects a site to plan and build for rain like we had on Friday to occur all the time. One would not expect them to have a bilge and pumps/drainage to handle that volume all the time BUT they might have installed pumps that could clear a flood like that in, say 15 minutes.
Obviously there is a ratio between the biggest pumps to handle that flow every day and pumps that handle 25 or 33% of that flow every rainy day. If you then have a very bad storm, the pumps should be able to clear it in a specified time. It appears that such a provision is not in place.
No one expects a site to plan and build for rain like we had on Friday to occur all the time. One would not expect them to have a bilge and pumps/drainage to handle that volume all the time BUT they might have installed pumps that could clear a flood like that in, say 15 minutes.
Obviously there is a ratio between the biggest pumps to handle that flow every day and pumps that handle 25 or 33% of that flow every rainy day. If you then have a very bad storm, the pumps should be able to clear it in a specified time. It appears that such a provision is not in place.
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Thanks for a most constructive comment LTNman - so what exactly is your point (apart from descending into mindless ageism)??
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The plans I have seen for 2009 looks as thought it will reduce the amount of departures compared to now.
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LTNman
To all those who have been giving their six pennyworth about the horrendous conditions at Luton on Friday afternoon, I happened to be there at the time. The tunnel was cleared in about two hours of flood water by a couple of fire engines and help from the Airport Fire Brigade as well. There were cars practically submerged in the tunnel so it was not just getting rid of the water. Personally, I don’t think any planning would have been capable of handling that amount of water in such a short space of time. Of course the road network was in a mess, but I managed to extricate myself around 4 pm with not too much bother.
The airport continued to function through all of this, as far as I am aware only one aircraft diverted – an Easy to Stansted due to windshear on finals – and no flights were cancelled which cannot be said for the shambles at Heathrow!. Two business aicraft landed in the downpour and reported no problems. Apparently staff could get to and from work – they had to use the security gate near the fuel farm and were bussed from their to the terminal.
I am making no political comment at all just trying to put the facts to all as I saw them and lets think about all those poor sods in the Cotswolds etc. who have been flooded out of their homes etc. plus the hundreds who were stuck on the M5 for hours without any food or water on Friday night. Lets put everything into perspective so waiting for two hours for a tunnel to be re-opened could be classed as a minor irritation!
The airport continued to function through all of this, as far as I am aware only one aircraft diverted – an Easy to Stansted due to windshear on finals – and no flights were cancelled which cannot be said for the shambles at Heathrow!. Two business aicraft landed in the downpour and reported no problems. Apparently staff could get to and from work – they had to use the security gate near the fuel farm and were bussed from their to the terminal.
I am making no political comment at all just trying to put the facts to all as I saw them and lets think about all those poor sods in the Cotswolds etc. who have been flooded out of their homes etc. plus the hundreds who were stuck on the M5 for hours without any food or water on Friday night. Lets put everything into perspective so waiting for two hours for a tunnel to be re-opened could be classed as a minor irritation!
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Fine words from compton3bravo who reminds us all about the real issues that are affecting the country 
I see Harrods new home had no roof or protection during the monsoon
I see Harrods new home had no roof or protection during the monsoon
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I thought that the movements for June were massively up, well not according to the CAA (+3%)! I am confused as to how Luton has recorded record daily movement rates? I guess the removal of the flying club and the police helicopter have an effect?
London City movement rate is catching Luton at a rapid rate and they are closed for lengthy defined periods per week! Only 21 flights per day less as an average.
If you add into the equation the passengers figures, Luton is stagnating! More and more empty seats being flown and I would guess that this is industry wide?
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...Statistics.pdf
London City movement rate is catching Luton at a rapid rate and they are closed for lengthy defined periods per week! Only 21 flights per day less as an average.
If you add into the equation the passengers figures, Luton is stagnating! More and more empty seats being flown and I would guess that this is industry wide?
http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/80/airport...Statistics.pdf
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No world cup charters this year keeping figures down but on the other hand easyjet cancelled many flights last year due to a lack of crews. Even so passenger figures were around the 937,000 mark, which is up by over 6%.
Executive jet movements for June were up around 13% thus reducing the average passenger load per aircraft.
CAA figures state 79292 movements a year which equates to just 217 movements a day yet the actually daily rate now passes 400 a day.
Luton could well pass a million passengers in a calendar month this July or August.
Despite the ever increasing numbers and the ever-lengthening queues to get to the drop off area, which at 14.15 yesterday started at the Vauxhall roundabout, still nothing is being done to improve the CTA. If the queues were just another 30m long it would have blocked the A505 again.
Executive jet movements for June were up around 13% thus reducing the average passenger load per aircraft.
CAA figures state 79292 movements a year which equates to just 217 movements a day yet the actually daily rate now passes 400 a day.
Luton could well pass a million passengers in a calendar month this July or August.
Despite the ever increasing numbers and the ever-lengthening queues to get to the drop off area, which at 14.15 yesterday started at the Vauxhall roundabout, still nothing is being done to improve the CTA. If the queues were just another 30m long it would have blocked the A505 again.
Last edited by LTNman; 24th Jul 2007 at 06:14.
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The CAA statistics only relate to Air Transport movements and I assume do not include the Biz Jet Factor. The actual runway movement rate at Luton for June was in fact 11,242. This is far higher than the 7,253 movements that the CAA figures show.
I know London City have Biz Jets as well but they've got some distance to go yet.
Luton is the fifth busiest aiport in the country
I know London City have Biz Jets as well but they've got some distance to go yet.
Luton is the fifth busiest aiport in the country
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The CAA statistics only relate to Air Transport movements and I assume do not include the Biz Jet Factor.
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Oh how I love to tease!
Looks like Air Berlin withdrawal from the UK domestic market is yet another sign of over capacity/poor yields?
The summer rain has at least brought a glimmer of hope to the UK Lo-Co's who have taken a summer booking/yield battering this summer!
The plastic must be repaid and with the UK interest rates projected to climb, repaying the UK debt means that the Lo-Co's are looking outside the UK for profitable growth.
What you also have to take into consideration, the profit making ploy used by the established Lo-Co's of buying a new plane at discount, selling it at a profit on its delivery, then paying higher leasing charges for the airframe.
Every time you take delivery of a new aircraft you make a profit, but then you have to pay back higher leasing costs. As the cost of borrowing money rises, so do the leasing costs!
You end up only surviving by buying new planes!
Between 50 and 60% of Lo-Co profit is from non flying revenue.
If there has not been some serious consolidation or major airline failures within a year, I will be amazed.
The Lo-Co's have lots of new planes to fill and hefty penalties for delaying or cancelling orders which financially cannot be absorbed.
Looks like Air Berlin withdrawal from the UK domestic market is yet another sign of over capacity/poor yields?
The summer rain has at least brought a glimmer of hope to the UK Lo-Co's who have taken a summer booking/yield battering this summer!
The plastic must be repaid and with the UK interest rates projected to climb, repaying the UK debt means that the Lo-Co's are looking outside the UK for profitable growth.
What you also have to take into consideration, the profit making ploy used by the established Lo-Co's of buying a new plane at discount, selling it at a profit on its delivery, then paying higher leasing charges for the airframe.
Every time you take delivery of a new aircraft you make a profit, but then you have to pay back higher leasing costs. As the cost of borrowing money rises, so do the leasing costs!
You end up only surviving by buying new planes!
Between 50 and 60% of Lo-Co profit is from non flying revenue.
If there has not been some serious consolidation or major airline failures within a year, I will be amazed.
The Lo-Co's have lots of new planes to fill and hefty penalties for delaying or cancelling orders which financially cannot be absorbed.
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Glyn Jones, the former boss of Bournemouth Airport, has been named managing director of Luton Airport. He takes up the role on August 8.
Mr. Jones joins from pallet distribution network Palletline, where he has been managing director since 2003. Before that he was managing director at Bournemouth Airport after being commercial director at Hays DX and DHL.
He replaces Angel Lerma, who has been an interim managing director since Katherine James left earlier in the year. Mr. Lerma takes up the position of group operations director for parent company TBI-Abertis Airports.
Demetrio Ullastres, chairman of TBI, said: 'Glyn is a businessman with an excellent CV and experience at senior levels in transport, logistics and airport management. He is well equipped to lead the team through the next phase of our development.'
http://www.uk-airport-news.info/luto...ews-280707.htm
Mr. Jones joins from pallet distribution network Palletline, where he has been managing director since 2003. Before that he was managing director at Bournemouth Airport after being commercial director at Hays DX and DHL.
He replaces Angel Lerma, who has been an interim managing director since Katherine James left earlier in the year. Mr. Lerma takes up the position of group operations director for parent company TBI-Abertis Airports.
Demetrio Ullastres, chairman of TBI, said: 'Glyn is a businessman with an excellent CV and experience at senior levels in transport, logistics and airport management. He is well equipped to lead the team through the next phase of our development.'
http://www.uk-airport-news.info/luto...ews-280707.htm
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Glyn Jones, the former boss of Bournemouth Airport, has been named managing director of Luton Airport. He takes up the role on August 8. Jones joins from pallet distribution network Palletline, where he has been managing director since 2003. Before that he was managing director at Bournemouth Airport after being commercial director at Hays DX and DHL
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selling planes
The Lo-Co's have lots of new planes to fill and hefty penalties for delaying or cancelling orders which financially cannot be absorbed.
I guess it will have less change on luton than other places in the short term. I see Ryanair reducing stansted by a few planes and adding more to East Midlands. I guess luton will up its charges when the M1 is done which will change the mix of Lo-Co's. Ryanair are very cost sensative but already face big rises at Stansted. The airport may have the upper hand for once.
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How can they sell planes on expensive leases that they don't own? Granted Ryanair did own some of the older airframes, I doubt if easyJet currently own any?
No doubt the leasing firms who have purchased the airframes have in place stringent 'exit' clauses?
As for the new Luton MD. Went from bossing Hurn, to shifting pallets! Says a lot about the intentions of Abertis.....he must be inexpensive to employ? Low cost airport with low cost intentions? So I wonder what the ex Manchester Airports Group link is?
No doubt the leasing firms who have purchased the airframes have in place stringent 'exit' clauses?
As for the new Luton MD. Went from bossing Hurn, to shifting pallets! Says a lot about the intentions of Abertis.....he must be inexpensive to employ? Low cost airport with low cost intentions? So I wonder what the ex Manchester Airports Group link is?
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owning planes
Both Easyjet and ryanair have a complex mix of plane ownership. Leases are used to keep part of the fleet off the books. They also allow for them to translate discounts on aircraft into hidden profits. They also own some with a morgage. I am sure they are now powerful enougth to write the terms of the leases.
The 97 airbus 319 are split 46 owned, 45 under operating lease and 6 under finance lease. All 737s are under lease. They have 3 less 737-300 and 2 less 737-700 in the half year to March 07.
The 97 airbus 319 are split 46 owned, 45 under operating lease and 6 under finance lease. All 737s are under lease. They have 3 less 737-300 and 2 less 737-700 in the half year to March 07.
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46 owned outright A319's? Well if you have the proof, then I will believe you. I am still unsure how easyJet have paid £ millions to purchase 46 Airbus, seems an awful lot of cash tied up in assets?
So Bristol 'head hunt' their boss from a 'second rate' mail delivery firm whilst Luton recruited 'Pallet Man'!
So Bristol 'head hunt' their boss from a 'second rate' mail delivery firm whilst Luton recruited 'Pallet Man'!
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I have been to Bournemouth Airport many times over the years and it was always apparent that 'Pallet Man' did not like spending money no matter how bad the facilities. The arrivals area was a collection of bolted together tatty portokabins with plastic seating that looked like they were a job lot from a bankrupt engineering company’s canteen.
Can’t knock the man for wanting to better himself but what is Luton going to gain from his experience in running a major airport? Under him Bournemouth’s yearly passenger output is what Luton handles in a busy summer week.
Can’t knock the man for wanting to better himself but what is Luton going to gain from his experience in running a major airport? Under him Bournemouth’s yearly passenger output is what Luton handles in a busy summer week.
Last edited by LTNman; 31st Jul 2007 at 05:34.