BIRMINGHAM - 4
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Solihull
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Bhx V Edi
Exasperated
Err I was replying in general to the comment re full service carriers, I don't
see any mention of IT flights or loco's other than EDI having extra Ryanair
still not adding many pax.
Lyon - twice weekly easyjet (Loco) compared to double daily AF full service.
Why do you keep quoting loco destinations MAD, MXP, TXL? They are not
operated by full service airlines!!!! Okay I mentioned Aer Lingus but old habits
die hard, I know they are not full service although the last time I flew
with them they felt like one compared to others!
EDI - Up November +1.3% and 3.7% in October with two extra 189 seat planes which is 55000 extra pax based on 80% load factor for 30 days.
The point I was trying to make is that the Ryanair was masking the drop
in services by the full service carriers in the winter. To be honest the
summer increases were not that brilliant some months either.
Even February was only up 20000 and Ryanair probably would added
about 40000 pax although I do realise the based aircraft were not
always in the air.
Pete
Err I was replying in general to the comment re full service carriers, I don't
see any mention of IT flights or loco's other than EDI having extra Ryanair
still not adding many pax.
Lyon - twice weekly easyjet (Loco) compared to double daily AF full service.
Why do you keep quoting loco destinations MAD, MXP, TXL? They are not
operated by full service airlines!!!! Okay I mentioned Aer Lingus but old habits
die hard, I know they are not full service although the last time I flew
with them they felt like one compared to others!
EDI - Up November +1.3% and 3.7% in October with two extra 189 seat planes which is 55000 extra pax based on 80% load factor for 30 days.
The point I was trying to make is that the Ryanair was masking the drop
in services by the full service carriers in the winter. To be honest the
summer increases were not that brilliant some months either.
Even February was only up 20000 and Ryanair probably would added
about 40000 pax although I do realise the based aircraft were not
always in the air.
Pete
Join Date: Aug 2002
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BHX versus EDI
Pete
Also a very important point to make is that EDI is now heavily reliant upon FR and EZY. BHX on the other hand has lots of airlines low cost, full service, charter and long haul.
When Mr O'Leary falls out with BAA at Edinburgh (as soon as the new service low landing and handling fees come to an end), down the passenger numbers will go. Look what happened at STN, this is an example of what happens when an airport relies on a few airlines that become too dominant.
IMO Birmingham is getting the balance just right. The main causes for Birmingham Airports fall in passenger numbers are;
1 BMIBaby have fled back to EMA in fear following the Ryanair move into BHX.
2 Birmingham is the 3rd largest Charter flight airport in the UK and has and is still suffering from the long term decline in the package holiday market.
Daza
Also a very important point to make is that EDI is now heavily reliant upon FR and EZY. BHX on the other hand has lots of airlines low cost, full service, charter and long haul.
When Mr O'Leary falls out with BAA at Edinburgh (as soon as the new service low landing and handling fees come to an end), down the passenger numbers will go. Look what happened at STN, this is an example of what happens when an airport relies on a few airlines that become too dominant.
IMO Birmingham is getting the balance just right. The main causes for Birmingham Airports fall in passenger numbers are;
1 BMIBaby have fled back to EMA in fear following the Ryanair move into BHX.
2 Birmingham is the 3rd largest Charter flight airport in the UK and has and is still suffering from the long term decline in the package holiday market.
Daza
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Err I was replying in general to the comment re full service carriers, I don't see any mention of IT flights or loco's other than EDI having extra Ryanair
still not adding many pax.
still not adding many pax.
You mentioned Ryanair specifically as an issue but I believe both airports have 4 aircraft based at the moment, unless I am wrong.
Ex
Join Date: Aug 2006
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BMIBaby have fled back to EMA in fear following the Ryanair move into BHX
In terms of EDI pax figures, domestic flights do account for a large chunk of their total which BHX will never have in the same numbers due to its much more central location and proximity to London
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Baby at EMA
Gayfriendly,
Would BMIBaby have moved back up the M42 if EZY had not have pulled out? Baby originally grew at BHX when FR grew at EMA. As far as I am aware FR and WW compete on very few routes ex EMA.
The gap left by BACON has never really been filled at BHX or MAN that also accounts for the route network holes such as LIS, FCO, VIE, ARN, OSL, TXL, MAD (OK soon to be filled, but not to suit business.)
I do agree that the gap between low fares and full service is narrowing all the time. The above mentioned routes don't suit large volume, daily departures by 320/737 types ex BHX or other regional airports. For this reason CGN will not work with a 737 too many passengers.
Rant over bed time now!
Daza
Would BMIBaby have moved back up the M42 if EZY had not have pulled out? Baby originally grew at BHX when FR grew at EMA. As far as I am aware FR and WW compete on very few routes ex EMA.
The gap left by BACON has never really been filled at BHX or MAN that also accounts for the route network holes such as LIS, FCO, VIE, ARN, OSL, TXL, MAD (OK soon to be filled, but not to suit business.)
I do agree that the gap between low fares and full service is narrowing all the time. The above mentioned routes don't suit large volume, daily departures by 320/737 types ex BHX or other regional airports. For this reason CGN will not work with a 737 too many passengers.
Rant over bed time now!
Daza
BHX vs. EDI
The growth pattern at EDI really started after devolution, when Edinburgh became a "proper" capital city of semi independent country.
Thereafter the growth in international business services moved away from GLA towards EDI, and aside of the LoCo operators EDI now has a good base of proper schedules, and also a growing inbound leisure market.
I don't doubt for a moment that if the UK was a federal country, with Birmingham as capital of say the Midlands you may well see better air links, such as you find in Dusseldorf (principal city in NRW), Hannover (capital of Niedersachsen) and Stuttgard (Baden Würtemburg).
Sadly that ain't the case, and with the eventual, and inevitable building of LHR's third runway, the business market is likely to become ever more Londoncentric.
Thereafter the growth in international business services moved away from GLA towards EDI, and aside of the LoCo operators EDI now has a good base of proper schedules, and also a growing inbound leisure market.
I don't doubt for a moment that if the UK was a federal country, with Birmingham as capital of say the Midlands you may well see better air links, such as you find in Dusseldorf (principal city in NRW), Hannover (capital of Niedersachsen) and Stuttgard (Baden Würtemburg).
Sadly that ain't the case, and with the eventual, and inevitable building of LHR's third runway, the business market is likely to become ever more Londoncentric.
Brunel to Concorde
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In terms of EDI pax figures, domestic flights do account for a large chunk of their total which BHX will never have in the same numbers due to its much more central location and proximity to London
I don't doubt for a moment that if the UK was a federal country, with Birmingham as capital of say the Midlands you may well see better air links, such as you find in Dusseldorf (principal city in NRW), Hannover (capital of Niedersachsen) and Stuttgard (Baden Würtemburg).
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For this reason CGN will not work with a 737 too many passengers.
MV:
Trouble is, in my recollection it ain't that near Cardiff, and a pig to get to by road or rail - a bit like Bristol in that respect I suppose
Trouble is, in my recollection it ain't that near Cardiff, and a pig to get to by road or rail - a bit like Bristol in that respect I suppose
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It was, I flew on it I think in 1991! LH also tried CGN I think it started in 2000 can't remember for sure exactly when but I know it stopped immediately after 9/11. It was an F50 twice daily M-F. So thats Lufty, BA, Duo, Germanwings, TUIFly and now BMIBaby. Well good luck to them, Cologne is a great place to visit and I for one hope this is a new beginning for Baby at BHX, leave FR and MON to fight it out on the sun routes and get some decent city connections back to BHX
Join Date: Feb 2010
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bmi baby have released an article in the MEN stating that at MAN, they are going to move away from the high competition 'bucket and spade' routes and operate cities and niche unserved markets, so maybe they could do the same as BHX. Its about time they offered something different as opposed to blending into the background on busy routes.
Shame at MAN they have highlighted MUC (served by 3 carriers) and venice (served by jet2), which contradicts the 'no competition' approach!
Link to the article here:
Niche routes are key for bmibaby in Manchester - Manchester Evening News
Shame at MAN they have highlighted MUC (served by 3 carriers) and venice (served by jet2), which contradicts the 'no competition' approach!
Link to the article here:
Niche routes are key for bmibaby in Manchester - Manchester Evening News
Join Date: Sep 2002
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Well if BMI Baby is considering a route such as MAN-MUC (or even BHX-MUC) it is unlikely to be in competition with their ultimate owner Lufthansa. It will be with the consent and full cooperation of Lufthansa. Perhaps thought is being given to BMI Baby displacing DLH on the route with a product offering more aligned with that of EZY (also now competing on MAN-MUC).
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well, they are already offering MAN-CGN-MUC via germanwings, and I would have thought it could work for BHX offering BHX-CGN via Baby, then MUC via 4U.
Thisng is, they are going to be too late at BHX the way its going, with MAD just announced by spanair, and RYR able to chop and change routes whenever, its going to be a hard graft but I think if they offer price, consistency and schedule, on new city routes, they could easily trump RYR.
With Lufty at the controls and a new managing director, hopefully now WW will have a chance at succeeding.
Thisng is, they are going to be too late at BHX the way its going, with MAD just announced by spanair, and RYR able to chop and change routes whenever, its going to be a hard graft but I think if they offer price, consistency and schedule, on new city routes, they could easily trump RYR.
With Lufty at the controls and a new managing director, hopefully now WW will have a chance at succeeding.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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BMI Baby
Some quotes attributed to Mr Carr re routes do seem strange and all
I can think he is using them as an illustration to keep the real destinations
quiet.
City routes are the buzz word but BHX are losing two more shortly with
Prague going in 9 days and Barcelona with no direct competition in June
unless they got wind of Spanair's plans.
They have made a total hash of the BHX April schedule with Easter upon
us and aircraft sitting around in the week despite a reduction in based
aircraft. True the aircraft work hard at weekends and from late May but Easter and May is not that bad at BHX.
I agree the points re the Med routes, ALC, AGP, MJV, PMI & FAO are
not bookable this winter - smart move with FR & ZB covering some.
The Ryanair four have almost a full schedule with BZG & OPO returning
tomorrow, PMI Tueday and Trieste operating today along with the new
Faro service. Ibiza starts in the week.
Monarch restarted Palma today, increased Larnaca and Mahon comes
on line again Tuesday. Both LPA & ACE also increase this week along
with AGP, FAO and ALC. Murcia hasd gone and Almeria reduced to weekly.
Peter
I can think he is using them as an illustration to keep the real destinations
quiet.
City routes are the buzz word but BHX are losing two more shortly with
Prague going in 9 days and Barcelona with no direct competition in June
unless they got wind of Spanair's plans.
They have made a total hash of the BHX April schedule with Easter upon
us and aircraft sitting around in the week despite a reduction in based
aircraft. True the aircraft work hard at weekends and from late May but Easter and May is not that bad at BHX.
I agree the points re the Med routes, ALC, AGP, MJV, PMI & FAO are
not bookable this winter - smart move with FR & ZB covering some.
The Ryanair four have almost a full schedule with BZG & OPO returning
tomorrow, PMI Tueday and Trieste operating today along with the new
Faro service. Ibiza starts in the week.
Monarch restarted Palma today, increased Larnaca and Mahon comes
on line again Tuesday. Both LPA & ACE also increase this week along
with AGP, FAO and ALC. Murcia hasd gone and Almeria reduced to weekly.
Peter
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Perhaps thought is being given to BMI Baby displacing DLH on the route with a product offering more aligned with that of EZY (also now competing on MAN-MUC).
Join Date: Sep 2002
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airhumberside,
I agree with you that BMI Baby replacing Lufthansa on the MUC routes would be undesirable for the reasons you state. But Mr Carr DOES mention MUC as being of interest to Baby. Either A) Mr Carr is telling big fat porkies? B) Lufthansa will condone its BMI Baby subsidiary competing with the in-house operation C) Lufthansa will give way to a BMI Baby operation which competes directly with the EZY product, or D) Mr Carr is naming MUC as a decoy (as suggested by Olton Pete) and Lufthansa will continue as before.
Which option do you consider most likely to happen (as opposed to what customers may most wish to see?).
I agree with you that BMI Baby replacing Lufthansa on the MUC routes would be undesirable for the reasons you state. But Mr Carr DOES mention MUC as being of interest to Baby. Either A) Mr Carr is telling big fat porkies? B) Lufthansa will condone its BMI Baby subsidiary competing with the in-house operation C) Lufthansa will give way to a BMI Baby operation which competes directly with the EZY product, or D) Mr Carr is naming MUC as a decoy (as suggested by Olton Pete) and Lufthansa will continue as before.
Which option do you consider most likely to happen (as opposed to what customers may most wish to see?).