BIRMINGHAM - 4
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Oh just to quash one final arguement, promise 
BHX has very little pure freight traffic because of noise abatement rules and regulations So your freight argument is irrelevant here too
This is actually irrelevent as if you look at MAN airport, all its cathay, China Airlines and Great wall cargo ops are all in daylight hours, typically from 1pm to 8pm at a push. Daylight hours dont come under scrutiny as you will see from the fact BHX handles many many Illiushins/F27's etc on priority freight charters.
Sorry, just had to get that point in
BHX has very little pure freight traffic because of noise abatement rules and regulations So your freight argument is irrelevant here too
This is actually irrelevent as if you look at MAN airport, all its cathay, China Airlines and Great wall cargo ops are all in daylight hours, typically from 1pm to 8pm at a push. Daylight hours dont come under scrutiny as you will see from the fact BHX handles many many Illiushins/F27's etc on priority freight charters.
Sorry, just had to get that point in
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Thank God for that!
Just as a musing daza, would your responses to my question be much more leveled and theoretical and less defensive had my location been 'birmingham' or 'walsall' or 'wolverhampton' etc. Seems like a lot of your responses were just 'your from MAN so keep quiet' and to skipiness 'you hate the regions so shut up'. Maybe to discuss anything BHX related in the future I should change my location to Birmingham to get less defensive responses.
Anyway, back to Air India, are they still deffinatly looking at a Euro hub? Last I heard they were going to start direct services from Delhi, as they realised a tech stop in Europe was putting them in no better place than say EK or EY with 1 stops via AUH/DXB.
If a Euro stop is still being considered, BHX should, without a doubt be the front runner in the race as it has the most to offer.
My second point, and hopefully this wont be met by the same resistance as the last point, but is it time for BHX to wein FR out?
FR's growth has stagnated, the routes are low frequency and they just dont seem to be as keen as they once were.
May be time to get the likes of baby to expand, or get jet2 in. A long shot but maybe easy?
I just think FR cause more hassle at BHX than they help.
Just as a musing daza, would your responses to my question be much more leveled and theoretical and less defensive had my location been 'birmingham' or 'walsall' or 'wolverhampton' etc. Seems like a lot of your responses were just 'your from MAN so keep quiet' and to skipiness 'you hate the regions so shut up'. Maybe to discuss anything BHX related in the future I should change my location to Birmingham to get less defensive responses.
Anyway, back to Air India, are they still deffinatly looking at a Euro hub? Last I heard they were going to start direct services from Delhi, as they realised a tech stop in Europe was putting them in no better place than say EK or EY with 1 stops via AUH/DXB.
If a Euro stop is still being considered, BHX should, without a doubt be the front runner in the race as it has the most to offer.
My second point, and hopefully this wont be met by the same resistance as the last point, but is it time for BHX to wein FR out?
FR's growth has stagnated, the routes are low frequency and they just dont seem to be as keen as they once were.
May be time to get the likes of baby to expand, or get jet2 in. A long shot but maybe easy?
I just think FR cause more hassle at BHX than they help.
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BHX runway extension
Just as a musing daza, would your responses to my question be much more leveled and theoretical and less defensive had my location been 'birmingham' or 'walsall' or 'wolverhampton' etc. Seems like a lot of your responses were just 'your from MAN so keep quiet' and to skipiness 'you hate the regions so shut up'. Maybe to discuss anything BHX related in the future I should change my location to Birmingham to get less defensive responses.
Daza
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Maybe BHX might actually get some new routes now. I pity CVT though.......
Regarding the extension, I've said before that even in rosier times, the business case was ropey at best. That case can't be any stronger now. Reading between the lines, I honestly think this refinancing deal/new facility is being hyped up to seem more than it is. BHX press releases are a bit more Ryanair-esque these days - full of bluster, short on substance. I wonder who prompted that change of direction - in his own image perhaps?
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Its plane simples
How much has BHX grown over the past 70 or so years? Or MAN, LHR etc..?
A lot! Through booms, recessions and wars.
Everyone is talking about NOW, but any business has to plan for the future.
So where will BHX be in another 70 or so years? 30 million pax? Who knows, but I would rather have the best infrastructure in place to put me in good stead for the FUTURE. Same applies to MAN 2nd runway.
The proposed runway extension has been going on for years, at least 20! Back then Qantas even offered to chip in to extend it but as usual it was put back on the shelf.
If the money and backing is finally there then build it ONCE AND FOR ALL. Airlines will always come and go.
Did BHX have these sceptics when they were planning to build runway 33/15? '
Ooh gosh another runway? whats wrong with 06/24?'
Anyway another point which I dont think anyone has touched on-
BHXs runway is currently operating with reduced RESAs. They have special dispensation from the CAA to operate like this and have for some time. Now with a certain BA 777 'glider' landing at LHR 2yrs ago, this privilage I fear may come to an end! With insufficient space to extend the run offs at either end, BHX will have no option but to reduce the actual runway length it already has by a couple of hundred metres.
This is another reason for pressing ahead with the runway extension.
btw BHX-CUN via MAN. so many frustrated pax on this flight, all because of insufficient runway length. If you think the extension is not needed then book yourself on this! 14hrs on board in total!
A lot! Through booms, recessions and wars.
Everyone is talking about NOW, but any business has to plan for the future.
So where will BHX be in another 70 or so years? 30 million pax? Who knows, but I would rather have the best infrastructure in place to put me in good stead for the FUTURE. Same applies to MAN 2nd runway.
The proposed runway extension has been going on for years, at least 20! Back then Qantas even offered to chip in to extend it but as usual it was put back on the shelf.
If the money and backing is finally there then build it ONCE AND FOR ALL. Airlines will always come and go.
Did BHX have these sceptics when they were planning to build runway 33/15? '
Ooh gosh another runway? whats wrong with 06/24?'
Anyway another point which I dont think anyone has touched on-
BHXs runway is currently operating with reduced RESAs. They have special dispensation from the CAA to operate like this and have for some time. Now with a certain BA 777 'glider' landing at LHR 2yrs ago, this privilage I fear may come to an end! With insufficient space to extend the run offs at either end, BHX will have no option but to reduce the actual runway length it already has by a couple of hundred metres.
This is another reason for pressing ahead with the runway extension.btw BHX-CUN via MAN. so many frustrated pax on this flight, all because of insufficient runway length. If you think the extension is not needed then book yourself on this! 14hrs on board in total!
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Well said. But the best time to expand is from a strong trading position. Staff and the wider public were crying out for the board and management to seize the moment. For years, BHX had an extremely strong trading position, but the opportunity was missed. As much as I would like to, I can't blame the majority of the current regime for that.
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Runway/Air India/Ryanair/Baby/easy
wanna_be_there
Air India - The only fact I know is that the Air India CEO was met
by PK last Saturday at BHX.
The rest seem to be rumours with the popular one that it was not a discussion just about BHX-ATQ but to look at the facilities to cope with 4 or 5 arrivals at a time.
It was stated in the Indian press that AI were going to concentrate on Delhi
non-stops from the new Terminal (Three I think) and again today an article was posted on another forum about an alleged huge deal AI have done with Delhi to increase flights once the terminal is opened (Not just long-haul). Neither article actually stated that the hub idea was shelved.
Any comments on if BHX could cope with 4 77W's in at the same time?
Ryanair BHX was fairly desparate at the time Ryanair announced
its base and when comparing what we had before to what we have now it does not look that good.
I think the summer they started baby had 7 based it is now three and
soon to be two. Whether this is down to Ryanair or internal problems
at baby is open to debate. Baby have abandoned some routes and
reduced others where FR compete but not a total climb-down.
Part of Baby's problems were with EDI & GLA and that had nothing to
do with FR it just a shame that they did not feel it appropriate to
start other routes but they saw an opportunity at East Mids and
returning aircraft after their "expensive" leases expired.
If they could get more aircraft then there is still hope at bhx. Their
brand is still fairly strong, their aircraft mainly full and their fares
seem to have increased in addition to their add-ons charges.
easyjet despite their current difficulties would be welcome and
I don't think it is any secret that it is not for the want of trying.
Runway
The only thing I want to add and it is probably stating the obvious
but there was probably more a case that could have made 10 years
ago or even before that but that is history now.
On a positive note Iceland Express start their short season of
flights tomorrow with their weekend base until September.
BA return tomorrow with IT flights to Palma and Thomson
add flights tonight and tomorrow. Monarch have already
started all their short season regulars. A few Turkey flights
have been lost though due to Goldtrail.
Pete
Air India - The only fact I know is that the Air India CEO was met
by PK last Saturday at BHX.
The rest seem to be rumours with the popular one that it was not a discussion just about BHX-ATQ but to look at the facilities to cope with 4 or 5 arrivals at a time.
It was stated in the Indian press that AI were going to concentrate on Delhi
non-stops from the new Terminal (Three I think) and again today an article was posted on another forum about an alleged huge deal AI have done with Delhi to increase flights once the terminal is opened (Not just long-haul). Neither article actually stated that the hub idea was shelved.
Any comments on if BHX could cope with 4 77W's in at the same time?
Ryanair BHX was fairly desparate at the time Ryanair announced
its base and when comparing what we had before to what we have now it does not look that good.
I think the summer they started baby had 7 based it is now three and
soon to be two. Whether this is down to Ryanair or internal problems
at baby is open to debate. Baby have abandoned some routes and
reduced others where FR compete but not a total climb-down.
Part of Baby's problems were with EDI & GLA and that had nothing to
do with FR it just a shame that they did not feel it appropriate to
start other routes but they saw an opportunity at East Mids and
returning aircraft after their "expensive" leases expired.
If they could get more aircraft then there is still hope at bhx. Their
brand is still fairly strong, their aircraft mainly full and their fares
seem to have increased in addition to their add-ons charges.
easyjet despite their current difficulties would be welcome and
I don't think it is any secret that it is not for the want of trying.
Runway
The only thing I want to add and it is probably stating the obvious
but there was probably more a case that could have made 10 years
ago or even before that but that is history now.
On a positive note Iceland Express start their short season of
flights tomorrow with their weekend base until September.
BA return tomorrow with IT flights to Palma and Thomson
add flights tonight and tomorrow. Monarch have already
started all their short season regulars. A few Turkey flights
have been lost though due to Goldtrail.
Pete
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AI's possible hub
OltonPete, while you concisely state what the current situation is regards AI, there is one major point I do not understand.
Not too long ago BHX and, I assume PK, sought major publicity on a 20,000 signature petition calling for the re-introduction of services to India. Clearly BHX sought the support of the media in this, both news and TV, to highlight this cause.
Why then should BHX slam the door shut on publicity when the CEO of Air India, and I am led to believe the prime minister as well, pay a personal visit to the airport. It is a long way just to go for lunch....
I am mystified by the lack of information about this visit. Having some knowledge of the media (45 years) I would have thought the oxygen of publicity following this visit would have been valuable in the airport's aim of restoring direct flights to India.
In my mind surely the fact that the CEO and prime minister had paid a visit to the airport was a newsworthy fact in itself.
Is the silence for a reason?? perhaps it is only time that will tell.
Not too long ago BHX and, I assume PK, sought major publicity on a 20,000 signature petition calling for the re-introduction of services to India. Clearly BHX sought the support of the media in this, both news and TV, to highlight this cause.
Why then should BHX slam the door shut on publicity when the CEO of Air India, and I am led to believe the prime minister as well, pay a personal visit to the airport. It is a long way just to go for lunch....
I am mystified by the lack of information about this visit. Having some knowledge of the media (45 years) I would have thought the oxygen of publicity following this visit would have been valuable in the airport's aim of restoring direct flights to India.
In my mind surely the fact that the CEO and prime minister had paid a visit to the airport was a newsworthy fact in itself.
Is the silence for a reason?? perhaps it is only time that will tell.
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Air India
Monty Gordo
I can only think it is for commercial sensitivity reasons.
Say AI had already visited Dublin or Madrid and they
believed that the BHX was a second contact/visit Dublin
might then jump in and make a lower offer re fees and charges
or it could even alert a new competitor to try and muscle in.
The only thing that lets that down is that AI have been
clear in the past that they are/were looking for a hub
and that most airports keep tabs on there forums and Dublin
would be well aware of this visit within hours.
Also AI might not want the information made public although
in this day and age it is nigh on impossible. High stakes
though for airports like BHX (decreasing pax) and Dublin
with a new terminal coming online.
Mind you if this opens you will see that the Delhi mega-hub
plan is in the open and discount charges are mentioned.
Delhi airport, Air India close to mega deal
I just assumed the BHX talks were for a direct BHX-ATQ route as the mounting press articles seem to indicate that the hub idea was on ice.
Pete
Pete
I can only think it is for commercial sensitivity reasons.
Say AI had already visited Dublin or Madrid and they
believed that the BHX was a second contact/visit Dublin
might then jump in and make a lower offer re fees and charges
or it could even alert a new competitor to try and muscle in.
The only thing that lets that down is that AI have been
clear in the past that they are/were looking for a hub
and that most airports keep tabs on there forums and Dublin
would be well aware of this visit within hours.
Also AI might not want the information made public although
in this day and age it is nigh on impossible. High stakes
though for airports like BHX (decreasing pax) and Dublin
with a new terminal coming online.
Mind you if this opens you will see that the Delhi mega-hub
plan is in the open and discount charges are mentioned.
Delhi airport, Air India close to mega deal
I just assumed the BHX talks were for a direct BHX-ATQ route as the mounting press articles seem to indicate that the hub idea was on ice.
Pete
Pete
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Air India have been in Dublin Airport twice since they announced they were looking for a new european hub.
Air India senior management team were in Dublin last February and June and they sent technical evaluation team in March.
AI are also in talks with Aer Lingus about connecting flights to Europe.
Air India senior management team were in Dublin last February and June and they sent technical evaluation team in March.
AI are also in talks with Aer Lingus about connecting flights to Europe.
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Sheeesh!!! I take a day off and all hell breaks lose.....Seems the argument has run it's course so nothing to add to the AI argument/discussion.
The runway extension is part of the business plan to 2020 so discussing business cases in todays climate is a bit pointless....best build in a recession when the labour etc is cheap than hang on for the recovery and pay more......
I agree with comments about the marketing manager going to Cov. He was really hamstrung by successive managements and then had someone brought in over his head.......Good luck to him at CVT.
The runway extension is part of the business plan to 2020 so discussing business cases in todays climate is a bit pointless....best build in a recession when the labour etc is cheap than hang on for the recovery and pay more......
I agree with comments about the marketing manager going to Cov. He was really hamstrung by successive managements and then had someone brought in over his head.......Good luck to him at CVT.
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Air India will focus on DEL as a hub and will fly DEL-ORD B77L nonstop next winter. DEL-JFK will increase to B77W.
BOM-FRA-ORD and BOM-JFK will be cancelled.
Air India W10 Long-Haul Operation Changes: Update 1 AIRLINE ROUTE
Do they need a hub in Europe or is DEL their hub?
BOM-FRA-ORD and BOM-JFK will be cancelled.
Air India W10 Long-Haul Operation Changes: Update 1 AIRLINE ROUTE
Do they need a hub in Europe or is DEL their hub?
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Air India
Hi Seljuk22
Yes I saw this posted on another forum this afternoon, stating it
was actually information sourced from GDS.
I would have expected ORD to have been one of the US destinations
from the hub along with YYZ or EWR or JFK or possibly IAD.
The above certainly fits in with recent press articles, which begs the question
what was the point of the BHX visit last week. Of course nothing
stopping the Delhi flights from being direct and the one-stop flights via
Europe from Amritsar, Mumbai etc. Although I believe BOM-JFK is via DEL.
As long as BHX gets an Amritsar at least, however it would be a bitter
pill to swallow if there is nothing at the end of all this.
Pete
Yes I saw this posted on another forum this afternoon, stating it
was actually information sourced from GDS.
I would have expected ORD to have been one of the US destinations
from the hub along with YYZ or EWR or JFK or possibly IAD.
The above certainly fits in with recent press articles, which begs the question
what was the point of the BHX visit last week. Of course nothing
stopping the Delhi flights from being direct and the one-stop flights via
Europe from Amritsar, Mumbai etc. Although I believe BOM-JFK is via DEL.
As long as BHX gets an Amritsar at least, however it would be a bitter
pill to swallow if there is nothing at the end of all this.
Pete
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Pete, it's always going to be that way, seeing what crumbs the regionals pick up. To that end, what Skipness says about the 787 on the Bristol thread is right...I just cannot see a ramp up services happening. What's needed is a mindset change from airlines to get people to use their services into the regions by proactive marketing so that expanding demand ex-LHR/LGW catchment can take it without resorting to adding frequency and so make sure that a regional route does not happen in the short-to-medium term. If they want to charge a premium so be it, but make up for it in terms of the frequent flyer programmes so that it's easier to rack miles up for choosing the regional option.
I'd love to see more routes from the regions to the States following AA/BA's granting of ATI but it seems more likely that they want to have more secondary routes from the States into LHR and not from the secondarys in the UK to AA hubs. I'd have thought very simplistically expanding regional UK to the US = fewer passengers on the shuttles = few shuttle services needed = expanding regional US to LHR. But with BHX not having any, one would hope the enticement of local flying with active BA marketing of any BHX route should make a route more feasible.
I'd love to see more routes from the regions to the States following AA/BA's granting of ATI but it seems more likely that they want to have more secondary routes from the States into LHR and not from the secondarys in the UK to AA hubs. I'd have thought very simplistically expanding regional UK to the US = fewer passengers on the shuttles = few shuttle services needed = expanding regional US to LHR. But with BHX not having any, one would hope the enticement of local flying with active BA marketing of any BHX route should make a route more feasible.
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AI....again......
Fact has it that AI have cancelled the ATQ-LHR-YYZ route for winter, rumour has it that based on the AI CEO recent visit to BHX there will be a 5 times a week BHX-ATQ using a 773. Pie in the sky or a big boost for BHX we will see.....
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Fact has it that AI have cancelled the ATQ-LHR-YYZ route for winter, rumour has it that based on the AI CEO recent visit to BHX there will be a 5 times a week BHX-ATQ using a 773
I dont know, as AI have announced DEL-YYZ non stop upon cessation of the ATQ-LHR-YYZ service, similar to the way FRA has lost services in the wake of its USA flights stopping.
I dont know, as AI have announced DEL-YYZ non stop upon cessation of the ATQ-LHR-YYZ service, similar to the way FRA has lost services in the wake of its USA flights stopping.
AI CEO in BHX
There could be 101 reasons why the AI CEO was in BHX. Visiting relatives, having a meal in his favourite restaurant in the Balti Triangle...or even having a meeting with the BHX marketing team!
There are certainly plenty of candidates for relatives near BHX, and there are certainly some of the best Indian resturants outside of the sub continent to be found in Birmingham; but my bet would be that a meeting at BHX would be the most likely reason for visiting, and he's hardly likely to have trekked all the way to BHX to have a meeting with their LHR handling agent!
Hopefully good news might be forthcoming reasonably soon!
There are certainly plenty of candidates for relatives near BHX, and there are certainly some of the best Indian resturants outside of the sub continent to be found in Birmingham; but my bet would be that a meeting at BHX would be the most likely reason for visiting, and he's hardly likely to have trekked all the way to BHX to have a meeting with their LHR handling agent!
Hopefully good news might be forthcoming reasonably soon!
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Best Airport????
Birmingham Mail - News - Birmingham News - Birmingham Airport named best in the UK
Reported in the Birmingham Mail.
Yo have to laugh at these polls - sample just over 2300.
I suppose they are only reporting what was stated but
where was EDI - it can't be that bad.
Pete
Reported in the Birmingham Mail.
Yo have to laugh at these polls - sample just over 2300.
I suppose they are only reporting what was stated but
where was EDI - it can't be that bad.
Pete