CORK - 5
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Jack1985, I can't see routes like DUB CPH which is going head to head with SK and DM, DUB BOD and DUB ARN doing significantly better than ORK BCN or ORK FCO.
I'll accept that the people of Cork are stone broke when I see them going back to Crosshaven and Youghal for their holidays but the reality is that bus loads of them are leaving for Dublin throughout the day on the so called Air Coach.
Part of the problem is the lack of choice from Cork with the same boring old routes being offered year although Brussels being retained should help this winter. Many people also complain about the significant fare differential between Dublin and Cork particularly if booked near the date of travel.
I'll accept that the people of Cork are stone broke when I see them going back to Crosshaven and Youghal for their holidays but the reality is that bus loads of them are leaving for Dublin throughout the day on the so called Air Coach.
Part of the problem is the lack of choice from Cork with the same boring old routes being offered year although Brussels being retained should help this winter. Many people also complain about the significant fare differential between Dublin and Cork particularly if booked near the date of travel.
Last edited by ryan2000; 6th Jul 2012 at 15:47.
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Jack1985, I can't see routes like DUB CPH which is going head to head with SK and DM, DUB BOD and DUB ARN doing significantly better than ORK BCN or ORK FCO.
Part of the problem is the lack of choice from Cork with the same boring old routes being offered
Many people also complain about the significant fare differential between Dublin and Cork particularly if booked near the date of travel.
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I don't accept that everyone in Cork is broke. I would accept that people are being more careful with money, more disposable income is lost in taxes and levies, but there are very many well paid jobs in the Cork area, both in the public and private sectors. What we have seen is a tightening of credit, fewer personal loans and so on, so getting away is that much harder, don't get me wrong more people than before are struggling, but more people are generally being more sensible with money too.
ORK reflects the macro economy as a whole, Flights to UK and Hubs are going from strength to strength - because that's where graduates are going for jobs. This also explains why the "same old bucket and spade" routes are the predominant offering at ORK, because those more likely to go "interesting" places are gone and their friends/family are more likely to visit the diospora than spend a weekend in Madrid, Copenhagen, Oslo, etc.
ORK reflects the macro economy as a whole, Flights to UK and Hubs are going from strength to strength - because that's where graduates are going for jobs. This also explains why the "same old bucket and spade" routes are the predominant offering at ORK, because those more likely to go "interesting" places are gone and their friends/family are more likely to visit the diospora than spend a weekend in Madrid, Copenhagen, Oslo, etc.
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I don't accept that everyone in Cork is broke. I would accept that people are being more careful with money, more disposable income is lost in taxes and levies, but there are very many well paid jobs in the Cork area, both in the public and private sectors. What we have seen is a tightening of credit, fewer personal loans and so on, so getting away is that much harder, don't get me wrong more people than before are struggling, but more people are generally being more sensible with money too.
ORK reflects the macro economy as a whole, Flights to UK and Hubs are going from strength to strength - because that's where graduates are going for jobs. This also explains why the "same old bucket and spade" routes are the predominant offering at ORK, because those more likely to go "interesting" places are gone and their friends/family are more likely to visit the diospora than spend a weekend in Madrid, Copenhagen, Oslo, etc.
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On the topic of sun routes FR have cut many for the winter schedule from Ireland and UK in particular a major reduction on flights to caneries. AGP, FUE not released from Cork but have being reduced from DUB. LPA not released from SNN and being reduced from DUB. TFS cut from NOC. Does anybody know if there are spaces in ORK aircraft to operate FUE or AGP services or any other route have reductions for winter.
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I wonder do Aerlingus regard Cork as a genuine base or is it seen as an outpost?
Does anybody know if there are spaces in ORK aircraft to operate FUE or AGP services or any other route have reductions for winter.
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Of course Aer Lingus regard ORK as a "genuine base", it's certainly more "genuine" than the likes of LGW and BFS. Year after year ORK keeps the core routes and new or additional routes are tried, some stay, more do not.
Personally, I think Aer Lingus at ORK have their hands slightly tied by just having the ATRs and the A320 (assuming the 319s remain in Belfast for the time being). Something E190 size would probably work quite well, I think there are probably a number of routes that the A320 is too much for and the ATR is either to small or does not have enough range. We are already seeing that, to a certain extent with BHX and MAN, with the addition of 3 daily flights on certain days. Similarly out of DUB there are routes which would benefit. In particular I suspect that growth on the Regional side will be slowed by a lack of profitable places to send the ATR fleet in the mid morning, afternoon and to a lesser extent in the evening. There are only so many places you can fly in the UK and Northern France. A jet might just help, allowing EI to open up some longer, thinner routes which could depart in the second bank of flights and return in time for the evening bank of flights to the UK.
EI have clearly taken the decision that they want to keep the mainline fleet all-airbus, so maybe the need is not as acute as one would guess.
Personally, I think Aer Lingus at ORK have their hands slightly tied by just having the ATRs and the A320 (assuming the 319s remain in Belfast for the time being). Something E190 size would probably work quite well, I think there are probably a number of routes that the A320 is too much for and the ATR is either to small or does not have enough range. We are already seeing that, to a certain extent with BHX and MAN, with the addition of 3 daily flights on certain days. Similarly out of DUB there are routes which would benefit. In particular I suspect that growth on the Regional side will be slowed by a lack of profitable places to send the ATR fleet in the mid morning, afternoon and to a lesser extent in the evening. There are only so many places you can fly in the UK and Northern France. A jet might just help, allowing EI to open up some longer, thinner routes which could depart in the second bank of flights and return in time for the evening bank of flights to the UK.
EI have clearly taken the decision that they want to keep the mainline fleet all-airbus, so maybe the need is not as acute as one would guess.
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Personally, I think Aer Lingus at ORK have their hands slightly tied by just having the ATRs and the A320 (assuming the 319s remain in Belfast for the time being). Something E190 size would probably work quite well, I think there are probably a number of routes that the A320 is too much for and the ATR is either to small or does not have enough range.
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Aerlingus at Cork
Jack, the reason I question the nature of the Aerlingus base at Cork is that for several years they continued to base the pilots in Dublin and were most reluctant to move them to Cork. I'm told that the situation has changed in recent times.
While I give Aerlingus credit for their significant expansion in 2005 and 2006, they have always been much more adventurous with new routes out of Dublin. I accept that Cork has a much smaller catchment area but as against that the airline has virtually no competition to worry about down here apart from Ryanair on a few sun routes and would enjoy a monopoly on routes such as Frankfurt and Dusseldorf.
Brussels has by all accounts been a success. For years local groups lobbied for such a service but were told there was no market here for it. It's also vital that the issues that make it more costly to operate from Cork are addressed. If an upturn comes in the economy Aerlingus are in poll position to benefit from it in Cork if they can get the correct strategy in place.
While I give Aerlingus credit for their significant expansion in 2005 and 2006, they have always been much more adventurous with new routes out of Dublin. I accept that Cork has a much smaller catchment area but as against that the airline has virtually no competition to worry about down here apart from Ryanair on a few sun routes and would enjoy a monopoly on routes such as Frankfurt and Dusseldorf.
Brussels has by all accounts been a success. For years local groups lobbied for such a service but were told there was no market here for it. It's also vital that the issues that make it more costly to operate from Cork are addressed. If an upturn comes in the economy Aerlingus are in poll position to benefit from it in Cork if they can get the correct strategy in place.
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I think Aer Lingus at ORK have their hands slightly tied by just having the ATRs and the A320
and its something I believe Aer Arann need to examine again they have huge potential on their hands at the moment.
Jack, the reason I question the nature of the Aerlingus base at Cork is that for several years they continued to base the pilots in Dublin and were most reluctant to move them to Cork. I'm told that the situation has changed in recent times.
they have always been much more adventurous with new routes out of Dublin.
monopoly on routes such as Frankfurt and Dusseldorf.
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Another load of CRJ900s came on the market today as it seems Pluna, in Uruguay, have ceased operations and it is hard to see Air Canada or it's subsidaries being able to absorb them all. I should say a few could be wet leased fairly easily on reasonable enough rates if EI were interested in a small sub fleet to try out even more new routes from Dublin or try some more established unserved destinations from Cork. Are there a few bits of the CRJ900 airframe made in Northern Ireland at Bombardier facilities there - if so, it would also help to further cement the peace process as well - not that the Belfast base, be it Aldergrove or City, is not all ready doing that with the A319s etc.
Good question about Aer Lingus self sufficiency at Cork. Is Aer Lingus now wholly self sufficient with flight crew at Cork? When you think about it and the years of crews being driven around from top hotels to the airport in chaffeur driven limos - sure that cost alone must have put the costs of a Cork operation through the roof or even sky high - not to mention how it used to massage the egos of the EI sky gods!
I am beginning to consider that the UK, and in the Cork terms, that generally means Heathrow will have had it's day soon when it comes to onward connections for Cork passengers with the high cost of the UK Airport Departure Taxes on long haul routes. It might go some way to explain why it seems that both Etihad and Emirates are apparently doing so well from Dublin - between them the Abu Dhabi and Dubai based airlines have Asia, the Indian sub continent, the Far East and Australasia pretty much covered and there has got to be good savings made there by Cork and Irish cost conscious long haul travellers especially now that there seems to be so many of our so called brightest and finest emigrating live on the hoof to the far flung destinations where we hear the top jobs are now available.
Bearing in mind the above I just cant understand why there seems to have been so little action by Cork Airport on the above kind of near east/mid east route from Cork - if Dublin can absorb Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Istanbul all on a daily basis it beats me why a destination like Istanbul or say, even, Doha, could not work from Cork on say, two to three times a week?
Then again, it might not suit the current operator of Cork Airport, the Dublin Airport Authority, for Cork to have any new routes at all? After all, how many folk do we in Cork all know whom are now happy to throw in the towel and get on the Air Coach or get into the car and drive to Dublin to get a lower priced flight than you would at Cork for even the few destinations that Cork has in common with Dublin?
Yet again, Cork is so up against it in lots of ways - seasonality & reduced winter schedules, DAA's Fortress Dublin and the filling of the New Taj Mahal Collinstown and her many airbridges, the threat of Ducksie the Scarecrow scaring away maybe forever any chance of real competition.
What does Cork try to do to steer itself away from the above sort of predicament?
It puts a black Audi Q3 car in the new terminal near arrivals!
Now, that's genius!
Good question about Aer Lingus self sufficiency at Cork. Is Aer Lingus now wholly self sufficient with flight crew at Cork? When you think about it and the years of crews being driven around from top hotels to the airport in chaffeur driven limos - sure that cost alone must have put the costs of a Cork operation through the roof or even sky high - not to mention how it used to massage the egos of the EI sky gods!
I am beginning to consider that the UK, and in the Cork terms, that generally means Heathrow will have had it's day soon when it comes to onward connections for Cork passengers with the high cost of the UK Airport Departure Taxes on long haul routes. It might go some way to explain why it seems that both Etihad and Emirates are apparently doing so well from Dublin - between them the Abu Dhabi and Dubai based airlines have Asia, the Indian sub continent, the Far East and Australasia pretty much covered and there has got to be good savings made there by Cork and Irish cost conscious long haul travellers especially now that there seems to be so many of our so called brightest and finest emigrating live on the hoof to the far flung destinations where we hear the top jobs are now available.
Bearing in mind the above I just cant understand why there seems to have been so little action by Cork Airport on the above kind of near east/mid east route from Cork - if Dublin can absorb Abu Dhabi, Dubai and Istanbul all on a daily basis it beats me why a destination like Istanbul or say, even, Doha, could not work from Cork on say, two to three times a week?
Then again, it might not suit the current operator of Cork Airport, the Dublin Airport Authority, for Cork to have any new routes at all? After all, how many folk do we in Cork all know whom are now happy to throw in the towel and get on the Air Coach or get into the car and drive to Dublin to get a lower priced flight than you would at Cork for even the few destinations that Cork has in common with Dublin?
Yet again, Cork is so up against it in lots of ways - seasonality & reduced winter schedules, DAA's Fortress Dublin and the filling of the New Taj Mahal Collinstown and her many airbridges, the threat of Ducksie the Scarecrow scaring away maybe forever any chance of real competition.
What does Cork try to do to steer itself away from the above sort of predicament?
It puts a black Audi Q3 car in the new terminal near arrivals!
Now, that's genius!
Last edited by Tom the Tenor; 6th Jul 2012 at 23:53.
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my 6c worth.
I came back yesterday via BRU - 90%+ full I'd say. Good handling in BRU, except for a delay because of rabbits on the runway!!
Got to ORK at about 15.20. LONG walk to passport check, I don't mind stretching my legs but I came across several families with kids.... not so obvious for them....
Out to the car park, over the hills and far away - no direct pathway - got to the payplace in goes the card and the cc - €98!! from June 25 to July 6...... typical holiday duration..... Then get to the barrier, card unreadable...... press the button, long wait... how much did you pay? another wait and then the barrier opens, no communication..... Ripoff pricing for a 'bit of a field' the CAA surfaced....
Down to collect Madame with the luggage (how the f do you get a trolley to the long term carpark??) In the outer dropoff - full of cars in the drivethrough because 50% is railed off for minibus pickups from outlying carparks, competitors??
My point? A brand new airport building not fit for purpose..... no wonder people take the bus to Dublin, it may not be better but your at the door.....
I live in West Cork, ORK is the only airport convenient (getting to EINN is a nightmare, I have to do that regularly.) The options from ORK are ok, but make it more attractive, pricewise and otherwise.
I came back yesterday via BRU - 90%+ full I'd say. Good handling in BRU, except for a delay because of rabbits on the runway!!
Got to ORK at about 15.20. LONG walk to passport check, I don't mind stretching my legs but I came across several families with kids.... not so obvious for them....
Out to the car park, over the hills and far away - no direct pathway - got to the payplace in goes the card and the cc - €98!! from June 25 to July 6...... typical holiday duration..... Then get to the barrier, card unreadable...... press the button, long wait... how much did you pay? another wait and then the barrier opens, no communication..... Ripoff pricing for a 'bit of a field' the CAA surfaced....
Down to collect Madame with the luggage (how the f do you get a trolley to the long term carpark??) In the outer dropoff - full of cars in the drivethrough because 50% is railed off for minibus pickups from outlying carparks, competitors??
My point? A brand new airport building not fit for purpose..... no wonder people take the bus to Dublin, it may not be better but your at the door.....
I live in West Cork, ORK is the only airport convenient (getting to EINN is a nightmare, I have to do that regularly.) The options from ORK are ok, but make it more attractive, pricewise and otherwise.
Last edited by barrymah; 7th Jul 2012 at 08:58.
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Not really sure how LONG a walk it could really be from the aircraft to passport control. EI usually parks at Gates 3,4,5 or 6 occasionally 7 or 8 are used, even then I would not describe the walks as LONG. There is more changing of levels than would be ideal, but no especially long walks. Im thinking of walks from Pier D in Dublin, the green mile in LHR, AMS in general - walks are much, much longer. Mind you none of those walks are in the pouring rain....
Tom, airlines from the Middle East tend to prefer daily, or near daily, flights as it improves connectivity. Im not sure that Cork could support daily widebody flights, even with all the onward connectivity. I don't think any airport of comparable catchment supports such a flight, especially as these airlines want to retire A330s and move to larger 777 variants. Lord God, it would seem that we can't support a daily CRJ/ERJ to FRA, let alone a daily 77W to DXB!
As for those Pluna CRJ-1000's, who would EI "wet lease" them from? The bankrupt Pluna, Chorus Aviation? Would jets of this size not need to be operated by EI mainline?
Tom, airlines from the Middle East tend to prefer daily, or near daily, flights as it improves connectivity. Im not sure that Cork could support daily widebody flights, even with all the onward connectivity. I don't think any airport of comparable catchment supports such a flight, especially as these airlines want to retire A330s and move to larger 777 variants. Lord God, it would seem that we can't support a daily CRJ/ERJ to FRA, let alone a daily 77W to DXB!
As for those Pluna CRJ-1000's, who would EI "wet lease" them from? The bankrupt Pluna, Chorus Aviation? Would jets of this size not need to be operated by EI mainline?
Last edited by brian_dromey; 7th Jul 2012 at 09:12.
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The drop off space has become a bit of a joke. Time to consider moving some of the coach activity to the long-stay car park in front of the old terminal; it's only just through the tunnel and much closer than the equivalent area in Dublin. That said the Bus Eireann and Citylink bus services should stay in front of the terminal (a timetable for the Kinsale-bound buses might be handy too; most people probably don't even realise there's a direct bus service...).
An alternative could be to reduce the queuing area for taxis. They all have to queue up by the hotel anyway, so there's no need to reserve so much space in front of the terminal. It made sense when all queuing taxis could be accommodated there, but once the overflow area was created, there was no longer any need.
Regarding Aer Lingus going to 4 in Winter, if it happens, it's most sensible 2 A320s and 2 A319s. Some of the existing routes are a bit thin in Winter. Also, moving to A319 operation could allow higher frequencies on some existing routes (notably Paris) and could allow some Manchester and Birmingham flights to be A319 operated (depending on the deal with Aer Arann).
An alternative could be to reduce the queuing area for taxis. They all have to queue up by the hotel anyway, so there's no need to reserve so much space in front of the terminal. It made sense when all queuing taxis could be accommodated there, but once the overflow area was created, there was no longer any need.
Regarding Aer Lingus going to 4 in Winter, if it happens, it's most sensible 2 A320s and 2 A319s. Some of the existing routes are a bit thin in Winter. Also, moving to A319 operation could allow higher frequencies on some existing routes (notably Paris) and could allow some Manchester and Birmingham flights to be A319 operated (depending on the deal with Aer Arann).
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barrymah EI846 from Brussels arrived on Stand 9 (Gate 5) yesterday witnessed it myself, not a very long walk but I suppose you did mention you had the family with you very understandable.
But Barry why didn't you take the shuttle bus with the family? its free and runs every 5 minutes to the long-term car park.
This is very far off, and wont be happening for a while.
But Barry why didn't you take the shuttle bus with the family? its free and runs every 5 minutes to the long-term car park.
Regarding Aer Lingus going to 4 in Winter,
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it beats me why a destination like Istanbul or say, even, Doha, could not work from Cork on say, two to three times a week?