CORK - 5
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Leeds, UK & Cork, Ireland
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Any experience I have had with the LHR flights have been jammers. I usually take the 725 though - being the last flight of the day it tends to be busy. The 710 tends to be very full too.
I tend to fly more often on the MAN services. Again, loads can vary from fairly light to completely packed. I suppose July/Aug would not be very business travel heavy - a significant proportion of traffic to most of teh UK routes.
I tend to fly more often on the MAN services. Again, loads can vary from fairly light to completely packed. I suppose July/Aug would not be very business travel heavy - a significant proportion of traffic to most of teh UK routes.
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ireland
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loads go up and down on LHR flights but as Brian said its the second busiest route into the country after DUB-LHR and is known for great loads. Also as Brian points out Business Travel is at its lowest at this time of year.
Join Date: Nov 1999
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UK CAA stats, 2010:
DUB-LHR 1.49m passengers
DUB-LGW 842k
DUB-STN 720k
DUB-MAN 551k
DUB-BHX 535k
ORK-LHR 395k
So it's the 6th busiest route into the Republic from Britain. Sorry...
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Once upon a time, before Ryanair came along, it was the second busiest route in and out of the country, but between Ryanair increasing to a lot of the destinations in that list and ORK-LHR not growing because of slot restrictions, it has fallen well down the list.
TBH I'm surprised that DUB-AMS isn't ahead of it. I'd have expected even DUB-CDG and DUB-JFK to be giving it a run for its money.
Now, if the statement had been that Cork-London was the 2nd busiest city pair, that would probably be correct.
TBH I'm surprised that DUB-AMS isn't ahead of it. I'd have expected even DUB-CDG and DUB-JFK to be giving it a run for its money.
Now, if the statement had been that Cork-London was the 2nd busiest city pair, that would probably be correct.
Join Date: Jun 2010
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TBH I'm surprised that DUB-AMS isn't ahead of it. I'd have expected even DUB-CDG and DUB-JFK to be giving it a run for its money.
DUB - JFK 476k
DUB - AMS 439k
Would say Jack ment UK - Ireland routes and not European but it would be the 11 bussiest route to/from Ireland in 2010 including European routes.
Join Date: Dec 2010
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I ment ORK-LON traffic being second busiest in the country. I'm starting to wonder, can anyone remember the Summer season only ORK-LHR 5th daily flight? used to be operated by a DUB based A321 and was fairly profitable why was it dropped? im thinking because of ORK-LGW or even because SNN-LHR was returned?
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I never said anything about ORK-LHR being the second busiest route! Unfortunate wording by another poster makes it look that way, when it was in fact sad by him!
The 5th daily LHR-ORK has been on/off in the past few years as has the A321 on the route. As I recall it was operated by a DUB based A321 for a few years, with the other 4 flights by ORK based A320s. There was an A321 based in Cork - around the time SNN-LHR was suspended until recently, although that ended when half the A321 fleet was retired this winter. I think since the return of SNN-LHR the fifth ORK-LHR has been used to add a fourth daily into SNN for the summer since the return of that service.
The 5th daily LHR-ORK has been on/off in the past few years as has the A321 on the route. As I recall it was operated by a DUB based A321 for a few years, with the other 4 flights by ORK based A320s. There was an A321 based in Cork - around the time SNN-LHR was suspended until recently, although that ended when half the A321 fleet was retired this winter. I think since the return of SNN-LHR the fifth ORK-LHR has been used to add a fourth daily into SNN for the summer since the return of that service.
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Brian you didnt say that sorry dont no where i came out with that one! appoligies, its a pity it isint back to 5daily, im thinking slot restrictions have a lot to do with that, awell as the return of SNN-LHR.
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@Brian. There are only three SNN-LHR slot pairs in SNN all year round. The fourth summer slot pair went when LHR slots was removed by D Mannion a few years ago. When the SNN LHR route returned the slot pairs it got were a mix of previous DUB and ORK slot pairs plus a slot pair previously leased to another airline. - BA I think. BFS kept the slots they were originally allocated ie the original SNN LHR slots minus the fourth summer slot. That went back into the DUB mix. Wow lots of slots and pairs mentioned there. Hope I made some sense of the above.
Join Date: Oct 2005
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I understand you! I suppose it is a case of EI maximizing their resources at LHR. What I forgot to mention was that ORK-LGW is a new service for EI as well, and makes up for the capacity lost, in terms of seats anyway.
Originally the LGW-ORK was a 2 daily service, but the early morning departure didn't survive too long. I wonder if it was a case of EI going in too heavy, too soon? Interesting that the evening service survived in preference to the morning one, I would have thought an early service into Cork and out of London would have been useful?
Originally the LGW-ORK was a 2 daily service, but the early morning departure didn't survive too long. I wonder if it was a case of EI going in too heavy, too soon? Interesting that the evening service survived in preference to the morning one, I would have thought an early service into Cork and out of London would have been useful?
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I'd tend to agree there.
The fist London morning flight means you can just about get to a meeting in London for 10 o'clock, but you wouldn't want to go arranging one for then.
A 6:30 departure to Stansted or Gatwick should be a winner if either Ryanair or Aer Lingus wanted to put it in place. Heathrow would obviously be ideal, but where are you going to get a slot to operate into Heathrow at that hour?
The fist London morning flight means you can just about get to a meeting in London for 10 o'clock, but you wouldn't want to go arranging one for then.
A 6:30 departure to Stansted or Gatwick should be a winner if either Ryanair or Aer Lingus wanted to put it in place. Heathrow would obviously be ideal, but where are you going to get a slot to operate into Heathrow at that hour?
Join Date: Apr 2008
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Interestingly, the EI LGW-SNN-LGW early morning rotation is being pulled after less than six months due to abysmal loadings. There is clearly no market for an additional early morning departure to south west Ireland and only a muted need for a fairly early morning departure to LGW. The need to be up before dawn and then have to make your way in to town during rush hour from Gatwick rather pushes one towards the slighter later LHR turns.
Not surprised that the evening LGW-ORK service has survived – much more useful timings for both business and leisure. There were tentative plans to reschedule the LGW/SNN service (to complement the lunchtime FR rotation on the same route) but EI appear to have lost interest and just pulled the route completely, which is a real shame as there is definitely the need going by the full occupancy and prices of the single FR rotation.
Not surprised that the evening LGW-ORK service has survived – much more useful timings for both business and leisure. There were tentative plans to reschedule the LGW/SNN service (to complement the lunchtime FR rotation on the same route) but EI appear to have lost interest and just pulled the route completely, which is a real shame as there is definitely the need going by the full occupancy and prices of the single FR rotation.
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I'm not sure you can use success or otherwise at Shannon to ascertain success at Cork. Aer Lingus have also pulled Paris and Glasgow from Shannon, yet those routes work comfortably well from Cork. Indeed I wouldn't be surprised if ORK-CDG was one of their highest yielding short haul routes.
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840 I don't disagree with you but my point is about timings and demand not route comparison. Routes with demand will still fail if the timings are completely wrong as evidenced by LGW-SNN 0650 departure.
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I suppose with respect to Gatwick, what I would say is that I don't think it can really handle three rotations a day, so the early morning departure only becomes feasible if one airline or the other pulls off the route.
I don't think the early morning departures issue is as much of a problem in Cork as at Shannon. Cork has about 225,000 people living within 10km of the airport. For Shannon, the figure is closer to a 10th of that. Even if you go out to 30km, you wouldn't reach the figure. The further someone has to travel, the worse an early departure is.
I don't think the early morning departures issue is as much of a problem in Cork as at Shannon. Cork has about 225,000 people living within 10km of the airport. For Shannon, the figure is closer to a 10th of that. Even if you go out to 30km, you wouldn't reach the figure. The further someone has to travel, the worse an early departure is.
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Amsterdam would be a higher yield than Paris out of Cork, purely by the the capacity offered. Morning and evening flights 6 days a week and once the other day as opposed to daily CDG. The population for Cork in the recent census was in excess 500,000, don't know what the Shnn /Limerick figures are.
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I should probably have said yield per passenger rather than yield.
The catchments of Cork and Shannon are fairly similar in population. Cork is maybe slightly larger, but there's not a huge amount in it.
What's different in Cork is the number of people who live very close to the airport. Cork's catchment includes some densely populated areas around the city and some sparsely populated areas in West Cork and South Kerry. Shannon's is more uniformly spread.
A 20 minute travel time includes the whole of the city, Carrigaline, Glanmire, Ballincollig etc. and also the rural area down towards Kinsale.
On the other hand, in 20 minutes from Shannin, you're only just hitting the outer suburbs of Limerick.
While the overall catchment can indicate demand for flights in general, the lower the time spent traveling to the airport, the more likely someone is to be happy with an early morning flight.
The catchments of Cork and Shannon are fairly similar in population. Cork is maybe slightly larger, but there's not a huge amount in it.
What's different in Cork is the number of people who live very close to the airport. Cork's catchment includes some densely populated areas around the city and some sparsely populated areas in West Cork and South Kerry. Shannon's is more uniformly spread.
A 20 minute travel time includes the whole of the city, Carrigaline, Glanmire, Ballincollig etc. and also the rural area down towards Kinsale.
On the other hand, in 20 minutes from Shannin, you're only just hitting the outer suburbs of Limerick.
While the overall catchment can indicate demand for flights in general, the lower the time spent traveling to the airport, the more likely someone is to be happy with an early morning flight.
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That's a good point 840. The AMS is at a fairly ungodly hour (0620 or 0640, from memory) and that seems to do OK. Then again, the markets would be slightly different.
I think very early services into ORK struggle, as much of the demand is said to be in the opposite direction i.e. TO London, FROM Cork. It might be that the route would work better if an ORK based aircraft was used, rather than the LGW based aircraft, at the time.
I think very early services into ORK struggle, as much of the demand is said to be in the opposite direction i.e. TO London, FROM Cork. It might be that the route would work better if an ORK based aircraft was used, rather than the LGW based aircraft, at the time.