CORK - 5

[840]

You're going to have huge issues about what languages to put up anyway.

Irish is a legal requirement.

I don't have statistics on it, but I suspect that in terms of first languages of people using the airport, it probably goes

1) English
2) Polish
3) German
4) One of French, Dutch or Spanish.

So on that basis French isn't going to get in anyway. Although there's probably some kind of argument in its favour because it's a much more widely understood second language than Polish or German.

[barrymah]

With due respect, I am not missing the point, I think you are misreading my post - I said ONLY Spanish and Catalan..... Cork has, afaics, only English & Irish, I suspect Barcelona has English as well as other (local) languages...... That is my point.

Not much point in pursuing this, my 6c worth, some posters cannot see the larger picture.

[Jack1985]

Possible FR route today?

I havent heard anything about this and this is purley my own speculation but i was thinking could FR be about to announce a ORK-MAN route? its been known for some time that LPL, MAN markets from ORK dont affect each other like NOC does. LPL is still not bookable, and ive heard it will be reduced to a 1x daily service for this winter so that leaves capacity in the Cumbria/Lancashire market, i think a daily MAN route would be justified, but as i've said this is all my own speculation.

[EISNN]

Is the demand there for it? I would've thought that FR would need to fill their aircraft to justify the introduction of the route. Seeing as EI switched to smaller aircraft must say something and it allows them to fly twice a day and make money. So the question that the locals and business community must ask is; Speed (FR 737) vs Daily Frequency (EIR ATR). Which is most important? Just my tuppence worth.

[Jack1985]

I think there would be but only down to the fact that the current Aer Lingus Regional price are a big difference to the mainline EI flight of last Summer between ORK-MAN-ORK, but this is down to EI Regional currently having a monoply on the Midlands and Lancashire markets from Cork. And this is also supported by the fact that the MAN flights are unaffected when the double daily LPL flights on Fridays & Sundays are nearly full. The only reason Aer Lingus dropped the routes was the ORK base needed to be reduced to 3 aircraft to make it profitable last Winter (This Winter too) there was simply no spare capacity for them to operate the the BHX/MAN routes as CDG was introduced as a W route for SNN this summer too (All based EI aircraft operating at max capacity), infact the BHX/MAN flights where improving in performance (loads) over last Summer, the statistics of this are available at the British CAA website. But as i've said ive heard nothing about this at all and it simply clicked in my mind this morning after i spotted the conference was called in MAN for the new FR base which is being announced as we speak.

[Jamie2k9]

As soon as the MAN rumour started ORK - LPL was taken off, it was bookable.

[Jack1985]

Thats what im thinking too Jamie, ive a feeling theres going to be a ORK-MAN.

[Jamie2k9]

FR announce a base and a few weeks lather they add a few more.

[Jack1985]

Fingers crossed that NOC & ORK are announced, just to let people know as im sure it will show in the statistics by the CAA the extra ORK-STN flights have been operating i would say at 70%+ LF's its been known for some time now the FR have wanted to increase the STN flights back the their 2007 levels for 3x Daily Monday to Fridays & Sundays with twice daily flights on a Saturday, but their saying it will go back to 07 levels when the ATT goes.

[Jamie2k9]

Just thinking that FR may put ORK - DUB back double daily and that could be a reason for LPL not being bookable at the minute.

Would demand be there?

[Jack1985]

Last time i used ORK-DUB was back in April for a day trip, and it was busy enough about 100 on each flight i would say but it was Easter then too so im not sure but i know its profitable alright because FR aren't charged anything by the CAA.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Jack1985

Last time i used ORK-DUB was back in April for a day trip, and it was busy enough about 100 on each flight i would say but it was Easter then too so im not sure but i know its profitable alright because FR aren't charged anything by the CAA.

Jack: 100 people on a Ryanair aircraft is a load factor of about 53% which is not "busy enough", it's utterly pathetic by Ryanair standards. Your assertion that "I know its profitable because FR aren't charged anything by the CAA" is nonsense, even if it's true that CAA aren't charging FR. It should be obvious that Cork Airport charges are just one part of the total operating costs for the route. Unless you know what the average yield is (I'm pretty certain you don't), you have no idea whether it's profitable or not.

But then again, for Ryanair, ORK-DUB (and KIR-DUB) was always more about "let's stick it to Aer Arann" than "let's make money"...

[Jack1985]

You acctually believe that the CAA are going to bother charging FR for the ORK-DUB-ORK route? after FR threatend there was no need for a ORK base if they where charged for the route which would make it unprofitable. Also 53% on an inter-city 50min flight is well profitable, MOL said that when he reduced it to a Daily Return trip he wanted a profitable route, he said that In Dec of Last year when it was reduced in reaction to DAA increases. I dont whale on with bull****, its a fact that FR werent charged anything on the CAA side since RE left the route. If you go now and try to book an FR ORK-DUB-ORK flight you will notice there are no taxes, unless the flight is last minute of which the taxes are soley the DAA's, for example if FR arent paying any tax on the route and they're absorbing the ATT for the route and charging us €30 for a return flight to Dublin including Speedy Boarding/Check In (My Price in April 2011) i would think theres significant yields there in FR terms.

[brian_dromey]

I don't agree with much of what you said there, to be honest. It's completely pointless to comment on yields/loads on a given route, on a given day as these are not necessarily indicative of profitability.

It not a case of the CAA being 'bothered' to charge FR for the DUB flight. What difference is the arrival of a flight to/from DUB than LGW, STN, FAO, LPA, etc?

[840]

How much fuel do you think gets used? How much do you think it costs to employ 2 pilots and 4 cabin crew?

There is no way an average 30 quid return fare for 100 passengers could pay that bill, regardless of scratchcard sales.

[fivejuliet]

Sorry Jack but aviation is costly business! Many of Ryanair's fares, particularly those on DUB-ORK don't reflect it.

[Jack1985]

Fine trying to argue to point of which is true with you guys is pointless! fair enough i didnt take into account crew in that, but this is the facts.

The CAA arent bothered to charge the DUB route for these reasons;

1) They want connectivity to DUB for themseleves (CAA/DAA officals travel regularly to/from DUB)

2) The Cork Community needs a ORK-DUB air link.

3) When an airline says where going to pull the base because charging us taxes on a route which will be significantly loss making (if they're imposed), you can understand why the CAA have taken that decision because its better to keep earning on stand prices for the based FR aircraft everyday!

Now i fully except that most days the aircraft to/from DUB are operating with about 50 to 60% spare seats onboard (in fact FR close off rows to balance the plane), but do you all seriously mean to tell me if the route is ''loss making'' as ye are pointing out then why would FR waste crew resources from DUB to do a W DUB-ORK-LPL-DUB route? if its so loss making the route would be dropped in a notch.

[fivejuliet]

There is no point getting bitter because the point you are arguing is quite far from reality.

I laughed at the "The Cork Community needs a ORK-DUB air link." - sounds similar to "the wehst demands it" :P

The reason (if any) that Ryanair maintains a token presence on the route is to prevent Aer Arann making a return, though in their current state that seems unlikely.

[brian_dromey]

I dont really accept that Cork needs a flight to DUB, to be honest. Given total travel times the advantage of taking the plane over the road/train is probably not there. Dublin itself is reliably 2.5 hours from Cork now, by road and rail. Given FR's early check-in times and gate roulette at DUB (you could be close to the airport, or walk from the furthest of the D gates) the advantages are really not there for the O&D passenger.

What ORK needs is an airline that would be willing to connect ORK to multiple points via DUB by menas of interline and/or codeshare agreements. FR is not that airline.

[Angry Rebel]

I disagree the Cork route isn't needed anymore for a number of reasons.

As a frequent traveller to Dublin I use train, car and plane as demanded by my schedule, which includes final Dublin destination, time and flexibility. The plane is definitely still valid. The time argument doesn't stack up if you checkin online, turn up nice and close to departure and aren't going somewhere too far south of the Liffey.

In terms of onward connection, it's so much easier to fly to Dublin with all your luggage etc than go on the train or even drive with it.