IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK

[CabinCrewe]

The loads are truly shocking, down to less than 1000 pax for the whole month for the first time in ages. It can surely only be an operational swap.
Im surprised the route has lasted in its current shape. Twice weekly on a turboprop would more than suffice, I would have thought. Or transfer the aircraft to something more worthwhile.

[Bartek]

NOC-EDI is most certainly not the weakest link in terms of passenger numbers on Ireland-Scotland routes. Loganair's CFN-GLA looks to be the most marginal, and arguably the most superfluous, in terms of 'behinds on seats'. It's a wonder that one is still operating. Presumably it's only there because the airline gets the subsidy to operate CFN-DUB and is simply positioning in from GLA.

[Knock63]

I think it was a 175, brand new, 1st flight today.

[Kinocker]

Thanks for the info Knock 63, its good to see them using the 175 on the route...I missed it by 7 days! The 175 has a similar capacity to the Dash 8 so it is unlikely to be a one off operational swap. We'll probably see a mix of the two aircraft types on the route from now on as more 175s are delivered to flybe to replace the turboprops.

In terms of passenger numbers, they were up in September but down in October. There were fewer flights during the summer than 2011 so those numbers are not relevant for comparison. From my experience of using the service the loads have been fairly steady throughout, naturally a bit busier during the summer months.

[Locker10a]

I see EI are operating an extra flight to LGW on the 22nd of December, obviously for the Christmas rush,still its good to see there was demand enough on the route to warrant an extra A320 rotation

[mart901]

Noticeable EI running A320 over that period, also FR have the usual few extra STN and LTN flights around Christmas and New Year. Nothing I notice from EIR on BHX and next summer still showing daily, despite 90+% load factors.

[Kinocker]

Ireland West Airport Knock threatens legal challenge over Shannon plans

Possibly just a bit of posturing to get a fair share of the pot on offer, but it does seem as though the Shannon plans may be unfairly beneficial to one airport at the expense of a number of others.

[sawtooth]

Possibly just a bit of posturing to get a fair share of the pot on offer, but it does seem as though the Shannon plans may be unfairly beneficial to one airport at the expense of a number of others.

Varadkar seems to have been talking out of both sides of his mouth for the last year... closing Galway/Sligo on the basis that airports had to stand on their own feet and accepting the recommendations of the regional airports report, supporting new routes launches at NOC, but now saying policy intervention is necessary to stop NOC overtaking SNN and providing a newly independent airport with a generous support package and debt write-off.

"Minister has made up his mind" NOC claiming he has refused to engage on their growth plans and Shannon business plan cites removing routes from NOC as part of it's growth strategy.

Ireland West Airport Knock urges balance and fairness in aviation in response to impending Government decision on Shannon Airport

[Jamie2k9]

"Minister has made up his mind" NOC claiming he has refused to engage on their growth plans and Shannon business plan cites removing routes from NOC as part of it's growth strategy.

Think he means SNN will get the routes back that NOC took in the first place.

NOC didn't urge balance and fairness over the last few years did they?

MOL must of had a few words with NOC recently IMO...

NOC is an airport that opens for lunch and then cloases so losses will be kept down. You can't even do a return to London so until NOC is open for 7am-9pm and offers a decent London service then we will see the loss per passenger differance. If comparing two airports at least have a balanced reason to do so unlike NOC's one.

Lest be honest it comes down to who gets Ryanair and no other airlines are concered. FR are in a great position now.

[sawtooth]

Think he means SNN will get the routes back that NOC took in the first place.

I think it was Ryanair that did the taking/giving and KIR/ORK also benefited, no airport has a right to any service. NOC from my reading are looking for the right to compete on a reasonably level playing pitch. Remember NOC have been rebuffed on their plans for tax designation, business park, expansion plan, SDZ, and have cut staff wages and hours to break even. So I can see why their nose is out of joint.

NOC didn't urge balance and fairness over the last few years did they?

Actually if you look back at their Chairmans statements and presentations to the Oireachtas Transport Committees they have been calling for balanced aviation policy for years and pointing out inconstancies in PSO, CAPEX allocation, IAA regulation and ATC charges to name but a few.

It's one thing airports offering knock down deals to attract airlines away from another, it's another think Governments giving them funding to do so, albeit indirectly funnelled.

Lest be honest it comes down to who gets Ryanair and no other airlines are concered. FR are in a great position now.

Yes, only one airline has the pulling power and route network, their statement implies that would be fatal to NOC, though I think it unlikely they would pull out completely.

[Jamie2k9]

no airport has a right to any service

NOC's press release seems to think they have a right to the routes..

Actually if you look back at their Chairmans statements and presentations to the Oireachtas Transport Committees they have been calling for balanced aviation policy for years and pointing out inconstancies in PSO, CAPEX allocation, IAA regulation and ATC charges to name but a few.

I was referring to fairness when it comes to SNN more so.

I will agree all forms of transport in this country are a mess and they need major change.

Remember NOC have been rebuffed on their plans for tax designation, business park, expansion plan, SDZ, and have cut staff wages and hours to break even. So I can see why their nose is out of joint.

Indeed and I would expect a range of saving to be implemented at SNN in the coming months to reduce the losses to otherwise the 100 million won't be long running out.

Will NOC be at a major disadvantage as SNN will not be paying carriers to operate from there (same as NOC). They will still be more expensive than NOC (fact). All SNN can do is offer a incentive like the current DAA ones. It just means NOC will need to be a little more flexibly and introduce incentives to airlines. (ie discount on changes) only problem is NOC is already very low so airlines should be queuing up to operate from there over SNN but they are not and the simple reason is because NOC can't support routes that are not aimed at leisure market from here or the likes of Germany for incoming holidaymakers.

SNN could support a daily CDG flight but NOC could not.

Yes, only one airline has the pulling power and route network, their statement implies that would be fatal to NOC, though I think it unlikely they would pull out completely.

Agree a complete pull won'y happen at most you will lose BGY, HHN, BVA. I have always said that NOC are over relaient on FR and that something like this could happen.

[sawtooth]

NOC's press release seems to think they have a right to the routes..

No they have the right to fair competition for the routes

SNN could support a daily CDG flight but NOC could not.

It would seem so, but the two most recent trials failed (AF/EI).

Agree a complete pull won'y happen at most you will lose BGY, HHN, BVA. I have always said that NOC are over relaient on FR and that something like this could happen.

As have most of us, it's no surprise Shannon independence long flagged and FR will exploit. What is somewhat of a surprise is that the DOT don't seem as favourable to supporting NOC as they seemed to be (deafening silence from local TDs), and the incentives being mentioned along with debt write-down do seem to give SNN a very advantageous starting point without any mention of efficiency.

[Fly_bill]

I think the two airports can easily co-exist and have done so in the last twenty years - The Galway market aside they both serve predomianntly different catchment regions Varadkar seems to be targeting very optimistic growth - 2.5m passengers, ywhich lets be honest will require a major expansion with Ryanair - its a bit rich to say Knock over reliant on Ryanair when its clearly obvious if Shannon want to get anywhere near those types of figures Ryanair are going to have to go back in again in a big way and become the dominant carrier - this has already been tried and tested and didnt work at the levels forecasted. Sawtooth is right Aer Lingus already tried a CDG and a LGW and both didnt work so whats changed in 12 months??.

[Jack1985]

Statement in response to Transport Minister Varadkar's comments on state funding.

Leo Varadkar actually fooled me into the hope of a new type of Aviation Policy in the ROI. Once again politicians at their best, he's not contributed one good thing to the sector. Nicely put by Ireland West Airport Knock Management. Ireland West Airport Knock

[Jamie2k9]

Only 20 million in direct funding, can anyone confirm it that a correct amount?

[ryan2000]

Knock is in the Taoiseach's constituency and FG hold 4 of the 5 seats. They'll be expected to stand up for it in the months ahead.

[Cyrano]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Only 20 million in direct funding, can anyone confirm it that a correct amount?

I wouldn't dismiss the PSO funding so fast. PSOs have always been a secondary method of funding the regional airports.
Airline: "I'm thinking of starting a route to your airport. How much is landing and handling?"
Airport: "That'll be €x per turnaround, please."
Airline: "Hmm. Actually, I have another idea. I'll bid for the PSO route to your airport. Same price for landing and handling?"
Airport: "No, actually it'll be €2x per turnaround for a PSO service, but don't worry, that's the amount we quote to all the PSO bidders, so you can just show that on your PSO business plan and the Department will have to accept it, and that way we get some extra revenue."

So even though some part of the PSO funding does end up with the airline and with DUB, a decent chunk of it goes to the regional airport too.

[sawtooth]

IWAK CEO Joe Gilmore gave a radio interview today, some interesting points and figures:

- Knock not happy to protest, Government not engaging with proposals
- Problem not Shannon, welcome support for another airport in the region
- Problem is lack of balanced aviation policy. "Shannon decision cart before the horse"
- "Gov policy instruments directed at replacing Knock"
- Ignored Booze report warning on need for strategy before separating DAA airports
- Worried about cumulative effect of financial package undermining fair competition
(Debt write-off, Working capital, Land-bank rents, further Budget tax incentives to come tomorrow)

He gave some details on Knock status:
- Run by a trust with stated aim of economic development for the region
- Seamus Brennan signed objectives in 1991 as a statutory community trust
- "More state owned than the DAA"
- Trust sole shareholder, all income goes back to airport
- 7 board members voluntary, receive no fees bar 1, all profits reinvested

NOC breaking even, development fee earning €3m pa, "would close without it"
€15m state capital investment in last 5 years, debt €10m
€350,000 operational funding in 2011 (cutting all OPEX 2014)

[Mayfly1]

I think Knock management are being measured in their public comment...but reading between the lines it's clear their believe Varadkar is the Minister for DAA airports only and is determined to shaft all regionals not alone Knock, consider Kerry's position also. Knock is the only one with the mojo to take the issue on in the public media. The local Minister and Taoiseach will Ceo under pressure to answer some serious questions here , or they will be accused of supporting the decline and possible closure under their watch of what has been a remarkable success story against all the odds. I think this is just the first chapter of what will be a long road ...

[sawtooth]

US routes

Apparently NOC were in discussion with a US airline recently, but Leo Varadkar had a meeting the following week to push SNN, ouch. (Mentioned in NOC presentation to a Dail committee today).