IRELAND WEST AIRPORT KNOCK
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Flybe - Europes leading regional airline
Great news today Europoes leading regional airline expanding out of Knock, the only regional airport in Ireland they have a presence in. Hopefully this the start of a bright future for the airline at Knock, great potential for more routes with the right sized aircraft - a major coup for the airport
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Absolutely fantastic news - for so many reasons:
1) Connection to Scotland restored, a major gap in the market from Knock filled (and now so much easier for me to get home too!)
2) Perfect sized plane for the route and the correct Scottish airport choice, always thought BMIBaby's Glasgow - Knock effort was the wrong sized plane into the wrong Scottish airport.
3) Another new airline, 5 scheduled airlines from Knock at the same time is some going, two of them have no other ROI presence outside of Dublin.
4) Potential for more flybe routes if this works out, 78 seater Q400s bring routes into play that FR and WWs planes are just to large for.
5) Seventeen scheduled routes now bookable from the airport. SEVENTEEN!!!
6) That desperately needed hub connection, I've spoken about it a lot on here recently, this isn't it but it has to be marketed to flybe now as part of any future expansion.
As an aside, I recently flew AF from LAX to GLA connecting from CDG up to Glasgow with flybe on a Q400, single ticket, bags checked straight through from LA. It was the first day of their new codeshare arrangement and it wasn't exactly seemless but teething problems aside it got me where I wanted to go. I'd love to be able to do a similar journey to/from Knock at some point in the future. The Ireland West website even mentions the AF codeshare so its obviously something they're looking at seriously.
The three bucket and spade routes last week were nice, but this has so much more potential, very exciting times at Knock.
1) Connection to Scotland restored, a major gap in the market from Knock filled (and now so much easier for me to get home too!)
2) Perfect sized plane for the route and the correct Scottish airport choice, always thought BMIBaby's Glasgow - Knock effort was the wrong sized plane into the wrong Scottish airport.
3) Another new airline, 5 scheduled airlines from Knock at the same time is some going, two of them have no other ROI presence outside of Dublin.
4) Potential for more flybe routes if this works out, 78 seater Q400s bring routes into play that FR and WWs planes are just to large for.
5) Seventeen scheduled routes now bookable from the airport. SEVENTEEN!!!
6) That desperately needed hub connection, I've spoken about it a lot on here recently, this isn't it but it has to be marketed to flybe now as part of any future expansion.
As an aside, I recently flew AF from LAX to GLA connecting from CDG up to Glasgow with flybe on a Q400, single ticket, bags checked straight through from LA. It was the first day of their new codeshare arrangement and it wasn't exactly seemless but teething problems aside it got me where I wanted to go. I'd love to be able to do a similar journey to/from Knock at some point in the future. The Ireland West website even mentions the AF codeshare so its obviously something they're looking at seriously.
The three bucket and spade routes last week were nice, but this has so much more potential, very exciting times at Knock.
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I personally think knock has the uk well covered now apart from the availability of a day return to london. Anybody think that there are other airports that could be served that would be well supported.
I still think that flybe has been a majour coup for the airport just wish it was a tues /fri/sun/ service for weekend breakers. Anyway that may come in time.
I still think that flybe has been a majour coup for the airport just wish it was a tues /fri/sun/ service for weekend breakers. Anyway that may come in time.
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Management should definetely pursue the connectivity to a hub option. NOC is now handling about 60 per cent of Shannons non US and transit traffic so in the basis that SNN can support 3 320's per day to LHR, a daily flight from
NOC to s major hub should be feasible.
NOC to s major hub should be feasible.
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The website has been updated with the four new routes and has a finished look to it, so I suspect thats the route network finalised for next year.
Had a look through flybe's destination list there for possible future expansion if they take a liking to Knock. As said above there is not much room or need for expansion to British airports, the UK is fairly well covered now. Maybe Cardiff or Newcastle might be the types of routes that would never work on a 738 but might have a chance with a smaller airplane maybe 3 days a week. Even that might be a stretch though.
Further abroad Paris CDG and Amsterdam would be the obvious ones. Maybe a flight to a central European airport might work for flybe or Ryanair, Kerry seem to have had some success with Hahn, which is in the middle of nowhere but at the same time not too far from a lot of population centres.
Meanwhile, have Aer Arann just decided not to bother with the Dublin PSO route anymore or something - its cancelled yet again today and seems to have been all week? I posted on the Aer Arann thread as well, if they're being well funded by the Irish Government what excuse do they have not to operate the flight?
Had a look through flybe's destination list there for possible future expansion if they take a liking to Knock. As said above there is not much room or need for expansion to British airports, the UK is fairly well covered now. Maybe Cardiff or Newcastle might be the types of routes that would never work on a 738 but might have a chance with a smaller airplane maybe 3 days a week. Even that might be a stretch though.
Further abroad Paris CDG and Amsterdam would be the obvious ones. Maybe a flight to a central European airport might work for flybe or Ryanair, Kerry seem to have had some success with Hahn, which is in the middle of nowhere but at the same time not too far from a lot of population centres.
Meanwhile, have Aer Arann just decided not to bother with the Dublin PSO route anymore or something - its cancelled yet again today and seems to have been all week? I posted on the Aer Arann thread as well, if they're being well funded by the Irish Government what excuse do they have not to operate the flight?
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I personally think knock has the uk well covered now apart from the availability of a day return to london. Anybody think that there are other airports that could be served that would be well supported.
Seventeen scheduled routes now bookable from the airport. SEVENTEEN!!!
Were all these routes operating on 2007 numbers they would be hitting the 1m pax target. But the snow and ash in Spring 2010, combined with little or no marketing, and frequencies/pax numbers down on some routes, they will probably be similar to last year overall.
FR EMA, LBA and LPL have shown the most growth but eating away at WW BHX, MAN.
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It's certainly great news with the entrance of Flybe, especially with the expected departure of Aer Arann ( whom at the moment seemed to not have shown up at the airport for a month)
It would be great for Flybe or anyone to open up a hub connection AMS maybe I seem to remember before open skies that a LHR flight was very close to getting off the ground. I always hope LHR will be on the boards and I still remain confident that EI will step in, they're Gatwick seems steady. Did think with EIR other routes would open, but it seems we look at flybe and ryanair for growth now, perhaps a Jersey flight maybe near
The baby seems content where they are did feel in the past they had they're chance to expand at knock to mainland europe.
So I guess the questoin is what next for NOC, they clearly need to work on timings and timetables, a day return to LON is essential. I remain hopeful for charters at the airport too, perhaps its time to look towards greece and turkey as possible destinations with FR circling.
It would be great to see a continental route to prague or somewhere like that, is it strange that Knock of all places doesn't have a flight to Rome?
Management seem to have a head on they're shoulder and development of infrastructure continues there, and staff are generally efficient, maybe a cargo link is needed?
So I guess the questoin is what next for NOC, they clearly need to work on timings and timetables, a day return to LON is essential. I remain hopeful for charters at the airport too, perhaps its time to look towards greece and turkey as possible destinations with FR circling.
It would be great to see a continental route to prague or somewhere like that, is it strange that Knock of all places doesn't have a flight to Rome?
Management seem to have a head on they're shoulder and development of infractucture continues there, and staff are generally efficent, maybe a cargo link is needed?
It would be great for Flybe or anyone to open up a hub connection AMS maybe I seem to remember before open skies that a LHR flight was very close to getting off the ground. I always hope LHR will be on the boards and I still remain confident that EI will step in, they're Gatwick seems steady. Did think with EIR other routes would open, but it seems we look at flybe and ryanair for growth now, perhaps a Jersey flight maybe near
The baby seems content where they are did feel in the past they had they're chance to expand at knock to mainland europe.
So I guess the questoin is what next for NOC, they clearly need to work on timings and timetables, a day return to LON is essential. I remain hopeful for charters at the airport too, perhaps its time to look towards greece and turkey as possible destinations with FR circling.
It would be great to see a continental route to prague or somewhere like that, is it strange that Knock of all places doesn't have a flight to Rome?
Management seem to have a head on they're shoulder and development of infrastructure continues there, and staff are generally efficient, maybe a cargo link is needed?
So I guess the questoin is what next for NOC, they clearly need to work on timings and timetables, a day return to LON is essential. I remain hopeful for charters at the airport too, perhaps its time to look towards greece and turkey as possible destinations with FR circling.
It would be great to see a continental route to prague or somewhere like that, is it strange that Knock of all places doesn't have a flight to Rome?
Management seem to have a head on they're shoulder and development of infractucture continues there, and staff are generally efficent, maybe a cargo link is needed?
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I guess the numbers for all the Irish airports will be out in the next few weeks, but given that probably every airport in the country is looking at a drop this year they might not be rushing the info out into the public domain first thing on Monday morning.
For Knock I would guess there will be another drop this year, anything under a 5% reduction would be very good going given the year its been with the weather, the volcano, the economy and Aer Arann not bothering to turn up most days. Perhaps some hope of an improvement next year with the new routes, but it is only 6 new flights a week and the likely loss of the Dublin route at some point will have an effect. There seem to be fewer charters year on year also.
On the subject of charters, does anyone have any information on the Loganair Sumburgh flights? I understand they relate to the Corrib Gas project, but I know nothing else of them other than that.
For Knock I would guess there will be another drop this year, anything under a 5% reduction would be very good going given the year its been with the weather, the volcano, the economy and Aer Arann not bothering to turn up most days. Perhaps some hope of an improvement next year with the new routes, but it is only 6 new flights a week and the likely loss of the Dublin route at some point will have an effect. There seem to be fewer charters year on year also.
On the subject of charters, does anyone have any information on the Loganair Sumburgh flights? I understand they relate to the Corrib Gas project, but I know nothing else of them other than that.
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I guess the numbers for all the Irish airports will be out in the next few weeks, but given that probably every airport in the country is looking at a drop this year they might not be rushing the info out into the public domain first thing on Monday morning.
Generally looks like continued decline across the board, but hopefully bottoming out in 2010. KIR gained NRN/MAN routes in 2010 which give it a numbers lift, though some FR routes may not return this year. NOC figures much the same as 2009 as lower loads/frequencies offset new route gains, but should see growth this year with 4 new routes starting the Spring.
Estimated final figures
Sligo 21,600
Donegal 48,700
Waterford 94,000
Galway 161,000
Derry 335,000
Kerry 416,000
Ireland West 606,000
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That's interesting sawtooth, thanks for the info, if those figures for November and December have held up then Knock will have gone exceptionally close to matching last years passenger numbers (607,005 according to their website).
I would argue that to be an excellent performance given the year its been, with Cork losing a quarter of its passengers in the last two years and Shannon and Galway both losing more than 40% in the same period, Knock's passenger reduction in the same period would be less than four percent with potential for a small increase with the new routes in 2011.
I would argue that to be an excellent performance given the year its been, with Cork losing a quarter of its passengers in the last two years and Shannon and Galway both losing more than 40% in the same period, Knock's passenger reduction in the same period would be less than four percent with potential for a small increase with the new routes in 2011.
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I was expecting a drop also given lower loads on UK routes, PSO fall off and weather events in 2010. But they did add new LBA, FAO & REU routes. One new route can make a big difference to a small airports figures. If the UK market recovers they should see healthy growth in 2011.
While I'm at the back of the envelope estimations I'd guess they have about 1.2M scheduled seat capacity in and out of NOC this year.
While I'm at the back of the envelope estimations I'd guess they have about 1.2M scheduled seat capacity in and out of NOC this year.
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So I went and looked. According to the jolly useful Capstats (sorry - subscription required), in 2010 there were 2935 scheduled departures from NOC and a total of 475,343 outbound seats.
That's 950,000 seats in total, or an overall load factor (assuming all the passengers are scheduled) of 62%, which smells a bit better (although still on the low side).
C.
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I'd looked at 2011 frequencies and 4 new routes for that figure, charters would also add to that. But thanks for the 2010 info sounds about right.
Not staggering load average but given the economic situation and the poor timings of many of the LCC flights not too bad. Looking at it another way it shows the figures the airport should be achieving with better frequencies and loads in the future.
Not staggering load average but given the economic situation and the poor timings of many of the LCC flights not too bad. Looking at it another way it shows the figures the airport should be achieving with better frequencies and loads in the future.
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60% load factors are a bit on the low side alright, I had thought it would be somewhat higher than that. I wonder if having flights to Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds/Bradford is a bit of overcapacity to that part of the UK? I would have thought that the three daily return flights during the summer to London airports would have been about right, but perhaps not. Sometimes it seems with Ryanair that when they open a new base somewhere they stick in a flight to Knock in the middle of the day to fill a schedule gap because they feel they can't lose with the low airport charges etc. Examples of this would include LBA and more recently the three new Canary Island bases.
Certainly the flight timings in and out of the airport don't help, next to nothing early morning and late evening and then almost busier in the middle of the day than Shannon or Cork, maybe sometime an airline will choose to base an aircraft which would change all that. Ryanair have enough flights to and from the airport in the summer months to base two in theory.
I could well imagine the daily RE flight to and from Dublin carrying single digit numbers quite often, maybe that contributes a lot to spare capacity?
Certainly the flight timings in and out of the airport don't help, next to nothing early morning and late evening and then almost busier in the middle of the day than Shannon or Cork, maybe sometime an airline will choose to base an aircraft which would change all that. Ryanair have enough flights to and from the airport in the summer months to base two in theory.
I could well imagine the daily RE flight to and from Dublin carrying single digit numbers quite often, maybe that contributes a lot to spare capacity?
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The Knock - Leeds passenger numbers between June - October.
2010. Left end of March and April out as it had only began.
May -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 1566
Empty Seats = 3348
June -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2140
Empty Seats = 2774
July -
Availible seats both ways = 5292
Booked Seats = 2625
Empty Seats = 2667
August -
Availible seats both ways = 4536
Booked Seats = 3503
Empty Seats = 1033
September -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2496
Empty Seats = 2418
October -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2581
Empty Seats = 2333
Personally I think the route is a wast of time and money for FR and FR also tried it from SNN and it was dropped.
2010. Left end of March and April out as it had only began.
May -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 1566
Empty Seats = 3348
June -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2140
Empty Seats = 2774
July -
Availible seats both ways = 5292
Booked Seats = 2625
Empty Seats = 2667
August -
Availible seats both ways = 4536
Booked Seats = 3503
Empty Seats = 1033
September -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2496
Empty Seats = 2418
October -
Availible seats both ways = 4914
Booked Seats = 2581
Empty Seats = 2333
Personally I think the route is a wast of time and money for FR and FR also tried it from SNN and it was dropped.
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I wonder if having flights to Liverpool, Manchester and Leeds/Bradford is a bit of overcapacity to that part of the UK?
But I'd imagine FRs LBA strategy is as much about sqeezing WW (their only remaining UK competition in Irish market outside DUB). WW were carrying 8k per month 2x daily MAN and BHX in summer a few years back. Those numbers are half that now with FR LPL doing very well, EMA similarly eroding BHX traffic.
On the other hand FR bring in the numbers and stimulate traffic with low fares where higher margin airlines may never have bothered.
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Ryanair have improved STN flight times for 2011.
Monday - depart 08:10
Tuesday - depart 08:10
Wednesday - depart 08:50
Thursday - depart 16:45
Firday - depart 10:05
Saturday - depart 08:25
Sunday - depart 16:45
Monday - depart 08:10
Tuesday - depart 08:10
Wednesday - depart 08:50
Thursday - depart 16:45
Firday - depart 10:05
Saturday - depart 08:25
Sunday - depart 16:45
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Wow - those are some very early times for Knock, arrivals from London to the airport at 7:45am are not common. I wonder if this is in any way to do with the new EI Shannon - Gatwick route, on first glance you'd think it had nothing to do with it but weren't Shannon or Aer Lingus boasting yesterday about how it would be the only early morning arrival to the West of Ireland from London. I don't know if that would be relevant to this decision or not?
Last edited by Kinocker; 6th Jan 2011 at 16:44.