LONDON CITY - 2
mostly harmless
KLM's on-line timetable shows 10 AMS-LHR flights per weekday in April 2008, i.e. summer timetable. Same as now.
Is there any substance to the KLM - VLM merger rumour? If anyone was to buy VLM, I would bet on private equity participation.
Is there any substance to the KLM - VLM merger rumour? If anyone was to buy VLM, I would bet on private equity participation.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 254
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KLM VLM battle on AMS
I vaguely remember VLM and KLM going head to head increasing frequency on AMS sometime last year? Anyone any idea's when it was and how many they both increased by?
Thread Starter
I guess this is about the right time (Thursday morning, people starting to think about the weekend) to bump up the LCY Fun Day this coming weekend (Saturday 7 July, 2.00 pm onwards) which I know a number on this forum are regulars at, and some even take part in the organisation.
http://www.londoncityairport.com/ind...ge=fundayabout
I prefer to view the flying display from across the dock by the rowing club but we always make our way round to the main show as well.
WHBM and Mrs WHBM
both making an appearence.
http://www.londoncityairport.com/ind...ge=fundayabout
I prefer to view the flying display from across the dock by the rowing club but we always make our way round to the main show as well.
WHBM and Mrs WHBM
both making an appearence.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Europe
Posts: 88
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Vlm Ams
VLM operated services to RTM ex LCY for many years and in 2005 they began flights to AMS also. KLM got upset by this and so they started a RTM service in retaliation. SO both KLM and VLM were operating RTM and AMS services.
KLM had all sorts of fleet problems and dilution of their exisitng LHR/RTM service and dropped LCY/RTM Q1 2006 I think.
KLM had crew/fleet/reliability problems with thier AMS shuttle ex LCY and VLM saw the chance to build on their OTP and strong brand in the docklands to increase capacity. They grew their service rapidly mid 2006 from 4 to 6 to 8 and KLM at the same time fluctuated between 6 and 8.
VLM had already won over the leading Dutch corporates with their RTM service so a strong AMS service (the only prop not to have to park remotely at AMS) saw the suits defecting from KLM to VLM.
The introduction of an FFP and the 1st AMS flight ex LCY meant VLM had cornered the point 2 point market, whilst some 75% of the pax on KLM were actually transiting AMS onto longhaul destinations (Africa, Asia etc) so not of interest to VLM.
KLM had all sorts of fleet problems and dilution of their exisitng LHR/RTM service and dropped LCY/RTM Q1 2006 I think.
KLM had crew/fleet/reliability problems with thier AMS shuttle ex LCY and VLM saw the chance to build on their OTP and strong brand in the docklands to increase capacity. They grew their service rapidly mid 2006 from 4 to 6 to 8 and KLM at the same time fluctuated between 6 and 8.
VLM had already won over the leading Dutch corporates with their RTM service so a strong AMS service (the only prop not to have to park remotely at AMS) saw the suits defecting from KLM to VLM.
The introduction of an FFP and the 1st AMS flight ex LCY meant VLM had cornered the point 2 point market, whilst some 75% of the pax on KLM were actually transiting AMS onto longhaul destinations (Africa, Asia etc) so not of interest to VLM.
Thread Starter
Vienna and Berlin
See there are some slots reserved elsewhere for a Vienna to LCY pair of flights :
OS467/68 Daily F70 arr LCY 0615 dep LCY 0645
OS469/70 Daily F70 arr LCY 2030 dep LCY 2100
Would presume they are shown UTC so +1 hour for local time, and obviously they are just placeholders with the daily frequency through the weekend, but still remarkably early departure from Vienna and late return there. Is this the best LCY can offer for a new service at present ?
Likewise for Berlin Tegel :
LH4838/39 M-F 146 arr LCY 0645 dep LCY 0715
LH4840/41 M-F 146 arr LCY 1330 dep LCY 1400
LH4842/43 Not Sat 146 arr LCY 1635 dep LCY 1705
Would be good to see an F70 back again, it must be about 10 years now since Air France operated them through City. And it would be good to have Berlin back again, one of the earliest destinations (the first jet flights from City ?). Just a shame it's not to Tempelhof airport, which is even more in the city than LCY is, almost like having a runway and a grand terminal building in Hyde Park.
OS467/68 Daily F70 arr LCY 0615 dep LCY 0645
OS469/70 Daily F70 arr LCY 2030 dep LCY 2100
Would presume they are shown UTC so +1 hour for local time, and obviously they are just placeholders with the daily frequency through the weekend, but still remarkably early departure from Vienna and late return there. Is this the best LCY can offer for a new service at present ?
Likewise for Berlin Tegel :
LH4838/39 M-F 146 arr LCY 0645 dep LCY 0715
LH4840/41 M-F 146 arr LCY 1330 dep LCY 1400
LH4842/43 Not Sat 146 arr LCY 1635 dep LCY 1705
Would be good to see an F70 back again, it must be about 10 years now since Air France operated them through City. And it would be good to have Berlin back again, one of the earliest destinations (the first jet flights from City ?). Just a shame it's not to Tempelhof airport, which is even more in the city than LCY is, almost like having a runway and a grand terminal building in Hyde Park.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting stuff. That means that the Fokker 70 will get some modifications. The only Fokker 70s around with these modifications are the three ex Air Littoral birds.
As far as TXL is concerned, I think we will have to wait and see. Three 146 flights seems to be quite a lot of capacity, given the lacklustre performance of Berlin routes in the past. Must be fourth time the route is tried after Conti, Eurowings and Lufthansa Mk. I. Probably an ATR42 would be better suited, but maybe too long a route for a prop (same distance as LCY-MUC where the (fast) D328 prop has been replaced by a jet)
As far as TXL is concerned, I think we will have to wait and see. Three 146 flights seems to be quite a lot of capacity, given the lacklustre performance of Berlin routes in the past. Must be fourth time the route is tried after Conti, Eurowings and Lufthansa Mk. I. Probably an ATR42 would be better suited, but maybe too long a route for a prop (same distance as LCY-MUC where the (fast) D328 prop has been replaced by a jet)
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
They need some sort of software update mainly related to the braking systems. Even after the update, there appears to be an issue particularly if the runway is wet - which is the reason why Air France quickly replaced the Fokker 70 with Cityjet's BAe 146s (which really was the nucleus of Cityjet becoming an Air France-owned airline some years later).
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
'And it would be good to have Berlin back again, one of the earliest destinations (the first jet flights from City ?).'
The first jet service (if i recall correctly) was Zurich twice a day using a BAe 146-200 with Crossair. This was in 1992 just after the runway was extended to allow jets in for the first time. The airport you have today would not have existed if it hadn't been for that runway lengthening.
The first jet service (if i recall correctly) was Zurich twice a day using a BAe 146-200 with Crossair. This was in 1992 just after the runway was extended to allow jets in for the first time. The airport you have today would not have existed if it hadn't been for that runway lengthening.
Last edited by turnipgreen; 18th Jul 2007 at 13:08.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Security Area
I flew through LCY yesterday and noticed some work going on at security on the first floor. Anyone know what they are doing? I Seem to remember some work going on at the same time last year.
Thread Starter
Flew out of the airport end of last week, the queue for security was the complete length of the upper floor gallery, never seen this at LCY before. And slow moving. And just as I got to the front, another security station was opened. It had been closed.
One of the key things that LCY has going for it is quick procedures, so it would be a crying shame to start having a "if they queue at other airports they can queue here" approach. Even at Manchester later that afternoon it was quicker to get through ! There's not a lot of point in having a 20 minute check-in if it takes that long queueing for security.
The "queue patrol" do at least wear professional-looking uniform suits rather than the clowns doing the same task at BAA airports just given a day-glo jacket, but didn't seem to be achieving a great deal, or indeed understand much about their role. Are they Newham 6th formers on work experience ?
One of the key things that LCY has going for it is quick procedures, so it would be a crying shame to start having a "if they queue at other airports they can queue here" approach. Even at Manchester later that afternoon it was quicker to get through ! There's not a lot of point in having a 20 minute check-in if it takes that long queueing for security.
The "queue patrol" do at least wear professional-looking uniform suits rather than the clowns doing the same task at BAA airports just given a day-glo jacket, but didn't seem to be achieving a great deal, or indeed understand much about their role. Are they Newham 6th formers on work experience ?
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Belfast
Posts: 126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Used LCY for the first time last week, Cityjet to BHD. The Scotair 328 was a litte small for my liking but the service at LCY and onboard was second to none. Expensive, but well worth it. I'll be back.
Join Date: May 2005
Location: uk
Posts: 103
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Security Queue
I also flew again last week and as no one had answered my question on this forum, I took the initiative and tried to answer my own question. The work at security is apprently for a 4th security lane which should be ready in September I was told. That may help the issue you had WHBM?
Thread Starter
Seems like we have got an unadvertised airshow this morning (Thursday 26th) with the Red Bull Air Race aircraft doing plenty of practice in/out of LCY. The commercial traffic is just carrying on in the gaps.
Must be interesting for you ATC folks. Looks like some of the takeoffs might have to level at 3,000 feet before they pass the upwind end of the runway. The F50 drivers will be a bit envious !
Must be interesting for you ATC folks. Looks like some of the takeoffs might have to level at 3,000 feet before they pass the upwind end of the runway. The F50 drivers will be a bit envious !
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Underneath downwind R for 09 at EGLC
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Damm, missed that, instead I just heard Flyer 81....(no tango this time) doing a few missed approaches in that lovely crosswind 
.... I wouldnt mind a go at circuits in an RJ sure beats doing them in a c152
.... I wouldnt mind a go at circuits in an RJ sure beats doing them in a c152
Thread Starter
Met Police looking to charge LCY for security
Article on TV news this evening that the Met Police are looking to charge London City Airport (and thus, through its fees, its users) for the policing costs that are incurred for providing police cover at the airport.
London City should rebut this in the strongest possible terms.
1. All of us, as taxpayers, have ALREADY paid for our national police services and should not, through airport charges or other means, have to pay for this again.
2. The perceived threat is against UK prominent installations as a whole and is nothing that air travellers have brought on themselves. As a comparison there is a substantial police security presence at Buckingham Palace for the same reason. the Royal Family are not expected to pay for this.
3. The police presence at London City is nowadays grossly over the top. I am not encouraged at all by hordes of scowling machine-gun toting officers swaggering about the terminal swinging their guns in my direction, this can do no good at all, whenever did machine-gun armed officers ever achieve anything ? For women and children it makes them frightened, the very opposite effect to what should be achieved. It is not effective policing though doubtless it is all very expensive. Well, if the police want to perform tasks I feel are inappropriate I guess they have the right to do so, just don't expect those of us who are airport users to pay for these activities.
London City should rebut this in the strongest possible terms.
1. All of us, as taxpayers, have ALREADY paid for our national police services and should not, through airport charges or other means, have to pay for this again.
2. The perceived threat is against UK prominent installations as a whole and is nothing that air travellers have brought on themselves. As a comparison there is a substantial police security presence at Buckingham Palace for the same reason. the Royal Family are not expected to pay for this.
3. The police presence at London City is nowadays grossly over the top. I am not encouraged at all by hordes of scowling machine-gun toting officers swaggering about the terminal swinging their guns in my direction, this can do no good at all, whenever did machine-gun armed officers ever achieve anything ? For women and children it makes them frightened, the very opposite effect to what should be achieved. It is not effective policing though doubtless it is all very expensive. Well, if the police want to perform tasks I feel are inappropriate I guess they have the right to do so, just don't expect those of us who are airport users to pay for these activities.
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: London (Babylon-on-Thames)
Age: 42
Posts: 6,168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is a degree of truth here, I am both an enthusiast as an aviation photographer and a regular user as a passenger. On a recent trip to Glasgow after the terrorist debacle I was astonished at the civil and level headed response of the BAA security and Strathclyde Police. The usual spots to watch the aircraft were well monitored by tolerant and civil patrols who were not thrown into panic at the sight of a Nikon being pointed at a plane. All in all, they were familiar with the whole hobby thing and a pleasant surprise to someone who has perhaps been away from home too long.
Contrast this with London City where the policemen with guns come down on any spotters like a ton of bricks, in my view partly because they have little else to do and as you are on private ground they can move you on. And yes they really do swagger believe me.
Forgetting all that for a moment what made me uneasy was that once beyond security in the Departure Lounge, they were still visible "patrolling", presumably in case someone attempts to open a forbidden bottle of water. If it is considered necessary to have a pair of armed Police officers swaggering about with major weaponery BEYOND secutiy, we might as well all go home.
I DON'T FEEL REASSURED.
It is worth remembering that due to the small size of the concourse at LCY the armed Police are way more noticeable and since they are usually always two of them scowling from the top of the stairs to departures, they are actually quite intimidating. And well they know it too.........
Just my honest opinion.
Contrast this with London City where the policemen with guns come down on any spotters like a ton of bricks, in my view partly because they have little else to do and as you are on private ground they can move you on. And yes they really do swagger believe me.
Forgetting all that for a moment what made me uneasy was that once beyond security in the Departure Lounge, they were still visible "patrolling", presumably in case someone attempts to open a forbidden bottle of water. If it is considered necessary to have a pair of armed Police officers swaggering about with major weaponery BEYOND secutiy, we might as well all go home.
I DON'T FEEL REASSURED.
It is worth remembering that due to the small size of the concourse at LCY the armed Police are way more noticeable and since they are usually always two of them scowling from the top of the stairs to departures, they are actually quite intimidating. And well they know it too.........
Just my honest opinion.
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Europe
Posts: 2,175
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts