Jersey-2

[akerosid]

There is to be an announcement at the airport at around lunchtime tomorrow.

I can't begin to say how thrilled I am at this news. It's not only a huge economic boost to the island, but also a major psychological and morale boost. Jersey now plugs into one of the biggest range of intercontinental air links around the world and while we may have some misgivings about LHR as an airport, it's still a hugely important intercontinental hub and having access to it will greatly enhance Jersey's attractiveness as a business destination, tourism centre, not to mention facilitating the travel plans of Jersey residents.

Wonderful, wonderful news.

[J-Guy]

As I said earlier, it is exceptional news. After 7 years without the route I didn’t think we would be gaining Heathrow back any time soon. When bmi were first approached back in 2000 they were not prepared to take on the route, so I think it says a lot about the new policies and mentality in place at the airport and government.

Looking at the flights, the timings are good. There isn’t normally an early arrival into the island from London before 9.45, which is not the best the best option for business passengers. One issue, however, how do we think this will impact upon Gatwick passenger numbers?

The first big news from this drive to get new routes... hopefully Heathrow will be succeed and hopefully more to routes come in the future!

[jerboy]

I think the LGW numbers will continue to hold their own, although there obviously will be an effect (and we may lose a rotation or two) I believe that BA in particular has a strong enough customer base in the Island to ensure things don't go too far downhill.

BA announced recently that they would increase the number of rotations per day to LGW would increase from 5 to 6, so there is obviously the market there.

All the best to bmi... and good luck!

[J-Guy]

I see that flights to Heathrow are now available to on-line and are quite reasonably priced. A trip to London may be in order

One think that caught my attention, however, is that Saturday evening flights and Sunday morning flights are to be operated by bmi regional, this would suggest that flights would be flown by an ERJ 145?

Not that this is a problem, demand will be lower during these periods, but if this is correct then the first flight would not be with the A319.

[GBALU53]

Well J-Guy

Interesting one that you have quoted that British Midland Regional will be doing the Sat Pm and the Sun AM flight.

Interesting to know how you found that one as all the information points to the Airbus 319 and no mension of any regional connection.

Was this going to be part of the package being signed for today or were they keeping this bit quite.

How much more is hiden in getting all this up and running?

There seems to be the odd smelly rat hidden amoung all of this

[Riverboat]

A bit surprising that BMI should use some very valuable morning and evening LHR slots for Jersey flights. Well done to them, and well done to Julian Green and Alan Maclean in Jersey for no doubt doing everything they could to get the service.

BMI are really adding some credibility to Jersey, and if you add Thomsonfly's new LUT-JER operation, on top of CVT-JER and DSA-JER, they too are doing a good job for Jersey. Makes GBALU's postings about Guernsey getting the better of Jersey seem a tad out of date. (But I recognise that G-BALU seems to have the inside track on most things Jersey).

Whether a carrier will want to pick up the STN operation, now there are daily flights to/from both LUT and LHR, which were not there last year when Atlantic Express started the service, is surely doubtful.

[GBALU53]

Riverboat

The Guernsey States going forward with routes are routes that have never been there in the first place.

With Jersey is a differant story when you look back into the past

You quoted Heathrow
Luton
Coventry
Stansted
Cardiff
All these routes are ones that stopped for a number of reasons the only new route is the Doncaster.

A new route means never tried before but the States don,t get the picture.

The Heathrow and the Paris that Flybe wanted to start again are routes that were dropped.

In the past Flybe was the last operator on the Luton with one a day in the summer with a BAE146 300 which equaled 110 seats each way Thomson will be 20 or 30 seats more but will the route work?

It didn,t work for Flybe due to a number of reason so why should it work for Thomson?.

The Stansted route was better suited for connecting flights that have built up over the years, if the timeings are good it can work, the only reason AEX stopped was due to company restructing with the sale, from what I can make out has not happened.

The whole culture has changed for flights to the Islands and you can,t turn the clock back the only way new routes or trying to restart old one are with small aircraft like ATR and Dash 300 aircraft but they only have a certain catchment area>

[Brown Bess]

Once all the celebrations have finished, I hope that Alan Maclean can sit back and reflect on what he has done, in getting BMI to operate from Heathrow.

The two flights per day are probably just enough to take the profit away from the existing two carriers to LGW, BA and Flybe.

BMI are not even using an Airbus at the weekend, hardly a lifeline service, no this service is aimed at business travel only, and slot protecting?

I agree with Flybe's comments, giving BMI a subsidy on the route doesn't give competition on a level playing field. By all means the States should encourage other Airlines to come to Jersey , however Heathrow is a London Airport like STN, LGW and LCY, so the 'new route' is in direct competition with the existing carriers. Surely a reduction in landing fees for all operators is a far better route to take.

I do hope we are not about to see what happened on the St Malo route, and see the original operators move away forever.

[akerosid]

Frankly, I don't think Flybe is in much of a position to complain, given that it was more than happy, not just to accept a subsidy, but to demand a greater subsidy than the States was willing to give. LHR, as Flybe knows well (let's not forget that before it sold the slots to QF, it tried to sell them to the States), is not "just any old airport", but the world's busiest international airport and it is a hugely important economic boost to the island. The reality is that there are only so many flights a place like JER can get, so it's important that those it chooses are going to deliver the greatest possible economic boost. In other words, it's not so much a subsidy as an investment.

What is comes down to is a realisation that free market economics is great if you're London, New York, Singapore or Hong Kong, but for the likes of Jersey, it needs to hustle and it needs to provide incentives. Flybe can bleat as much as it wants, but it must know the importance of LHR to Jersey.

As for slot sitting, bmi has committed to operating the new route for three years and since the timings for the JER flights are hardly conducive to use on long haul flights (7.10am departure to New York or Mumbai ... anyone?), it should be relatively safe. As long as people use it - and really, that's up to the Jersey punters. If you don't use it, you lose it ...

As to what aircraft bmi is using, who cares? If it's a 50 seater Embraer, I can live with that, as can most business travellers. Given that the 50 seater we've been taking to LHR for the past 7 years takes longer to get to LHR from LGW than the EMB-145 will take to fly from JER, I'm not pushed.

[EI-BUD]

Bmi and Subsidy

Aeroskid, I agree with most of what you say re: a subsidy to bmi from Jersey, and the whole issue of Flybe complaining. It will be interesting to look back in say six months and see how the overall passenger numbers have changed. Ie will the market grow, or will it simply be a transfer of numbers from one route to another.

It was most unfair that JER lost the LHR route before and I remember the whole debate at the time and the fears that the Jersey business community had. AS was the case in the IOM. I hope that the business grows .

Flybe have been slow to grow their JER business and the island has been quite dependant on them for new business, I would have expected BE to be taking iniatives on the Island for growth as it or certainly was a very important airport for them as its name use to reflect. JEA.

[GBALU53]

C.I.Connection

Flybe lost the plot for the Channel Islands when J.F came on the scene.

The big question is does Flybe Channel Islands fit in well with the rest of the network?

[Brown Bess]

Quite agree, complaining is what Flybe do best. They haven't really been interested in the Channel Islands since they moved to Exeter in 1985, and subsequently changed the name to remove 'Jersey'.

I was more worried about BA disappearing. They seem to be , yet again, stopping various domestic routes around the country, and unless it continues to be well supported like it is at present, I think they will just disappear.

Could we do without BA? Guernsey have, do you think they are served well by existing carriers?

[akerosid]

BA at LGW, generally

I think the real question is BA's future at LGW; we know that Willie Walsh has given them about a year to shape up - or else; my expectation is that the airline will ultimately decide to up stakes and leave, particularly if an Open Skies deal is done. Then, BA will be allowed to move most of its LGW long haul flights to LHR (and no doubt shaft a few short haul, including domestic). At that stage, short haul flights won't be of much interest as connecting flights, so they'll gradually wind it down.

Let's be honest, although (in my experience) the BA 735s are perfectly nice aircraft, they're not getting any younger and I simply can't see the airline investing billions in new Airbuses for what are essentially "surplus to requirement " routes. On top of that, you have the issue of BA's GB Airways franchise. WW is apparently against franchises and there have been various rumours about the future of this.

What it comes down to is that ultimately, BA will not be flying JER-LGW. It may not be this year or next year, but it will happen. And thank goodness, for once, we've preempted what could have been a serious blow to our air links by getting back the LHR route.

[JobsaGoodun]

As an outsider looking in I have to say that i'm somewhat suprised by the comments of some on here. Whilst I am pleased that JER has its LHR route back, this is being supplied by an airline that would appear to have lost its way over the recent years.
BMI are slot sitting and nothing more, as soon as a viable long haul route comes along they will ditch JER as BA did some 7yrs ago. You don't use 49seat aircraft on expensive LHR slots unless you have to!
BA will stay in JER if the sums work, and whilst the route may be profitable for them, if the entire LGW business isn't then it may only be a matter of time before they go!
Flybe have provided regional routes to JER for years now, LGW/BHX/EXT have all been in existance for well over 10yrs so I am baffled by comments claiming that

Flybe lost the plot for the Channel Islands when J.F came on the scene

.....how exactly???
Equally,

Flybe have been slow to grow their JER business

Not only have Flybe provided consistency on routes to LGW/BHX and EXT but they have also enhanced the network with direct flights to EDI, SOU and BRS but also seasonal flights to LTN,NWI,NCL,SEN,GLA,LPL and BHD.
I would hazzard a guess that if the Jersey licensing authorities allowed an open skies policy in line with the rest of the UK, providing a platform and opportunity for growth rather than the antiquated licensing system in place then Flybe would have expanded onto some routes faster than they have in the past.
JER does not have limitless numbers of people wishing to travel and a fixed population will always dictate growth. The catchment area is the same now as it always has been and only an increase in the local porpulation will feed more growth. Unless JER begins to attract vistors in a new way, changes and additions in air services will always be slow to come.

[GBALU53]

Well Jobsagoodan

To clear up some Flybe schedules.

The Luton has been dropped due to the new Tompson daily flight all though Flybe was only been doing a saturday flight in the summer for a number of year (Package type flight)?

The Newcastle Southend and Liverpool are saturday only in the summer is that a real schedule or almost a package type flight.

I might be incorrect but there was talk of if it has not already the dropping of the Southend

I understand some of your comments with Flybe losing there way was partly to do with the local aurthorities and having to look else where.

People must look back and understand some of the managment in there past life on there performances to make your own picture.

It might show you a thing or two on how well or not so well companies are performing.

[EI-BUD]

Ba & Lgw

True for you Aeroskid. LGW cant have a big future with Ba if we consider the rationale that WW has used to axe BAConnect. He said that the routes were more conducive to LCCs, as obviously many many of same routes were in competition with LCC rivals .So the same would be true for LGW with EZY being so big there! Time will tell.

[EI-BUD]

Jobagoodun

I agree with a lot of what you said in your post. However, although not frequently on the Island of Jer i do keep up to speed on the latest happenings via the forum, various websites and media and timetables etc. From what I can take from the forum, Flybe sound like they are calling the shots. the noise that I heard about there reaction to possible competition from Blue Islands etc, does not sound great. They are very successful. IF they were so true to Jer why did they give up the LHR slots originally. They never expected a new entrant.

As for the LHR route glad to see it but I am doubtful that the market will grow overall. What they do need is LCCs to stimulate inbound traffic IMO. LHR will offer the existing customer base another option. Its not technically new business as London is well served at the moment.

Flybe have to deliver profits and JER is probably a regular earner. I dont think anything exciting will come from BE in Jer anytime soon, Why dont they go for the CDG route when JER is offering incentives, afterall if there low fares policy is working why could it not work on CDG JER?

[jerboy]

Originally Posted by EI-BUD

afterall if there low fares policy is working why could it not work on CDG JER?

BE are not low fares... they have very clever marketing which makes people believe they are. I travel between LON and JER a lot and the vast majority of the time BA are cheaper. BA will look after you in a delay, and you get a complementary refreshment service even on a 35min flight (OK its gone downhill slightly but it's still a far cry from BE).
The real problem, concering CDG lies within the general travelling public, if the majority booked through a travel agent JER-CDG may work, as travel agents value CDG on a similar level to LHR with the number of connections available and ease of those connections. However with more and more people booking their flights online people do not view CDG in the same way as LHR (most of us here know a thing or two about aviation and can tell you that CDG is as good, or better, than LHR - but try telling that to Joe Public). There are also far more business links with London than there are with Paris. I think, and hope, Julian Green and the States have realised this and decided not to give BE the money they were asking for, especially as it was way more than the original publicised amount.
I may be slightly biased against BE as I have had a few bad experiences with them, but I think that (re)introducing a new major carrier into the island with *A connections is far more valuable than a BE service to CDG with extremely limited connections.
Again, only time will tell, but as bmi have agreed to operate the route for three years we will gain a true picture as to how valuable LHR is to JER, and whether we can cope with a 9-10 x daily LGW service.

[akerosid]

I agree with what you say Jerboy; I booked a flight with bmi for the new LHR route and it was very straightforward: select flights, book ticket. Done, full stop. No extra for this, more for that, as Flybe does; kind of reminds me of the innkeeper in Les Miserables -
Two per cent for looking in the mirror twice
Here a little slice, there a little cut
Three percent for sleeping with the window shut
When it comes to fixing prices
There are a lot of tricks he knows
How it all increases, all them bits and pieces
Jesus! It's amazing how it grows!
With regard to CDG, if the States absolutely has to give subsidies for a particular route, I would like them to ensure that it "ticks all the boxes" and ensures that the payback for the local economy is maximised; sure, local tourist traffic is important, as is the business traffic, but BE wasn't willing to interline, which would have enabled direct connections to AF's worldwide network; an operation with one of AF's partner airlines could have (may eventually?) achieve that.

[GBALU53]

Will another route good

With the staes trying to get new routes do freight operators come into this area as well.

With a freight route the Airport should support new income?

Two large freight forwarders are in the Island shorlty to sign from what I understand a new contract.

The contract is for a Boeing 737 from Cologne via Rennes to Jersey daystop and return in the evening I am lead to beleive five days a week starting the end of March.

The main reason to bring this up is the way the states like to annoce a new route all be it freight,could it be at the loss of one of the freighters that operate at the moment.

SO is this an additional freight flights into Jersey?

As we have seen in the past the true pictures are not told, with Jersey trying to get more routes it is all very well but at what cost to some one and it will not be to the Airline who is trying to do new routes but the poor old tax payer.

At the end of the trading year the airport accounts might look very sad .

With the summer schedules starting in less than eight weeks time the possibilty to get new routes now are dwindling very fast as time is running out for this year to get new routes up and running.