ABERDEEN
Fit like min?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Heathrow
So with the IAG purchase of bmi seemingly a done deal, unless Virgin complain or the Competition Commission raises objections (which I doubt) this will see BA with a monopoly on the LHR route again after almost 8yrs.
Will BA leave the route as is on their own freqs & drop the bmi freqs; add rotations, or add capacity with more 321s?
Depends on how successful the bmi route was I guess. It is presently all-ERJ I believe, but I'm not sure how full they are, nor how high-yielding their route is to make it worth BA's while to do for ABZ (on a lesser scale) what they will do on the GLA-LHR route.
At some point the ERJs will come off the LHR route I would have thought, be it at IAG/BA's behest, or the investors that are to take over bmiR. I casn't see the status quo lingering into S12.
Any thoughts on the future of ABZ-LHR, especially with the increasing competition from AMS, CDG & now FRA? Is LHR still as relevant as it used to be?
Will BA leave the route as is on their own freqs & drop the bmi freqs; add rotations, or add capacity with more 321s?
Depends on how successful the bmi route was I guess. It is presently all-ERJ I believe, but I'm not sure how full they are, nor how high-yielding their route is to make it worth BA's while to do for ABZ (on a lesser scale) what they will do on the GLA-LHR route.
At some point the ERJs will come off the LHR route I would have thought, be it at IAG/BA's behest, or the investors that are to take over bmiR. I casn't see the status quo lingering into S12.
Any thoughts on the future of ABZ-LHR, especially with the increasing competition from AMS, CDG & now FRA? Is LHR still as relevant as it used to be?
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Operating into LHR has become so expensive that you can only begin to make money using a minimum of a 150 seater jet. I am not sure there is enought business traffic into Heathrow to justify 2 airlines running 319 sized aircraft twice or three times daily from ABZ.
The Embraers were more or less being used by Mainline to protect the slots, and if the flights made a bit of money then it was a bonus.
The Embraers were more or less being used by Mainline to protect the slots, and if the flights made a bit of money then it was a bonus.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Israel, Kazakhstan, Spain
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my opinion as a business traveller it does not make sense for BA to drop Aberdeen - there is a market for the ABZ-LON route. I have travelled twice in the last two weeks (once weekend and once mid week) on either full or fairly full flights in both directions - paying in excess of $700 (return) for the pleasure for getting down to Heathrow (fares are similar with BMI).
Whilst companies are trying to push video conferencing, resticting business class travel in order to rationalise costs, people are still travelling; and the oil industry is not currently in recession - unlike other industries.
Also remember what BA did with Glasgow - BMI pulled out and BA are talking of 67 flights per week now. Obviously Aberdeen will not get the same attention, but in my opinion BA will maintain current schedules and probably increase capacity by switching 319s with 320s and 320s with 321s.
Whilst companies are trying to push video conferencing, resticting business class travel in order to rationalise costs, people are still travelling; and the oil industry is not currently in recession - unlike other industries.
Also remember what BA did with Glasgow - BMI pulled out and BA are talking of 67 flights per week now. Obviously Aberdeen will not get the same attention, but in my opinion BA will maintain current schedules and probably increase capacity by switching 319s with 320s and 320s with 321s.
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: London
Posts: 7,072
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Exactly.
The BA LHR flights are full of oil field trash traveling on full fare tickets at ++£ 480 return
BA always claim they don't make any money but the business Lounge is always packed (remember th edays when it was a tiny room next to the Gents?)
It'll be the last place they cut flights to as they pick up all the interlining traffic to the States, Africa and the Far east. Even the sudden expansion of FSU and E European staff working offshore from ABZ means lots of lovely customers most og whom don't worry about prices
The BA LHR flights are full of oil field trash traveling on full fare tickets at ++£ 480 return
BA always claim they don't make any money but the business Lounge is always packed (remember th edays when it was a tiny room next to the Gents?)
It'll be the last place they cut flights to as they pick up all the interlining traffic to the States, Africa and the Far east. Even the sudden expansion of FSU and E European staff working offshore from ABZ means lots of lovely customers most og whom don't worry about prices
Chieftan o'the Pudden Race
Join Date: Nov 1997
Location: Scotland usually, and often other parts of Europe
Age: 55
Posts: 826
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
There is no suggestion that BA would close the ABZ-LHR route.
The problem is, if IAG close the bmi deal, that there would not be any competition on any Scotland - LHR routes, and as already witnessed, the prices can then go through the roof. I know the Scottish Government has already raised this concern with the regulators.
The problem is, if IAG close the bmi deal, that there would not be any competition on any Scotland - LHR routes, and as already witnessed, the prices can then go through the roof. I know the Scottish Government has already raised this concern with the regulators.
Join Date: May 2003
Location: Israel, Kazakhstan, Spain
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
If it was not for the Oilfield Trash Dyce would not exist or would exist on state subsidies.
Besides, not so many moons ago you had no alternative other than BA to fly to London. Both BMI and BA charge more or less the same fares. You have alternatives such as EasyJet (to LGW & LTN) as well as FlyBe (LGW).
If you live in Glasgow or Newcastle BA is keeping the route open to Heathrow. There is only competition (of a sort) from ABZ, MAN & EDI. If both BA and BMI charge the same - in reality where is the competition ? In reality UK domestic fares are already through the roof, and will always be. I don´t say the situation is correct but you need to either put up or shut up.
Even if a new airline, or Branson took over BMI´s slots, etc and chose to fly UK domestic, the situation would not change. It´s commercial sense.
Or does the Scottish government plan to do a Nigerian Government on BA?
Besides, not so many moons ago you had no alternative other than BA to fly to London. Both BMI and BA charge more or less the same fares. You have alternatives such as EasyJet (to LGW & LTN) as well as FlyBe (LGW).
If you live in Glasgow or Newcastle BA is keeping the route open to Heathrow. There is only competition (of a sort) from ABZ, MAN & EDI. If both BA and BMI charge the same - in reality where is the competition ? In reality UK domestic fares are already through the roof, and will always be. I don´t say the situation is correct but you need to either put up or shut up.
Even if a new airline, or Branson took over BMI´s slots, etc and chose to fly UK domestic, the situation would not change. It´s commercial sense.
Or does the Scottish government plan to do a Nigerian Government on BA?
Fit like min?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
KLM & Amsterdam
While LHR continues to be debated (& who suffered a drop in overall domestic pax last month) I note the comments of the ABZ MD, who confirms in the local press that KLM are to introduce a 6th rotation in 2012 between here & AMS. Presumably people are finding travelling to AMS, CDG etc more beneficial to link up with onward connections than heading to LHR - albeit I don't doubt LHR will remain an important route...as long as it is retained by BA.
Only gap in the AMS schedule I can think of is between the afternoon arrival (~1550) & the nightstopper...so a rotation perhaps at teatime/early evening.
Good to see pax nos. continue to rise here, although you wonder for how much longer if all the doom & gloom continues. I suspect it is more the intl traffic rising than the domestics?
I saw an ad in the press last week for an additional aircraft refueller for ABZ, so someone is expecting growth somewhere.
Only gap in the AMS schedule I can think of is between the afternoon arrival (~1550) & the nightstopper...so a rotation perhaps at teatime/early evening.
Good to see pax nos. continue to rise here, although you wonder for how much longer if all the doom & gloom continues. I suspect it is more the intl traffic rising than the domestics?
I saw an ad in the press last week for an additional aircraft refueller for ABZ, so someone is expecting growth somewhere.
Last edited by Richard Taylor; 12th Nov 2011 at 20:49. Reason: missed a bit!
Fit like min?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
xraydice, interesting post. Do you mean on a schedule route basis again (they are allegedly looking at "the regions" again) or just to service IT flights for some of the Tour Operators? I couldn't see them returning to ABZ to fly a schedule service like they used to from/to AGP as it didn't work last time.
TCX were certainly busy out of ABZ this summer, especially early & late in the season. But if MON are simply replacing TCX on IT ops, would you need an additional refueller, assuming the same/similar number of flights?
I wondered if it was related to the "Jet2 at ABZ" rumour that had been doing the rounds earlier. Or had that rumour died down?
Meanwhile, part of the Scottish Govt's report following the First Minister's recent sojourn to the ME:
"On Thursday, he will officially open Heriot-Watt's new campus outside Dubai. He will also discuss expanding air links with the UAE during discussions with executives from Emirates Airline & Group."
A lot of people assume i. a 2nd GLA flight or ii. a new EDI link.
However, & as ABZ Management had previously said one of their goals was a link to DXB, could the talks have been about a link to ABZ...obviously with the likes of a 319/320! Similar to what AZAL do on the route to GYD.
Unlikely? Well, I never thought I'd see a direct link to Baku!!
TCX were certainly busy out of ABZ this summer, especially early & late in the season. But if MON are simply replacing TCX on IT ops, would you need an additional refueller, assuming the same/similar number of flights?
I wondered if it was related to the "Jet2 at ABZ" rumour that had been doing the rounds earlier. Or had that rumour died down?
Meanwhile, part of the Scottish Govt's report following the First Minister's recent sojourn to the ME:
"On Thursday, he will officially open Heriot-Watt's new campus outside Dubai. He will also discuss expanding air links with the UAE during discussions with executives from Emirates Airline & Group."
A lot of people assume i. a 2nd GLA flight or ii. a new EDI link.
However, & as ABZ Management had previously said one of their goals was a link to DXB, could the talks have been about a link to ABZ...obviously with the likes of a 319/320! Similar to what AZAL do on the route to GYD.
Unlikely? Well, I never thought I'd see a direct link to Baku!!
Richard, not to sure of full details, was passing someones desk/reading upside down /noted job spec for aircraft refueller / airline name , didnt break step so as not to arouse suspicion 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: LV
Posts: 2,296
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
"TCX were certainly busy out of ABZ this summer, especially early & late in the season"
Suppose it depends on your definition of "busy" !
3 or 4 flights a week on W-patterns at peak season ?
Suppose it depends on your definition of "busy" !
3 or 4 flights a week on W-patterns at peak season ?
Fit like min?
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: ...
Posts: 2,126
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Aberdeen runway extension 'set to generate millions'
(BBC Website Story)
The £10m extension of Aberdeen Airport's main runway will generate millions of pounds for the local economy, a study has claimed.
The extension was completed in October almost eight months ahead of schedule.
A report for the airport, by York Aviation, predicts an additional 205,000 passengers by 2015.
Airport managing director Derek Provan told Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce the extension put Aberdeen "back on the radar".
He said: "It sends a powerful message to airlines around Europe and beyond that Aberdeen Airport is open for business."
Bob Collier, chief executive of Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce, said: "The chamber's board and council have always backed this project and lobbied strongly for it to go ahead so we very much welcome this report."
---------------------------------------------------
In this climate?? We'll see.
The £10m extension of Aberdeen Airport's main runway will generate millions of pounds for the local economy, a study has claimed.
The extension was completed in October almost eight months ahead of schedule.
A report for the airport, by York Aviation, predicts an additional 205,000 passengers by 2015.
Airport managing director Derek Provan told Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce the extension put Aberdeen "back on the radar".
He said: "It sends a powerful message to airlines around Europe and beyond that Aberdeen Airport is open for business."
Bob Collier, chief executive of Aberdeen and Grampian Chamber of Commerce, said: "The chamber's board and council have always backed this project and lobbied strongly for it to go ahead so we very much welcome this report."
---------------------------------------------------
In this climate?? We'll see.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: under papa 600
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I'm struggling to understand how an extension the size of my drive can cost £10M. After lining up through M9 the nose of the aircraft is on the threshold of where the original runway was.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a joke!
More cock and bull coming from the grossly inept management of ABZ-keep dreaming guys, one day you will all wake up from the dream.....
As i've said before, for the oil capital of Europe, what a disgrace the airport is.
More cock and bull coming from the grossly inept management of ABZ-keep dreaming guys, one day you will all wake up from the dream.....
As i've said before, for the oil capital of Europe, what a disgrace the airport is.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Aberdeen
Posts: 99
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It's not just the runway ext... there is the new taxi-way ext as well as levelling the ground all around the extension in which loads of earth was removed. The approach lights for runway 16 were all moved and replaced. It all adds up. 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: under papa 600
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Indeed .... and I'm still struggling to see £10M worth of work done. Millions of pounds to the local economy - how can anyone make such a bold statement and even measure it assuming they wanted to?
While they are boasting about investment - how much does a new baggage belt cost?
While they are boasting about investment - how much does a new baggage belt cost?
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Sometimes north, sometimes south
Posts: 1,809
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes
on
1 Post
If it was opened in October, how come the bigger declared distances are still not promulgated even in the next AIRAC cycle (15 Dec)? Difficult to see how any airline can officially make use of the longer distances if they're not officially notified.
NS
NS
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Scotland
Posts: 240
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Northsouth wrote:
All the revisions - Declared Distances/New instrument approach charts/revised taxiway arrangements - are detailed within the IAIP Sup 021/2011.
With regards to cost - it was not simply a case of laying some tarmac. Thousands of tonnes of earth had to be removed from the area of the undershoot to comply with the requirements for an obstacle free surface/slopes (see CAP168). Similarly a hillside to the north of the airport had to be landscaped to meet same (look north and notice the missing trees and currently bare earth) A new set of approach lights had to be installed and all the electricals that go with same, drainage, the ILS glidepath aerials/monitors had to be relocated (and again electrical work as well) and then finally, dig out the ground to a considerable depth for the taxiway extension & new bit of runway before laying the foundation layers, intermediate and top surfaces and installing new lighting and control systems. All done in a limited period of working time each day.
The longest aircraft currently using the airport on a regular basis is the Boeing 757 - with a fuselage length of just over 47m, the nose is going to be some distance from the old threshold when lined up.
However, baggage reclaim definitely needs improving
DD
If it was opened in October, how come the bigger declared distances are still not promulgated even in the next AIRAC cycle (15 Dec)? Difficult to see how any airline can officially make use of the longer distances if they're not officially notified.
With regards to cost - it was not simply a case of laying some tarmac. Thousands of tonnes of earth had to be removed from the area of the undershoot to comply with the requirements for an obstacle free surface/slopes (see CAP168). Similarly a hillside to the north of the airport had to be landscaped to meet same (look north and notice the missing trees and currently bare earth) A new set of approach lights had to be installed and all the electricals that go with same, drainage, the ILS glidepath aerials/monitors had to be relocated (and again electrical work as well) and then finally, dig out the ground to a considerable depth for the taxiway extension & new bit of runway before laying the foundation layers, intermediate and top surfaces and installing new lighting and control systems. All done in a limited period of working time each day.
The longest aircraft currently using the airport on a regular basis is the Boeing 757 - with a fuselage length of just over 47m, the nose is going to be some distance from the old threshold when lined up.
However, baggage reclaim definitely needs improving
DD