ABERDEEN
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Scotland
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Richard, you are correct, twas around Nov 2001, and quite a few ex BWA's were with FLT 
Seems to be a disease for Scatsta operators! Will Eastern catch it in the years to come 
2x 146 were sitting over on east apron by lunchtime. I'd be surprised if the loss of the contract was the reason, as it still had time to run, therefore still an income... Me thinks the reasons behind them loosing the contract has something more to do with it a la BWA.
Seems to be a disease for Scatsta operators! Will Eastern catch it in the years to come 2x 146 were sitting over on east apron by lunchtime. I'd be surprised if the loss of the contract was the reason, as it still had time to run, therefore still an income... Me thinks the reasons behind them loosing the contract has something more to do with it a la BWA.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Aberdeen
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Flightline
Three of the flightline 146's impounded at ABZ until payment of landing fees.
Two on Echo apron 1 on charlie.
Shame to see the last of 146's for a while (flying).
Stu...
Two on Echo apron 1 on charlie.
Shame to see the last of 146's for a while (flying).
Stu...
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Scotland
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ABZ Runway extension
RW extension will be to the North. This is frequently the take off direction due to prevailing wind being Easterly or westerley and less commonly from the south . Backtracking will not be a big issue. I have yet to see much of a queue at ABZ at any time of day so doubt there will be much delay. ABZ handles aroun 2M pax and delays are more likley to be caused by intesive Heliops than backtracking A/C. 150m is required for 737-800 apparently. No doubt MO'L and his goons will be the net beneficiaries.
Fit like min?
Join Date: Nov 2004
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oil price
If the oil price keeps slumping $1 here, $2 there at each piece of bad economic news, then there will be no need of a runway extension. 
$40 & the slide continues. If things are grim now, just wait 6mths...
$40 & the slide continues. If things are grim now, just wait 6mths...
Join Date: Nov 2001
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The runway has to be resurfaced in April,so they were going to do the extension at the same time.
I'm not convinced about your doom and gloom theory.Last tuesday/wednesday were very busy,especially the helis.If there is a slow down then it hasn't happened at Dice Int yet.
I'm not convinced about your doom and gloom theory.Last tuesday/wednesday were very busy,especially the helis.If there is a slow down then it hasn't happened at Dice Int yet.
Join Date: Aug 2000
Location: Scotland
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"Cash Cow"
It has been officially confirmed today that Aberdeen has been used by the BAA as a "Cash Cow" and been deprived of investment for over 20 years. The Competition Commission has issued its Provisional Decision on Remedies in its investigation into BAA Airport Markets.
From the report: (My emboldening)
"Our analysis of capital expenditure relative to EBITDA at Aberdeen over the 20 years to 2006/07 compared with that of other BAA airports suggested a significant lack of development. Projections for capital expenditure for the next ten years for Aberdeen were also comparatively modest. Aeronautical revenue per passenger and levels of profitability were high relative to other BAA airports. We also compared prices at Aberdeen with those in force at airports where we were able to observe competition. This comparison showed that in 2006 and 2007, Aberdeen’s average net revenue per passenger was higher than that of virtually all non-BAA airports we looked at and also that it was higher than all BAA airports except Heathrow and Southampton."
DD
From the report: (My emboldening)
"Our analysis of capital expenditure relative to EBITDA at Aberdeen over the 20 years to 2006/07 compared with that of other BAA airports suggested a significant lack of development. Projections for capital expenditure for the next ten years for Aberdeen were also comparatively modest. Aeronautical revenue per passenger and levels of profitability were high relative to other BAA airports. We also compared prices at Aberdeen with those in force at airports where we were able to observe competition. This comparison showed that in 2006 and 2007, Aberdeen’s average net revenue per passenger was higher than that of virtually all non-BAA airports we looked at and also that it was higher than all BAA airports except Heathrow and Southampton."
DD
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Also if you look at capital investment and SOU it has been scaled back to the extent they offer a metal shed to allow some flybe locos to the local area and siphon most of the traffic up to London and er....BAA Heathrow / Gatwick.
Join Date: Dec 2000
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If SOU has a 'metal shed' then ABZ has a slightly bigger 'metal shed'!
As for the lack of investment at ABZ - thought it was pretty obvious or is it just me being cynical?
As for the lack of investment at ABZ - thought it was pretty obvious or is it just me being cynical?
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Join Date: Nov 2004
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Can't get a flight from your local BAA Scottish Airport? Well at least you can BUY all the latest gifts for Xmas before jetting off...to London...or Sumburgh...
Who needs to FLY anywhere in a Credit Crunch? Just turn up at the metal shed & get all your Xmas goods...
I'm sure the BAA are promoting the destination to prospective customers...Boots...WH Smith...
Anyone know what the late night Hercs were all about?
Who needs to FLY anywhere in a Credit Crunch? Just turn up at the metal shed & get all your Xmas goods...
I'm sure the BAA are promoting the destination to prospective customers...Boots...WH Smith...
Anyone know what the late night Hercs were all about?
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Hercs
The first was a weather diversion, EGDL 50 metres fog, although why Aberdeen was chosen is a bit of a mystery (possibly the nearest place their handling agent is available 24hrs). Second was a compassionate ex Hanover; the local infantry Regiment are posted in that part of Germany.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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As posted in the GSM thread
Well what a great start to the New Year. Had flights booked from ABZ to LPA for 9th February with Globespan. Held back from booking accommodation in case they pulled the flight. Booked my accommodation through Airmiles (Thomsons) on Xmas Eve. Email received today from Globespan. Yes my gut feeling was correct, they have cancelled the flight from ABZ - LPA due to lack of demand so I am now £275 out of pocket as into 50% cancellation charges with Thomsons and travel insurance does not cover.
I will NEVER EVER book a low cost airline again!
Well what a great start to the New Year. Had flights booked from ABZ to LPA for 9th February with Globespan. Held back from booking accommodation in case they pulled the flight. Booked my accommodation through Airmiles (Thomsons) on Xmas Eve. Email received today from Globespan. Yes my gut feeling was correct, they have cancelled the flight from ABZ - LPA due to lack of demand so I am now £275 out of pocket as into 50% cancellation charges with Thomsons and travel insurance does not cover.
I will NEVER EVER book a low cost airline again!
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Makes you wonder if airlines consider it worth serving ABZ. GSM have tried to introduce several flights now but had to pull them through lack of demand. That's SSH & now LPA pulled to join the others that GSM considered the year before last then pulled.
No wonder EZY & the like are not interested in flying to ABZ. Aircraft the locos fly are too large for the ABZ market in general, even Flybe struggle with a 76 seater, NCL route as an example.
For an ABZ route, it tends to be aimed at the business market, but you need to offer a business schedule at least (ie. morning/evening flights at the very least) but then you may have too many seats on offer. And what fares do you offer? Are the fares higher due to having to incur higher costs at BAA-owned ABZ?
I criticize the BAA frequently, but it must be frustrating trying to get airlines to introduce new routes. When they get an airline to do so, the demand simply isn't there, despite business leaders saying they need direct flights - bmi Reg pulling Brussels/Amsterdam/Kristiansand previously as three more examples; not even an E135/145 could make the routes work for them.
It's almost as if only a 30-seater or less is the only thing that will work for many ABZ routes & even then it's marginal unless like Eastern, the fares are high enough. And who is going to buy an aircraft especially tailoired for ABZ? Indeed, are there any new aircraft in that seat range? JS41 not made anymore, Saab 340 not made anymore.
So is the BAA solely to blame? Or the airlines for either not doing their research, or not giving routes the chance to bed in, or even start.
I think we simply do not have a sufficient catchment area & NE is set in its ways. We are too dependent on the oil industry, & many people still find it preferrable to fly from GLA or EDI for leisure routes, which frustrates the hell out of me.
People keep talking about making this area attractive to inbound tourists, but what are those in charge of promoting this area doing to achieve this? Bugger all it would appear. You may hate the city, but the countryside around is surely some of the most attractive in Scotland?
Sorry, bit of a rant, but 5-6m pax by 2030? A pipe-dream at the moment. Usual ABZ - one step forward, 5 back.
Should I be so gloomy??
No wonder EZY & the like are not interested in flying to ABZ. Aircraft the locos fly are too large for the ABZ market in general, even Flybe struggle with a 76 seater, NCL route as an example.
For an ABZ route, it tends to be aimed at the business market, but you need to offer a business schedule at least (ie. morning/evening flights at the very least) but then you may have too many seats on offer. And what fares do you offer? Are the fares higher due to having to incur higher costs at BAA-owned ABZ?
I criticize the BAA frequently, but it must be frustrating trying to get airlines to introduce new routes. When they get an airline to do so, the demand simply isn't there, despite business leaders saying they need direct flights - bmi Reg pulling Brussels/Amsterdam/Kristiansand previously as three more examples; not even an E135/145 could make the routes work for them.
It's almost as if only a 30-seater or less is the only thing that will work for many ABZ routes & even then it's marginal unless like Eastern, the fares are high enough. And who is going to buy an aircraft especially tailoired for ABZ? Indeed, are there any new aircraft in that seat range? JS41 not made anymore, Saab 340 not made anymore.
So is the BAA solely to blame? Or the airlines for either not doing their research, or not giving routes the chance to bed in, or even start.
I think we simply do not have a sufficient catchment area & NE is set in its ways. We are too dependent on the oil industry, & many people still find it preferrable to fly from GLA or EDI for leisure routes, which frustrates the hell out of me.
People keep talking about making this area attractive to inbound tourists, but what are those in charge of promoting this area doing to achieve this? Bugger all it would appear. You may hate the city, but the countryside around is surely some of the most attractive in Scotland?
Sorry, bit of a rant, but 5-6m pax by 2030? A pipe-dream at the moment. Usual ABZ - one step forward, 5 back.
Should I be so gloomy??
Join Date: Nov 2005
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Hi Richard
you and everybody connected to ABZ has every right to feel frustrated in the planning of ABZ airport.
As you say airlines are not intrested in ABZ because years back the limitations surrounding the airport ie opening times runway restrictions to name but a few.
The blame soley lies with the council you are right when the BAA own the airport but planning has to be put through the local council and this is where the problems.
Aberdeen airport would be better placed in another situation out of the city where there are not that many restrictions where to many people complain about noise even with the more modern airlines with som much more quieter engines.
You can have an airport full with Bae146 airliners and still people would complain about the noise and their time were classed the worlds most quietest aircraft.
So my point is not the airlines nor the BAA are at fault but with Aberdeen Council were planning decssions take a a decade and with in the time airlines fall out of inetrest and the BAA do not want to invest with Aberdeen.
Aberdeen Airport would be better placed at an ex military base such as Lossiemouth or Leuchars, but would would need a hell of lot of investors and intrested airlines which in my opinion would not be such a problem.
This is only my opinion of the situation with ABZ and don't come ruuning after me about this.
Have a nice weekend
PB
you and everybody connected to ABZ has every right to feel frustrated in the planning of ABZ airport.
As you say airlines are not intrested in ABZ because years back the limitations surrounding the airport ie opening times runway restrictions to name but a few.
The blame soley lies with the council you are right when the BAA own the airport but planning has to be put through the local council and this is where the problems.
Aberdeen airport would be better placed in another situation out of the city where there are not that many restrictions where to many people complain about noise even with the more modern airlines with som much more quieter engines.
You can have an airport full with Bae146 airliners and still people would complain about the noise and their time were classed the worlds most quietest aircraft.
So my point is not the airlines nor the BAA are at fault but with Aberdeen Council were planning decssions take a a decade and with in the time airlines fall out of inetrest and the BAA do not want to invest with Aberdeen.
Aberdeen Airport would be better placed at an ex military base such as Lossiemouth or Leuchars, but would would need a hell of lot of investors and intrested airlines which in my opinion would not be such a problem.
This is only my opinion of the situation with ABZ and don't come ruuning after me about this.
Have a nice weekend
PB
Join Date: Dec 2000
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Whilst it took a while for the council to be dragged into the modern world, they can not be held responsible for any current or future deficiencies since night ops are allowed now. Furthermore it is still debatable if there will be sufficient demand for airlines to make use of any runway extension.
In short the airport is not fit for purpose when it is busy. The crude saying 'you can't polish a turd' ties in nicely to the endless renovations that take place in the terminal which never really seem to tackle the root problems anyway. You often still can't get a seat when it is busy and baggage reclaim areas are still a rugby scrum at the best of times.
In short the airport is not fit for purpose when it is busy. The crude saying 'you can't polish a turd' ties in nicely to the endless renovations that take place in the terminal which never really seem to tackle the root problems anyway. You often still can't get a seat when it is busy and baggage reclaim areas are still a rugby scrum at the best of times.
Join Date: Nov 2001
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The article is about GSM pulling the plug on Gran Canaria.Nothing about pulling out of ABZ.It will be interesting to see how Dalaman goes,since Turkey isn't in the euro-zone,and looks like being popular this year.If GSM stops that one,then there is a big problem.
Join Date: Mar 2007
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Sorry just re-read my one liner and realise it could have read re them pulling out of ABZ completely. I phrased that badly and it should have read about pulling the ABZ to LPA. Apologies.
Join Date: Jul 2008
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Why are people surprised at lack of uptake for new holiday routes. The demand and numbers of passengers is simply not here.
70% of Scotlands population reside in the Central belt. At a push 5% reside in Aberdeenshire so already there is a massive difference in demand for air travel based purely on numbers of people living in the locality.
Given the choice and lower price available for holiday flights from GLA and EDI there are a significant number of people travelling to fly from these airports from Aberdeenshire but I would hazard a guess at 0 passengers doing the reverse from the Central belt.
How many people do you think want to travel to Kristiansund and Brussels daily to make this kind of route viable?
Take away the oil related business from ABZ and I'm afraid there is very little remaining.
70% of Scotlands population reside in the Central belt. At a push 5% reside in Aberdeenshire so already there is a massive difference in demand for air travel based purely on numbers of people living in the locality.
Given the choice and lower price available for holiday flights from GLA and EDI there are a significant number of people travelling to fly from these airports from Aberdeenshire but I would hazard a guess at 0 passengers doing the reverse from the Central belt.
How many people do you think want to travel to Kristiansund and Brussels daily to make this kind of route viable?
Take away the oil related business from ABZ and I'm afraid there is very little remaining.