SHANNON
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Galway is only 45-50mins from shannon at the moment,get a good run at gort or bypass it by backroads it and it's still easily 45mins,my friends at work live in galway city and they commute every morning to shannon airport,it takes them under the hour and they are in galway city! the airport is nearer to shannon again.
Rebel PPRuNer
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Personally I think the government should forbid t/a ex everywhere but DUB on environmental grounds. Concentrating on DUB would mean larger aircraft with lower seat-mile costs.
The only problem with that theory is that DUB itself is a shambles.
The only problem with that theory is that DUB itself is a shambles.
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Growth of 9.5% at Shannon for the first half of this year according to this mornings Indo. T/Atlantic fell 5pc (as expected with the pull out of American) but short haul grew 16% which is positive. Also looks like Fly Globespan will not be running their Knock to JFK service for the winter.
Join Date: Jan 2007
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Bad news for Knock and for intending transatlantic passengers in the Northwest of Ireland this winter. The Globespan experience shows how difficult it is to develop longhaul services without a strong partner carrier. Thankfully, Shannon' s partners are blue chip airlines (in as much as they exist nowadays) and their commitment for the coming winter season is very reassuring for tourism & business interests on Ireland's Atlantic seaboard.
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MarkD->Would the fuel benefits of larger aircraft from Dublin not be cancelled out by the fuel used in getting people to Dublin when they could have flown from Cork, Shannon etc.
Being Ireland, most people would drive and a single occupancy car makes a plane look very fuel efficient.
Being Ireland, most people would drive and a single occupancy car makes a plane look very fuel efficient.
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Make your mind up!
Personally I think the government should forbid t/a ex everywhere but DUB on environmental grounds. Concentrating on DUB would mean larger aircraft with lower seat-mile costs.
They could always reduce demand from LHR by asking BA to run more flights direct from where people are coming from to where they are going out of places like MAN, BHX, GLA...
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gaelgeoir - actually no contradiction. The cities I listed have 5-10 times more catchment than ORK or SNN. Those cities could support 767/777 when ORK/SNN would struggle to fill 757s and A319s without the stick of government policy forcing operators to find ways of forcing people to use them. LHR is at peak slot capacity and the services I referred to are currently operated by 744s.
840 - you're right. Redirecting international traffic to DUB would have to involve improving rail service between Dublin Airport and the rest of the country in order to make the environmental argument stick. Unfortunately the fact that DART will not serve DUB instead of Metro will enforce a two-change journey on people south of Greater Dublin. Personally I think both Metro and DART (from near Howth) will be needed to manage DUB passenger demand properly.
840 - you're right. Redirecting international traffic to DUB would have to involve improving rail service between Dublin Airport and the rest of the country in order to make the environmental argument stick. Unfortunately the fact that DART will not serve DUB instead of Metro will enforce a two-change journey on people south of Greater Dublin. Personally I think both Metro and DART (from near Howth) will be needed to manage DUB passenger demand properly.
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loss of lhr service, whats next?
the silence from this thread, in light of the pending and actual announcement about ei at snn has been deafening.
so what's next to go?
will they run services from snn through bfs across the pond, or vice versa?
the us customs and border control station will be open in the autumn at snn, in conjunction with the immigration post there, it will be essentially making all flights from snn to the us the same as their own domestic ones . just deplane and pick up your bags. no other delays in the arrivals hall
so what's next to go?
will they run services from snn through bfs across the pond, or vice versa?
the us customs and border control station will be open in the autumn at snn, in conjunction with the immigration post there, it will be essentially making all flights from snn to the us the same as their own domestic ones . just deplane and pick up your bags. no other delays in the arrivals hall
Last edited by beamwidth; 7th Aug 2007 at 14:53.
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How will the customs work? Normally, you pick up your bags before you go through customs. Does that mean that you'll go through customs and then check in? Or will you go through customs without all your bags?
Join Date: Jan 2000
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dont know the logistical ins and outs. i guess there will have to be something prior to the bags going onto the belt. i believe that the old terminal check in area is where its going to be,
does anyone know how this will work?
does anyone know how this will work?
While the cries of doom are ever present since the anouncement of the loss of the LHR service, here's a question ... what's the best replacement?
LHR slots are like hens teeth and so it's unlikey a direct LHR route will be offered
Assuming;
a) with SNN-LGW being served by FR that's the London/SE England market served
b) that the US is covered by direct fights
c) that the main issue is onward connection to/from a major international hub
So, which European international hub airport should SNN be chasing carriers from to ensure onward connectivity ...
How about CityJet/AF from CDG? KLM from AMS?
JAS
LHR slots are like hens teeth and so it's unlikey a direct LHR route will be offered
Assuming;
a) with SNN-LGW being served by FR that's the London/SE England market served
b) that the US is covered by direct fights
c) that the main issue is onward connection to/from a major international hub
So, which European international hub airport should SNN be chasing carriers from to ensure onward connectivity ...
How about CityJet/AF from CDG? KLM from AMS?
JAS
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The problem with CDG is the Ryanair flight to Beauvais. To be viable the route would need to take all existing leisure passengers from that route and add them to the people looking for onward connections.
KLM will have Aer Lingus operating 9 flights a day from Ireland to Amsterdam for them. Would going into Shannon just piss off Aer Lingus and lose them a lot more potential revenue?
Lufthansa to Frankfurt would have slot and aircraft problems, but the real problem here would be the thinness of the route as regards non-connecting passengers.
KLM will have Aer Lingus operating 9 flights a day from Ireland to Amsterdam for them. Would going into Shannon just piss off Aer Lingus and lose them a lot more potential revenue?
Lufthansa to Frankfurt would have slot and aircraft problems, but the real problem here would be the thinness of the route as regards non-connecting passengers.
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I don't think Shannon is viable for Cityjet against FR. FR was the major impact on Shamrock's yield. For me this is an opportunity for Cityjet and Galway, at the end of the day it's still the west and the west does need a loco alternative airport, and SNN's marketing keeps telling us that it's only an hour from GWY making it a viable proposal for the entire region, morning and evening service initially.
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cityjet
RTE are reporting that Cityjet are looking at SNN-CDG at the request of Minister Dempsey.
If it happens, it'll be interesting how FR , through Beauvais, will reply to this, given that they think that SNN should have connectivity with a major hub.
Can see that getting messy
Why are the SAA not courting airlines from a number of different hubs, to see if there's anything stirring.
This idea of just targeting LHR, just smacks of a company that was in relaxo mode: FR would bring all the pax they promised, and they ( SAA ) wouldn't have to bother their arses chasing other airlines/routes. Now, it looks like they are waking up, but they defo need to look further afield!
If it happens, it'll be interesting how FR , through Beauvais, will reply to this, given that they think that SNN should have connectivity with a major hub.
Can see that getting messy
Why are the SAA not courting airlines from a number of different hubs, to see if there's anything stirring.
This idea of just targeting LHR, just smacks of a company that was in relaxo mode: FR would bring all the pax they promised, and they ( SAA ) wouldn't have to bother their arses chasing other airlines/routes. Now, it looks like they are waking up, but they defo need to look further afield!
If it happens, it'll be interesting how FR , through Beauvais, will reply to this
The key question remains unanswered ... is there sufficient onward connection traffic originating in/transiting to Shannon to justify such a service or was the majority of the LHR traffic starting/remainig in the London and SE England area. My suspicion is that it was.
JAS
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JAS, the danger is that FR will just wipe WX out. If a hub is the issue, and if the cited figures are correct, then 90,000 pax p.a. used the LHR for connections. How many of these are business trips, and how many are leisure. This is not a huge market, and given that WX has a C Class bias, they would need to capture all of these pax. It wouldn't take FR long to flood the BVA route with flights cheaper than WX, and mop up all the non corporate market. I dont know what the solution here is.
I dont believe that EI would consider re-instating the SNN-LHR route, without decimating the staff numbers in Shannon.
This is the crux of the problem. Shannon Ground Ops is essentially a 2 shift operation, yet after lunchtime, there are only 2 flghts to be looked after, with a full compliment of staff. Without the LHR, it will have no requirement for staff after the NAT Departures each day. This is where the savings are to be made.
AMS/FRA/CDG would be recognised as major Euro Hubs. The first 2 do not have, as yet, a proximate FR service to take traffic from any prospective service provider.
Maybe there just isnt a market for it!
I dont believe that EI would consider re-instating the SNN-LHR route, without decimating the staff numbers in Shannon.
This is the crux of the problem. Shannon Ground Ops is essentially a 2 shift operation, yet after lunchtime, there are only 2 flghts to be looked after, with a full compliment of staff. Without the LHR, it will have no requirement for staff after the NAT Departures each day. This is where the savings are to be made.
AMS/FRA/CDG would be recognised as major Euro Hubs. The first 2 do not have, as yet, a proximate FR service to take traffic from any prospective service provider.
Maybe there just isnt a market for it!
Maybe there just isnt a market for it!
Shannon Airport had it relativly esasy for years; a sleepy little backwater with the best runway on the island all down to government mismanagement of aviation via their quango Aer Rianta (in what ever name it currently hides under). Removal of the forced stop over follewed by the loss of the LHR link and its a double whammy welcome to the real world wake up call for the SAA/DAA.
Don't get me wrong, I don't wish Shannon or the region any harm, but do object to false skewing of any market which is what SNN benefited from for years.
Welcom to the 21st Century and the free market Shannon, the very best of luck to you.
JAS
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Now who will Aer Lingus pick on next? .....
well ..... guess who .... the Pilots of course ....
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre...breaking76.htm
And will EI pilots lie down and take it .....
No way Jose !!!!! ......
well ..... guess who .... the Pilots of course ....
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre...breaking76.htm
And will EI pilots lie down and take it .....
No way Jose !!!!! ......
Join Date: Jul 2007
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well whatever the rights and wrongs of this commerical decision, i wonder did anyone expect the opening of a base in belfast to ruffle so many feathers, the west coast, the pilots, who's next..