SHANNON
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Ryanair have been very consistent in this at recent events where they have said that they are struggling to make European (non sun and polish) routes work outside if Dublin and cork - they maintain their should be support from Govt to ensure routes are sustainable - in the interest of balanced regional development it would certainly make more sense to support PSO type marginal routes to the likes of Knock and Shannon from France and Germany to deliver tangible benefits for the regions by way of visitors, spend and job creation - I wouldn't hold my breath however .....
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Ryanair have been very consistent in this at recent events where they have said that they are struggling to make European (non sun and polish) routes work outside if Dublin and cork - they maintain their should be support from Govt to ensure routes are sustainable - in the interest of balanced regional development it would certainly make more sense to support PSO type marginal routes to the likes of Knock and Shannon from France and Germany to deliver tangible benefits for the regions by way of visitors, spend and job creation - I wouldn't hold my breath however .....
You realise that Ryanair maintain a fairly poor European market out of Cork? With the only non sun destination being Wroclaw, which is simply paddy polish heading home for a few weeks. They obviously struggle from Cork too.
Ryanair is also not the way to go for expansion, Shannon has the edge of a larger market and should go for other more legacy carriers. Vueling, Wizz Air, Iberia, Flybe etc, previously management have seemed to work with the idea of any growth is good growth, the current management seem much more focused. Ryanair will not be given any more sweetheart deals to temporarily jumpstart growth, that's about as much information I can give away without being commercially sensitive.
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Ryanair is also not the way to go for expansion, Shannon has the edge of a larger market and should go for other more legacy carriers. Vueling, Wizz Air, Iberia, Flybe etc, previously management have seemed to work with the idea of any growth is good growth, the current management seem much more focused. Ryanair will not be given any more sweetheart deals to temporarily jumpstart growth, that's about as much information I can give away without being commercially sensitive.
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Aer lingus do have a decent European network out of cork by way of mainland access and I did mean to include cork in the above
Some very good points you made the current management do seem to be focusing on attracting in the legacy carriers like Lufthansa and SAS but they it's unlikely they will get scale with these guys - on the other hand Shannon's board had targets of 2m plus passengers by 2017 - realistically only one airline can deliver on this that's the reality but passenger growth should not be the be all and end all - a sustainable network of routes should certainly be the aim
Some very good points you made the current management do seem to be focusing on attracting in the legacy carriers like Lufthansa and SAS but they it's unlikely they will get scale with these guys - on the other hand Shannon's board had targets of 2m plus passengers by 2017 - realistically only one airline can deliver on this that's the reality but passenger growth should not be the be all and end all - a sustainable network of routes should certainly be the aim
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You said Ryanair made that comment though, my point is Ryanair don't actually maintain real European operations from Cork.
The passenger target was set by Neil Pakey, and you'll noticed he "resigned". As you've said only one carrier can deliver that, but not sustainably.
I've sadly no involvement with the route development side of things, but if I was to offer my opinion I'd aim for the following over a number of years.
Lufthansa - Year Round, up to daily.
Transavia - Year RoundParis Orly, up to 5pw
Vueling - Barcelona + Rome, 2/3pw.
SAS - Stockholm up to 4pw year round + Copenhagen/Oslo.
Finnair - Helsinki
Aer Lingus Regional - Bristol and Manchester (when Ryanair leave)
If Aer Lingus get CS100's, it wouldn't be completely implausible for a based CS100 operating AGP/FAO as well as a few other scattered European routes.
One to watch will be Norwegian short haul. If Norwegian choose to expand into the Irish market on Shorthaul, then we will be faced with serious competition from Ryanair. Up to now, it's mostly been Ryanair playing the airports off eachother. Norwegian could potentially be an airline that'll give Ryanair a fun for it's money. Is this sustainable growth if it does happen? Probably not.
Best case scenario situations above, take all of that with a large pinch of salt.
The passenger target was set by Neil Pakey, and you'll noticed he "resigned". As you've said only one carrier can deliver that, but not sustainably.
I've sadly no involvement with the route development side of things, but if I was to offer my opinion I'd aim for the following over a number of years.
Lufthansa - Year Round, up to daily.
Transavia - Year RoundParis Orly, up to 5pw
Vueling - Barcelona + Rome, 2/3pw.
SAS - Stockholm up to 4pw year round + Copenhagen/Oslo.
Finnair - Helsinki
Aer Lingus Regional - Bristol and Manchester (when Ryanair leave)
If Aer Lingus get CS100's, it wouldn't be completely implausible for a based CS100 operating AGP/FAO as well as a few other scattered European routes.
One to watch will be Norwegian short haul. If Norwegian choose to expand into the Irish market on Shorthaul, then we will be faced with serious competition from Ryanair. Up to now, it's mostly been Ryanair playing the airports off eachother. Norwegian could potentially be an airline that'll give Ryanair a fun for it's money. Is this sustainable growth if it does happen? Probably not.
Best case scenario situations above, take all of that with a large pinch of salt.
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I could post this under any number of airport threads, but I feel that route development support should tied to a minimum of three, preferably four flights PW. FR's two can only serve the holiday or VFR market who can adjust their journey to the available dates, but this is useless for business PAX. It would encourage airlines with access to 80-120 seat frames, who would know that an unsubsidised Fr would find it more difficult to muscle in.
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You said Ryanair made that comment though, my point is Ryanair don't actually maintain real European operations from Cork.
The passenger target was set by Neil Pakey, and you'll noticed he "resigned". As you've said only one carrier can deliver that, but not sustainably.
I've sadly no involvement with the route development side of things, but if I was to offer my opinion I'd aim for the following over a number of years.
Lufthansa - Year Round, up to daily.
Transavia - Year RoundParis Orly, up to 5pw
Vueling - Barcelona + Rome, 2/3pw.
SAS - Stockholm up to 4pw year round + Copenhagen/Oslo.
Finnair - Helsinki
Aer Lingus Regional - Bristol and Manchester (when Ryanair leave)
If Aer Lingus get CS100's, it wouldn't be completely implausible for a based CS100 operating AGP/FAO as well as a few other scattered European routes.
One to watch will be Norwegian short haul. If Norwegian choose to expand into the Irish market on Shorthaul, then we will be faced with serious competition from Ryanair. Up to now, it's mostly been Ryanair playing the airports off eachother. Norwegian could potentially be an airline that'll give Ryanair a fun for it's money. Is this sustainable growth if it does happen? Probably not.
Best case scenario situations above, take all of that with a large pinch of salt.
The passenger target was set by Neil Pakey, and you'll noticed he "resigned". As you've said only one carrier can deliver that, but not sustainably.
I've sadly no involvement with the route development side of things, but if I was to offer my opinion I'd aim for the following over a number of years.
Lufthansa - Year Round, up to daily.
Transavia - Year RoundParis Orly, up to 5pw
Vueling - Barcelona + Rome, 2/3pw.
SAS - Stockholm up to 4pw year round + Copenhagen/Oslo.
Finnair - Helsinki
Aer Lingus Regional - Bristol and Manchester (when Ryanair leave)
If Aer Lingus get CS100's, it wouldn't be completely implausible for a based CS100 operating AGP/FAO as well as a few other scattered European routes.
One to watch will be Norwegian short haul. If Norwegian choose to expand into the Irish market on Shorthaul, then we will be faced with serious competition from Ryanair. Up to now, it's mostly been Ryanair playing the airports off eachother. Norwegian could potentially be an airline that'll give Ryanair a fun for it's money. Is this sustainable growth if it does happen? Probably not.
Best case scenario situations above, take all of that with a large pinch of salt.
I wouldn't disagree with your approach there but not sure all them routes would be sustainable - Couldn't see even half of them routes been sustainable on a year round basis but do agree the smaller aircraft if come on stream had also the Norwegian thing will shake things up - re legacy carriers irish people so conditioned to the Ryanair low fares model not sure how legacy carriers would cope - interesting times !!
Last edited by Dreamliner_01; 14th Feb 2017 at 09:09.
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Shannon/Ireland generally
Let's face it. In Ryanair's world we are too small for them to "develope" markets.
This w/e I travelled Marseille - Rome and back, Thursday/Sunday. Only about three empty seats both ways.
Aircraft, a brand new 737/800, originated in Lisbon, did the Mrs-Rom rotation and then back to Lisbon. Three times a week Winter, seven times, Summer.
Based in Lisbon, because of an argument with French social security, this is what Ryanair see as the future. Two large cachement areas, one aircraft, one crew.
This w/e I travelled Marseille - Rome and back, Thursday/Sunday. Only about three empty seats both ways.
Aircraft, a brand new 737/800, originated in Lisbon, did the Mrs-Rom rotation and then back to Lisbon. Three times a week Winter, seven times, Summer.
Based in Lisbon, because of an argument with French social security, this is what Ryanair see as the future. Two large cachement areas, one aircraft, one crew.
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shannon to get 3 weekly to New York and 2 weekly to Rhode Island in announcement tomorrow or next week my sources tell me - will take the shine off corks announcement somewhat - hard to see the strategic sense in this move but great news for shannon
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Norwegian confirms transatlantic flights from Dublin, Cork and Shannon from ?69 - Independent.ie
So Dublin 12, Shannon 4 and Cork 3 p/w.
Thats a lot of extra capacity across the pond.
So Dublin 12, Shannon 4 and Cork 3 p/w.
Thats a lot of extra capacity across the pond.
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Berlin cut from October, expect poor loads/forward booking to be the reason given, which will be the truth as Berlin switches to Tue/Sat soon.
Manchester still under consideration.
Manchester still under consideration.
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In other wards the service is chopped in favour of Kerry !! Another nail in the coffin for regional mainland European access unfortunately