NEWCASTLE
Brunel to Concorde
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Virtute et Industria, et Sumorsaete Ealle
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TOPPROP,
I wonder whether you would consider raising your topic in a separate thread. I would like to respond but much of my post would not relate to NCL, therefore I feel I oughtn't to take up space in this thread.
10 DME ARC,
You are correct in saying that NCL is bigger than BRS, although not by much. CAA provisional stats for the rolling 12 months ending October 05 show NCL handling 5,148,934 pax and BRS 5,108,269.
I regard the two airports as very similar. Apart from the current NCL top management team having previously been in the leading positions at BRS, the airports serve a broadly similar catchment size and the easyJet route between the two is, by some way, the busiest in passenger number terms between two English provincial cities.
Newcastle probably holds an advantage over BRS in having a longer runway, better land communications and the absence of LHR one hundred miles along the M4, although NCL does of course have air connections with the capital which BRS doesn't have.
Since the CO BRS-EWR route commenced there have been all sorts of rumours on its success or otherwise. First it was doing poorly, then it had improved. CO said they anticipated 75,000 pax in the first year. CAA stats seem to suggest that thus far it is on course to at least equal this figure, even taking into account normally lower winter loadings and the reduction to 5 rotations per week during the winter months.
What we don't know of course is the yield and whether the 75,000 target has been reviewed following fuel cost increases since the route commenced last May.
Some have suggested the AA decision has knocked back NCL's transatlantic chances by years. Unless economic conditions worsen markedly in the world, leading to wholesale route cancellations and schedule reductions, surely NCL must still be next in line for a UK scheduled connection to the New York area.
Finally, if for whatever reason CO pulled their BRS-EWR route (and I certainly hope they don't), would not BRS be in a far worse position as to future transatlantic operations than NCL is at present?
I wonder whether you would consider raising your topic in a separate thread. I would like to respond but much of my post would not relate to NCL, therefore I feel I oughtn't to take up space in this thread.
10 DME ARC,
You are correct in saying that NCL is bigger than BRS, although not by much. CAA provisional stats for the rolling 12 months ending October 05 show NCL handling 5,148,934 pax and BRS 5,108,269.
I regard the two airports as very similar. Apart from the current NCL top management team having previously been in the leading positions at BRS, the airports serve a broadly similar catchment size and the easyJet route between the two is, by some way, the busiest in passenger number terms between two English provincial cities.
Newcastle probably holds an advantage over BRS in having a longer runway, better land communications and the absence of LHR one hundred miles along the M4, although NCL does of course have air connections with the capital which BRS doesn't have.
Since the CO BRS-EWR route commenced there have been all sorts of rumours on its success or otherwise. First it was doing poorly, then it had improved. CO said they anticipated 75,000 pax in the first year. CAA stats seem to suggest that thus far it is on course to at least equal this figure, even taking into account normally lower winter loadings and the reduction to 5 rotations per week during the winter months.
What we don't know of course is the yield and whether the 75,000 target has been reviewed following fuel cost increases since the route commenced last May.
Some have suggested the AA decision has knocked back NCL's transatlantic chances by years. Unless economic conditions worsen markedly in the world, leading to wholesale route cancellations and schedule reductions, surely NCL must still be next in line for a UK scheduled connection to the New York area.
Finally, if for whatever reason CO pulled their BRS-EWR route (and I certainly hope they don't), would not BRS be in a far worse position as to future transatlantic operations than NCL is at present?
Join Date: Jul 2005
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Whatever the prospects for American on a route from JFK to Europe, the prospects for Continental on the same route from EWR will generally be better because Continental has far more ability to back up its routes with connecting traffic.
So, assuming that Continental is pleased with its 757 trans Atlantic strategy (and it seems to be, since it's still announcing new cities, the last being Cologne at the end of October), it's certain it will give NCL careful consideration.
What's the economy like in the Newcastle area? How easy is it to scoot up to Edinburgh?
So, assuming that Continental is pleased with its 757 trans Atlantic strategy (and it seems to be, since it's still announcing new cities, the last being Cologne at the end of October), it's certain it will give NCL careful consideration.
What's the economy like in the Newcastle area? How easy is it to scoot up to Edinburgh?
Join Date: Dec 2004
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NCL-JFK-ORD booking
Normally travel to Chicago via Amsterdam from Newcastle and this year thought I would give American Airlines/American Eagle my business -
Planned to travel 20 Jul 06 NCL-JFK-ORD and return the same route 03 Aug 06 - arrival time was slightly later than I liked, however it was a later start than the early KLM to AMS.
NO SEATS AVAIL outbound, offered NCL-LGW-ORD return on the
03 Aug 06 was as planned. now the crunch - the FARE was nearly £200.00 more than the KLM NCL-AMS-ORD and return which I wasn't prepared to pay. On a final note, it was cheaper to book from the States to Newcastle and pay by USD which I tried to do with my US Account - this was refused as I was a non US resident!
Some how I think American didn't want to operate the route, it would have been a one off operated by Boeing 757's across the pond - if anything went wrong another type subsititution would have been difficult.
Plus the route was not advertised/promoted very well within the area, infact I dont think I have seen an advert apart from the Airport Website.
Well Delta are keen to expand their Atlantic operation before they finally go bust next year....
Planned to travel 20 Jul 06 NCL-JFK-ORD and return the same route 03 Aug 06 - arrival time was slightly later than I liked, however it was a later start than the early KLM to AMS.
NO SEATS AVAIL outbound, offered NCL-LGW-ORD return on the
03 Aug 06 was as planned. now the crunch - the FARE was nearly £200.00 more than the KLM NCL-AMS-ORD and return which I wasn't prepared to pay. On a final note, it was cheaper to book from the States to Newcastle and pay by USD which I tried to do with my US Account - this was refused as I was a non US resident!
Some how I think American didn't want to operate the route, it would have been a one off operated by Boeing 757's across the pond - if anything went wrong another type subsititution would have been difficult.
Plus the route was not advertised/promoted very well within the area, infact I dont think I have seen an advert apart from the Airport Website.
Well Delta are keen to expand their Atlantic operation before they finally go bust next year....
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Some how I think American didn't want to operate the route
However what I also find difficult to comprehend is that Parkin is able to suggest that CO may come back into the frame. On a "micro" basis if I were the underbidder in a bidding war, two things, firstly if reapproached I'd realise my much stronger position & the cost would be that much greater, and secondly I would probably have moved on to other interests. Time does not stand still, AA has pulled out using fuel costs as an excuse, CO would not even need that to hold out for a "give away" deal.
It is abundantly clear to anyone reading the current press that the airport are desperate for "another suitor", my opinion is that CO is currently as exposed as it needs to be on it's UK route expansion policy,is happy for a period of consolidation, and can now see that there is absolutely no urgency to move into NE England as there are no other practical candidates out there.
I really hope I'm wrong, but I can see all the expectation simply dissapating, and it will indeed require some positive moves in improved airline ecconomics on a global scale before NCL has another chance at the US market.
However on the question of long haul routes in general, I still see a route to the Middle East, wherever, being the next most likely destination for a non IT route. Though hopefully Parkin "et al" will have learned that if this is the case, it will be necessary "to court" the most experienced suitor ie in this instance Emirates, as opposed to other more "fringe" operators whose names have been mooted on other discussion forums.
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I agree with most of the foregoing comments. I could never understand why AA wanted the route which would not only dilute its own HRW traffic but would also upset its ONEWORLD partner BA.
CO always seemed to me, the perfect operator for the route, not having access to HRW and having its huge hub operation at EWR, let's hope all is not lost.
I have been keeping an eye on the seatplans, which was made difficult by a large block being made unavailable for booking but I can say from my latest check of visible sales showed that the 2nd May flight had 18 bookings outward and the busiest day was 27th May with 82 at the last count. There was a good spread of double figure bookings throughout.
CO always seemed to me, the perfect operator for the route, not having access to HRW and having its huge hub operation at EWR, let's hope all is not lost.
I have been keeping an eye on the seatplans, which was made difficult by a large block being made unavailable for booking but I can say from my latest check of visible sales showed that the 2nd May flight had 18 bookings outward and the busiest day was 27th May with 82 at the last count. There was a good spread of double figure bookings throughout.
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Jet2 JFK
any liklihodd of Jet2 saving the day and launching thier own Newcastle-New York service, or would slots/range be an issue? im not sure if their B757's have the range...
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It is rather disappointing that NCL's first long haul scheduled service has been dropped before it even started, but I am among those who had their doubts to its viability. Quite often it is cheaper to fly to the US via the major hubs of LHR, AMS, CDG etc. Airlines like BA, KL and AF often offer extremely cheap connections, sometimes free and lets face it, the fares AA were charging were a little steep. Hopefully CO will step in and save NCL's long haul prospects as I am sure that a averagely priced long haul flight would work, but 7 days a week I am not convinced on.
On the subject of long haul, it is amazing how many pax actually travel down to MAN etc to catch long haul charter flights. Why has no tour operator realised the potential of such routes from NCL. Afterall, POP has proved a best seller, as has SSH from NCL and the SFB flights during the summer are always full. Why not offer the likes of POP/SFB year round, as an alternative winter sun destination? Thomson Holidays were, at one point selling both Cancun and Taba, but have since cancelled both. Maybe even a year round Canada service by Air Transat or Zoom, as YYZ is another highly used route and it has proved it works once a week, indeed a few years back there were 3 YYZ's per week. Maybe a winter 757 service?
Is Newcastle's expansion bubble starting to burst or are airlines looking in the wrong places for new route opportunities? As FR have reduced frequency on routes, as have easy will the new routes from Thomsonfly and Jet2 be so popular? One benefit NCL does have is that there is a varied choice of european services by airlines from the lowcost, full service scheduled and charter markets, though there has been little expansion from the latter two in previous years.
On the subject of long haul, it is amazing how many pax actually travel down to MAN etc to catch long haul charter flights. Why has no tour operator realised the potential of such routes from NCL. Afterall, POP has proved a best seller, as has SSH from NCL and the SFB flights during the summer are always full. Why not offer the likes of POP/SFB year round, as an alternative winter sun destination? Thomson Holidays were, at one point selling both Cancun and Taba, but have since cancelled both. Maybe even a year round Canada service by Air Transat or Zoom, as YYZ is another highly used route and it has proved it works once a week, indeed a few years back there were 3 YYZ's per week. Maybe a winter 757 service?
Is Newcastle's expansion bubble starting to burst or are airlines looking in the wrong places for new route opportunities? As FR have reduced frequency on routes, as have easy will the new routes from Thomsonfly and Jet2 be so popular? One benefit NCL does have is that there is a varied choice of european services by airlines from the lowcost, full service scheduled and charter markets, though there has been little expansion from the latter two in previous years.
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TRANSWEDE
Couldn't agree more with your comments.
Don't forget SAS re-opening CPN, hopefully to become double daily at some stage.
Aer Arran were originally going to operate DUB then withdrew when Ryanair stepped in. This is now cut to once daily with bad timings, a route like this needs AM and PM flights, come back Aer Arran, all is forgiven.
Couldn't agree more with your comments.
Don't forget SAS re-opening CPN, hopefully to become double daily at some stage.
Aer Arran were originally going to operate DUB then withdrew when Ryanair stepped in. This is now cut to once daily with bad timings, a route like this needs AM and PM flights, come back Aer Arran, all is forgiven.
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TRANSWEDE
Can't see where you are coming from on all year round YYZ service. Filling a once weekly summer IT flight really has no bearing at all on the viability of a YYZ sheduled service. The weekly summer NCL - YYZ is solely toursist's, a substantial number of these being VFR's & virtually no business users.
You might as well ask the question why no weekly summer IT's to NYC ? these were popular when operated by Jetsave in the 70's, & I presume their eventual downfall was more to the ecconomics of available aircraft at the time ie 707's & when loaded their propensity to produce spectacular take off runs on 25....
As for Loco's, my view on these hasn't changed ie great for flattering PAX no.'s, but "there are no free lunches" and as such giveaways are unsustainable. Loco's feed off inducing high load factors by attracting tourists at whatever price, what we are now begining to see are the symptoms of saturation in some markets, ie "the been there, where to next?" mentality. Hence the need to invent new destinations & thining of shedules now becoming more common.
As for the guy who suggested a combination of NYC shedule with Loco's in the form of JET 2 operation.......ridiculous !
Can't see where you are coming from on all year round YYZ service. Filling a once weekly summer IT flight really has no bearing at all on the viability of a YYZ sheduled service. The weekly summer NCL - YYZ is solely toursist's, a substantial number of these being VFR's & virtually no business users.
You might as well ask the question why no weekly summer IT's to NYC ? these were popular when operated by Jetsave in the 70's, & I presume their eventual downfall was more to the ecconomics of available aircraft at the time ie 707's & when loaded their propensity to produce spectacular take off runs on 25....
As for Loco's, my view on these hasn't changed ie great for flattering PAX no.'s, but "there are no free lunches" and as such giveaways are unsustainable. Loco's feed off inducing high load factors by attracting tourists at whatever price, what we are now begining to see are the symptoms of saturation in some markets, ie "the been there, where to next?" mentality. Hence the need to invent new destinations & thining of shedules now becoming more common.
As for the guy who suggested a combination of NYC shedule with Loco's in the form of JET 2 operation.......ridiculous !
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Easyjet 7th aircraft
Anybody else noticed that 7 aircraft are needed on wednesdays??
Budapest and faro.
looking at my timetable the aircraft operates one day to budapest then faro the next but both are showing for flights on wednesdays.
Im looking at wednesday the 2nd of august if anybody wants to check.
Thanks
Anybody else noticed that 7 aircraft are needed on wednesdays??
Budapest and faro.
looking at my timetable the aircraft operates one day to budapest then faro the next but both are showing for flights on wednesdays.
Im looking at wednesday the 2nd of august if anybody wants to check.
Thanks
Join Date: Oct 2004
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Easyjet
Just noticed no wednesday flight to berlin so yes i does fit.
Thanks for that
EASYJET SUMMER 2006
MON-FRI
AIRCRAFT 1
BFS EZY551/2 12345 07:10 09:25
BCN EZY6401/212345 09:50 15:40
STN EZY516/7 12345 16:35 19:15
STN EZY518/9 12345 19:40 22:20
AIRCRAFT 2
BRS EZY567/8 12345 07:00 09:35
PRG EZY6495/612345 10:00 14:50
CDG EZY6433/412345 15:15 19:00
BRISTOL EZY573/4 12345 19:25 21:55
AIRCRAFT 3
AGP EZY6407/812345 06:20 13:15
BFS EZY553/4 12345 13:55 16:05
BUDAPEST EZY6453/41.3.5 16:30 22:20
FARO EZY6443/4.2.4. 16:30 23:20
AIRCRAFT 4
NICE EZY6437/812345 07:15 12:35
GENEVA EZY6465/61 345 13:10 17:45
BERLIN EZY6487/812.45 18:10 22:30
FARO EZY6449/50..3.. 18:20 01:10
AIRCRAFT 5
ROME EZY6471/212345 07:35 14:05
BRISTOL EZY571/2 12345 16:00 18:30
PALMA EZY6421/212345 18:55 01:05
AIRCRAFT 6
STN EZY512/3 12345 06:40 09:20
STN EZY514/5 12345 09:45 12:20
ALICANTE EZY6413/412345 13:20 19:55
BELFAST EZY555/6 12345 20:20 22:20
the only gap i can see is aircraft 4 on tuesdays from 12:35 until 18:00
Just noticed no wednesday flight to berlin so yes i does fit.
Thanks for that
EASYJET SUMMER 2006
MON-FRI
AIRCRAFT 1
BFS EZY551/2 12345 07:10 09:25
BCN EZY6401/212345 09:50 15:40
STN EZY516/7 12345 16:35 19:15
STN EZY518/9 12345 19:40 22:20
AIRCRAFT 2
BRS EZY567/8 12345 07:00 09:35
PRG EZY6495/612345 10:00 14:50
CDG EZY6433/412345 15:15 19:00
BRISTOL EZY573/4 12345 19:25 21:55
AIRCRAFT 3
AGP EZY6407/812345 06:20 13:15
BFS EZY553/4 12345 13:55 16:05
BUDAPEST EZY6453/41.3.5 16:30 22:20
FARO EZY6443/4.2.4. 16:30 23:20
AIRCRAFT 4
NICE EZY6437/812345 07:15 12:35
GENEVA EZY6465/61 345 13:10 17:45
BERLIN EZY6487/812.45 18:10 22:30
FARO EZY6449/50..3.. 18:20 01:10
AIRCRAFT 5
ROME EZY6471/212345 07:35 14:05
BRISTOL EZY571/2 12345 16:00 18:30
PALMA EZY6421/212345 18:55 01:05
AIRCRAFT 6
STN EZY512/3 12345 06:40 09:20
STN EZY514/5 12345 09:45 12:20
ALICANTE EZY6413/412345 13:20 19:55
BELFAST EZY555/6 12345 20:20 22:20
the only gap i can see is aircraft 4 on tuesdays from 12:35 until 18:00