NEWCASTLE
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TRAVEL AGENT
I think you are correct but Copenhagen Airports seemed to have control of the Management and operation of the airport and, I think, a big say in the investment decisions
I think you are correct but Copenhagen Airports seemed to have control of the Management and operation of the airport and, I think, a big say in the investment decisions
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AA JFK
Yes its gone from booking system, have they dropped it before its started surely not!!
UPDATE!
It HAS been cancelled. See airport website. AA says high fuel prices forced it to reconsider expansion plans for 2006
UPDATE!
It HAS been cancelled. See airport website. AA says high fuel prices forced it to reconsider expansion plans for 2006
Last edited by fl dutchman; 16th Dec 2005 at 11:10.
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I believe the advanced booking figures for JFK, although still along way from the proposed start date, had not reached the percentage they required by anything like what they needed for it to go ahead. Obviously a non-starter from its conception. As you say, maybe CO will show an interest, as they appear to be more successful at other regional airports.
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Coasting
I am sorry but you are incorrect, the advance booking I have been told (from someone very close to this in authority) were more than expected and for a new route were doing very well, much on par with every other established AA uk route!
The good people of the Northeast had taken very much to this route and are fed up with having to travel via another airport! We in the Northeast don't have the luxury of choice for direct transatlantic like some airports do!
Ah well I am taking the refund, keep it for an airline that can see the vast potential the Northeast has!
I am sorry but you are incorrect, the advance booking I have been told (from someone very close to this in authority) were more than expected and for a new route were doing very well, much on par with every other established AA uk route!
The good people of the Northeast had taken very much to this route and are fed up with having to travel via another airport! We in the Northeast don't have the luxury of choice for direct transatlantic like some airports do!
Ah well I am taking the refund, keep it for an airline that can see the vast potential the Northeast has!
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Very disapointing. My grandparents were supposed to be on the first flight.
As the above message says, you are wrong:
Mr Parkin, NIA
Craig Kreeger, AA
Alan Clarke, One NorthEast
I believe the advanced booking figures for JFK, although still along way from the proposed start date, had not reached the percentage they required by anything like what they needed for it to go ahead. Obviously a non-starter from its conception.
Mr Parkin, NIA
“While we are of course hugely disappointed at this news, we understand the exceptional market conditions faced by US airlines in general. In particular, the massive and sustained rise in fuel prices in the wake of hurricanes Rita and Katrina. We consider this to be a temporary set back to Newcastle’s plans to become a much needed transatlantic gateway for the North East region. We remain confident that it is only a matter of time before we secure such a service and together with ONE North East discussions are being reopened with a number of other airlines which had expressed interest in operating services between Newcastle and New York.''
Craig Kreeger, AA
We remain convinced that a route serving Newcastle and the North east would be an attractive opportunity given more stable market conditions in our industry.
“We have all worked very hard to bring the New York route here; unfortunately, we are a victim of global forces beyond our control and American Airline’s decision is not a reflection on the region and its ability to deliver. One NorthEast is working together with Newcastle International to bring new routes and encourage investment in the region. We are very optimistic that a number of key new routes will be announced next year.”
Last edited by NCLRULES; 16th Dec 2005 at 15:57.
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Good point, there are certainly gaps in the timetable for something else with Budapest now at reduced frequency. Not sure about whether/when a/c No.7 will happen.
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An article in AIRLINER WORLD quoting VLM, states that they are still interested in operating NCL - LCY even competing with Eastern.
If they can get the right slots they feel it is a route they can develop.
NCL remains listed on their website.
If they can get the right slots they feel it is a route they can develop.
NCL remains listed on their website.
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AA's Rebuff !
Well I only learnt of this last night just before going out to a clients Xmas bash which was predictably boring & gave me some time to ponder on this action.
In retrospect the initial announcement of AA's proposed service was a stunner & probably ranked as one of the most significant in the last 10 years of NCL's operations, even having regards to those that have appertained to Easyjet & all those Loco's that have followed.
It just shows that one must not get carried away, eg the rather "jingoistic" comments I noted recently on this link suggesting that NCL may one day take on BHX and an even larger establishment whose comparison is far too ridiculous to even mention again.
To me the whole sorry debacle, as this is what it is turning out to be, was just too good to be true, has given me a feeling something akin to when one notes an advert for an item which is impossibly cheap & when followed up it isn't cheap after all, but simply a misprint.
What were AA thinking about ?, all this nonsense about fuel costs in this instance is in isolation an irrelevance. Also personally I do not accept that load factors would not have been excellent, though how any moron can in the short time that has been available, suggest that poor advance sales was a factor is beyond me. No one can judge a route which through AA's own incompetence in its endeavours to licence in the US courts took considerably longer to put on sale, in addition business traffic which creates the higher revenues are by their nature not booked until very near departure & AA would more than anyone be aware of this.
No the whole issue is simply down to politics, once again the North East is the loser in the "North-South" divide. Recent developments in bilateral agreements are likely to yield US airlines & AA in particular greater access in the South East & LHR , so why even bother with overhead and the percieved gamble now in launching a "thin route" to a place that very few in the US are familiar with ?
Unfortunately considerable damage has now been done to NCL's reputation & I for one doubt whether any US airline will be remotely interested in touching us in the next 10 years. After all as a quote on the previous link to "...********.com" put it we are "only 91 miles from Edinburgh!", BUT as everyone fails to mention, we suffer from serious discrimination as regards road transport links in the North East and perhaps it is more relevant to mention that from the perspecitve of most NE residents it may as well be 191 miles for the use it is.
Finally there is of course one winner in all this BA, who must be sparing themselves the odd smile, their future business traffic stream to LHR T5 is looking less vulnerable & also any cnflict with their partner AA no longer exists.
NCL are going to have to pull all their resource to overcome this, "buying " passenger numbers with Loco's is all well & good, but these punters are fickle and in most cases price sensitive, a very risky market as a basis for a long term strategy.
In retrospect the initial announcement of AA's proposed service was a stunner & probably ranked as one of the most significant in the last 10 years of NCL's operations, even having regards to those that have appertained to Easyjet & all those Loco's that have followed.
It just shows that one must not get carried away, eg the rather "jingoistic" comments I noted recently on this link suggesting that NCL may one day take on BHX and an even larger establishment whose comparison is far too ridiculous to even mention again.
To me the whole sorry debacle, as this is what it is turning out to be, was just too good to be true, has given me a feeling something akin to when one notes an advert for an item which is impossibly cheap & when followed up it isn't cheap after all, but simply a misprint.
What were AA thinking about ?, all this nonsense about fuel costs in this instance is in isolation an irrelevance. Also personally I do not accept that load factors would not have been excellent, though how any moron can in the short time that has been available, suggest that poor advance sales was a factor is beyond me. No one can judge a route which through AA's own incompetence in its endeavours to licence in the US courts took considerably longer to put on sale, in addition business traffic which creates the higher revenues are by their nature not booked until very near departure & AA would more than anyone be aware of this.
No the whole issue is simply down to politics, once again the North East is the loser in the "North-South" divide. Recent developments in bilateral agreements are likely to yield US airlines & AA in particular greater access in the South East & LHR , so why even bother with overhead and the percieved gamble now in launching a "thin route" to a place that very few in the US are familiar with ?
Unfortunately considerable damage has now been done to NCL's reputation & I for one doubt whether any US airline will be remotely interested in touching us in the next 10 years. After all as a quote on the previous link to "...********.com" put it we are "only 91 miles from Edinburgh!", BUT as everyone fails to mention, we suffer from serious discrimination as regards road transport links in the North East and perhaps it is more relevant to mention that from the perspecitve of most NE residents it may as well be 191 miles for the use it is.
Finally there is of course one winner in all this BA, who must be sparing themselves the odd smile, their future business traffic stream to LHR T5 is looking less vulnerable & also any cnflict with their partner AA no longer exists.
NCL are going to have to pull all their resource to overcome this, "buying " passenger numbers with Loco's is all well & good, but these punters are fickle and in most cases price sensitive, a very risky market as a basis for a long term strategy.
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Aviation White Paper Disaster - Assumptions set to waste billions!
The following link applies to all airports, forgive me for posting in the Newcastle forum however it's NCL that is of interest to me and I believe that Newcastle have been getting carried away with their growth predictions. Too much spin and I don't know what to believe, over 9 million pax by 2013 for NCL is one such prediction that I heard recently, that is an extra 4 million in just 8 years, how have they arrived at this figure? Do those of you who contribute to this forum believe that this is achievable? Anyone heard what the prediction is for 2030?
The government's aviation white paper which contains the key forecast that air travel will double by 2030. This forecast is the key justification for a whole raft of airport expansion projects across our country with costs running into billions.
The issue is that the forecast is based on flights getting cheaper, GDP growth averaging 2.25% both unlikely and the real clanger, that oil price will stabilise at $25!!!
Aviation White Paper Disaster
The government's aviation white paper which contains the key forecast that air travel will double by 2030. This forecast is the key justification for a whole raft of airport expansion projects across our country with costs running into billions.
The issue is that the forecast is based on flights getting cheaper, GDP growth averaging 2.25% both unlikely and the real clanger, that oil price will stabilise at $25!!!
Aviation White Paper Disaster
Last edited by TOPPROP; 17th Dec 2005 at 16:34.
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though how any moron can in the short time that has been available, suggest that poor
Advance sales do play an important part in a new route Yes, the big money is the last minute business which I am certain there would have been. A percentage figure will have had to be reached even this far ahead of a new route starting, plus as you say some politics invovled. I am surprised it was pulled though just before the 'after christmas' big holiday sell which comes shortly, which again points to the politics. Yes the fuel costs, Rita and Katrina appear to me as just a polite way of saying "thanks but no thanks" we are bailing out.
So don't dismiss anyone who dares make a comment against Newcastles advanced passenger figures as being a moron. You will have to accept that only a small percentage of people live in the northeast compared to the rest of the UK. What is great for Newcastle means nothing to me in Brighton. Newcastle is just another regional like the rest of them, who also get knock backs. You will get more in the future just like the others. You are not immune, the likes of Cardiff, Bournemouth, Teesside, Humberside and Leeds to name a few, have their highs and lows. Just get over it. I'm sure the Airport Management will and have done, and will extract something positive from the experience as much as it appears to be a kick in the face at the moment
I do not think it will be 10 years before another US airline looks at Newcastle. It could be sooner than you think. That is only my personal thoughts, however my knowledge of the airline concerned is far greater than you obviously want to believe and accept at the moment.
So don't dismiss anyone who dares make a comment against Newcastles advanced passenger figures as being a moron. You will have to accept that only a small percentage of people live in the northeast compared to the rest of the UK. What is great for Newcastle means nothing to me in Brighton. Newcastle is just another regional like the rest of them, who also get knock backs. You will get more in the future just like the others. You are not immune, the likes of Cardiff, Bournemouth, Teesside, Humberside and Leeds to name a few, have their highs and lows. Just get over it. I'm sure the Airport Management will and have done, and will extract something positive from the experience as much as it appears to be a kick in the face at the moment
I do not think it will be 10 years before another US airline looks at Newcastle. It could be sooner than you think. That is only my personal thoughts, however my knowledge of the airline concerned is far greater than you obviously want to believe and accept at the moment.
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Coasting
Sorry to keep butting in but…. Your knowledge of the aviation business obviously does not stretch to regional airport? Yes Newcastle is a regional airport ‘outside the Southeast’ of England however your examples of an airport ‘like’ Newcastle are not quite right!
“Cardiff, Bournemouth, Teesside, Humberside and Leeds to name a few”
CAA passenger stats 12 months to September this year.
Cardiff 1.781m pax
Bournemouth 0.738m pax
Teesside 0.890m pax
Humberside 0.466m pax
Leeds 2.515m pax
And Newcastle 5.101m pax (Month ending November 5.2m forecast 06 5.9m even without AA)
That is double the biggest of your ‘regional selection’. Newcastle is the ninth busiest airport in the UK. It was ninth even before the explosion of low cost!
It is busier than Bristol which has a transatlantic route with Continental! Like I said the people of the Northeast deserve better air links, we do not have the luxury of dozens of long haul flights on the door step!
Sorry to keep butting in but…. Your knowledge of the aviation business obviously does not stretch to regional airport? Yes Newcastle is a regional airport ‘outside the Southeast’ of England however your examples of an airport ‘like’ Newcastle are not quite right!
“Cardiff, Bournemouth, Teesside, Humberside and Leeds to name a few”
CAA passenger stats 12 months to September this year.
Cardiff 1.781m pax
Bournemouth 0.738m pax
Teesside 0.890m pax
Humberside 0.466m pax
Leeds 2.515m pax
And Newcastle 5.101m pax (Month ending November 5.2m forecast 06 5.9m even without AA)
That is double the biggest of your ‘regional selection’. Newcastle is the ninth busiest airport in the UK. It was ninth even before the explosion of low cost!
It is busier than Bristol which has a transatlantic route with Continental! Like I said the people of the Northeast deserve better air links, we do not have the luxury of dozens of long haul flights on the door step!
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Just reading the article in the 'the Journal' there tonight and everyone is insisting that there has been a lot of demand for the flight and the cancellation of the route isn't a reflection on the region not being able to deliver.
American Airlines bosses even stated that the route had reached expectations, and it's very attractive route opportunity, but they can't take the risk at operating the route under the current industry conditions. They said there are more setbacks to come across their worldwide network (Some have already been rumoured on internet forums). They even said the first flight was fully booked, as was many other flights throughout May. The booking numbers were also looking very positive for the rest of the season. I imagine even more bookings would of been made after the Christmas period, as this is when most people plan their new year travels. The route was expected to attract around 60,000 passengers. American bosses also said they were originally looking to employ 51 people in the region, but they were looking at employing a further 49 (total 100). Local businesses are very disapointed, and they expected the route to bring 5m into the region. It also mentioned 12% of the regions cargo goes to New York.
The headline in the paper was ''New York is off - for now''. As I have already said in this thread, John Parkin has reopened discussions with Continental and is hoping it won't be long before the route is back on. He said last April it was head to head with both AA and CO for the route, AA obviously being the winner. The former boss of Gill Air also has his bet on Continental picking up the pieces.
Also, something very interesting. It said in the paper that they are hoping for 'a new long-haul route' soon. I'm not quite sure if they mean a 'new route' to New York, but by the sounds of it, it means a 'new route'. Possibly Dubai?
The airport has seen exceptional growth in the last 3 years, with passengers rising from around 3million to 5.5million. John Parkin is confident to top the 6 million mark next year, without American. He said a new route has been announced each month for the last two years - which doesn't happen at many airports!
Overall we have gained these routes this year: Ibiza, Oslo, Faro, Pisa, Amsterdam (LCC), Milan, Menorca, London City, Murcia, Cork, with extra flights to Alicante, Malaga, Ibiza and Palma. That's only on the scheduled front, loads more charter routes for next summer.
We've also welcomed Jet2 and Thomsonfly to NCL this year. So it may seem a big blow, but things really are great!! Hopefully 2006 will be as successful as 2004 and 2005 have been!
American Airlines bosses even stated that the route had reached expectations, and it's very attractive route opportunity, but they can't take the risk at operating the route under the current industry conditions. They said there are more setbacks to come across their worldwide network (Some have already been rumoured on internet forums). They even said the first flight was fully booked, as was many other flights throughout May. The booking numbers were also looking very positive for the rest of the season. I imagine even more bookings would of been made after the Christmas period, as this is when most people plan their new year travels. The route was expected to attract around 60,000 passengers. American bosses also said they were originally looking to employ 51 people in the region, but they were looking at employing a further 49 (total 100). Local businesses are very disapointed, and they expected the route to bring 5m into the region. It also mentioned 12% of the regions cargo goes to New York.
The headline in the paper was ''New York is off - for now''. As I have already said in this thread, John Parkin has reopened discussions with Continental and is hoping it won't be long before the route is back on. He said last April it was head to head with both AA and CO for the route, AA obviously being the winner. The former boss of Gill Air also has his bet on Continental picking up the pieces.
Also, something very interesting. It said in the paper that they are hoping for 'a new long-haul route' soon. I'm not quite sure if they mean a 'new route' to New York, but by the sounds of it, it means a 'new route'. Possibly Dubai?
The airport has seen exceptional growth in the last 3 years, with passengers rising from around 3million to 5.5million. John Parkin is confident to top the 6 million mark next year, without American. He said a new route has been announced each month for the last two years - which doesn't happen at many airports!
Overall we have gained these routes this year: Ibiza, Oslo, Faro, Pisa, Amsterdam (LCC), Milan, Menorca, London City, Murcia, Cork, with extra flights to Alicante, Malaga, Ibiza and Palma. That's only on the scheduled front, loads more charter routes for next summer.
We've also welcomed Jet2 and Thomsonfly to NCL this year. So it may seem a big blow, but things really are great!! Hopefully 2006 will be as successful as 2004 and 2005 have been!
Last edited by NCLRULES; 17th Dec 2005 at 19:10.