Except for launch and recovery of the ROV the ship will be to all intents and purposes directly over the wreck. If they are looking for odd pieces of wreckage they will perform a grid survey and in that situation they will wander away from the main wreckage.
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on French radio this morning the former head of the BEA confirmed that for investigation purposes they would not need to be retrieving the aircraft. Inspecting visually the cockpit (e.g. if anti- icing was on a, which air source was selected, state of the propeller, etc.). , using an ROV would be enough.
He also said that normally a GA SEP on a VFR flight plan lost at sea would not cause a major investigation and definitively not retrieving the aircraft from the sea bed. |
I would have thought a recovery would be necessary to assess the state of the engine at the time of the ditching. Irrespective of all the other speculation, if the fan quit prior to the descent, I would imagine the maintenance organisation would find themselves in the legal cross hairs. Regardless of the rest of the legal conjecture etc etc, the accident will have happened because of one or more of three factors: 1) Icing 2) Pilot malfunction of some sort or 3) Engine out. The last being pretty significant.
I cannot imagine why they weren't carrying an ELT in the aircraft ready to activate in situations where it all goes wrong... |
I would hope that this accident would also have a police investigation, and possible criminal and civil case. |
Originally Posted by Good Business Sense
(Post 10380486)
....... unfortunately, most are not going there anyway - most are offering any day, any time, any destination, overnights etc etc - "just ask" - to me that's a commercial charter but the UK CAA and EASA don't agree - after the first Wingly crash the courts will decide.
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‘The disappearance of Emiliano Sala is still being discussed around the world after his plane went missing en route from Nantes to Cardiff. Maximiliano Duarte, a close friend of the footballer, has pointed the finger of blame at the player's representative. "He is responsible," Duarte said of the representative to America Noticias. "The great truth behind all this is that there is a culprit because Emiliano never decided to get on that plane. "These are all obligations that one has and as a professional he accepted. "Emi was forced to board the plane that night." Willie McKay was the player's representative, who arranged the Piper Malibu to take him from Nantes to Cardiff.’ So, if we believe all the reports, we possibly have a pilot who didn’t want to fly at night and we have a passenger who didn’t want to fly at night meaning that the departure was forced by a person/persons who weren’t actually on board. |
So, if we believe all the reports, we possibly have a pilot who didn’t want to fly at night and we have a passenger who didn’t want to fly at night meaning that the departure was forced by a person/persons who weren’t actually on board. 2 s |
Originally Posted by 2 sheds
(Post 10380962)
At least we can rely on the AAIB to apply a bit more logic than that!
2 s |
Originally Posted by Chronus
(Post 10380290)
The CAA would be greatly concerned in their role as a supervisory authority. Particularly given the fact that they may come under the light of public scrutiny and critisizim for permitting so called cost-sharing by PPL holders outside AOC operations and failing to effectively monitor activities within such operations. There is very little doubt that this accident, now featuring the headlines, since the event has attracted public attention. It will not be too long before the Secretary of State for Transport picks up his phone and invites the head of the CAA for a brief chat.
Where people are prepared to operate illegal flights that should be carried under an AOC the Regulators are somewhat at a disadvantage because of the need to gather objective evidence that will stand scrutiny in a Court or at an appeal hearing. In such cases the pilot and passengers are highly unlikely to act as witnesses and I would not think that passenger tickets are issued! Post # 842 articulates some of the issues. |
Originally Posted by happybiker
(Post 10380985)
Cost sharing for PPL holders is permitted by the Regulations of EASA and the CAA who have published a guidance document CAP 1590 and, as discussed previously in this thread, it only applies to the direct operating costs of a flight. The pilot is required to make a contribution to the direct costs. As a result of this accident you imply that the CAA has in someway failed to effectively monitor activities within such operations. Considering that this flight was carried out by a USA registered aircraft from an airport in France I struggle to see how you could reach this conclusion. Regulators, including CAA, do not have unlimited resources and would not routinely monitor GA activities outside of their own State.
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Does anyone know approx how many total hours the pilot had? If he had a valid FAA medical his total hours should be on his last medical application. It would be interesting to know his recent hours too and if he had done his 3 take off and landings in the last 90 days.
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Isn't the main problem here that people who take flights in conditions such as this are totally unaware that they are at risk. All they know is that this is a cheaper/more convenient way of getting from A to B and they trust the System to protect them.
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If they recover the GPS it should answer a bunch of questions as it will have been recording position (every second, or even more?) until being submerged.
And the odds are that the data is okay. |
Originally Posted by suninmyeyes
(Post 10381018)
Does anyone know approx how many total hours the pilot had? If he had a valid FAA medical his total hours should be on his last medical application. It would be interesting to know his recent hours too and if he had done his 3 take off and landings in the last 90 days.
An application for an FAA medical allows entry of flight time but there is no requirement to enter any flight time. In summary - there is no reason to assume total hours will be available on the last medical application. Also, 3 takeoffs and landings does not necessarily meet currency requirements for carrying passengers at night while exercising the privileges of an FAA issued PPL. The requirement is 3 night takeoffs and 3 night landings to a full stop. Lots of people who are current to carry passengers in the day are not current to carry passengers at night. Even those who think they are current because they have logged 3 night full stop landings may not be current since 3 night takeoffs are also required. |
Originally Posted by funfly
(Post 10381021)
Isn't the main problem here that people who take flights in conditions such as this are totally unaware that they are at risk. All they know is that this is a cheaper/more convenient way of getting from A to B and they trust the System to protect them.
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Originally Posted by mryan75
(Post 10381067)
Yes. It is absolutely shocking that this sort of thing is allowed in Europe.
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Originally Posted by what next
(Post 10381079)
Originally Posted by mryan75
(Post 10381067)
Yes. It is absolutely shocking that this sort of thing is allowed in Europe.
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Originally Posted by S-Works
(Post 10381031)
Personally I think it was just flown straight into the deck.
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Originally Posted by jecuk
(Post 10381012)
The plane was UK based as was the pilot and the person who is alleged to have been organising these flights. They seem to have been taking place for a while. The flight appears to have been part of a roundtrip. How is the CAA not (at least partly) responsible for enforcement?
Unsafe flying
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Originally Posted by EXDAC
(Post 10381049)
An FAA medical is not required to exercise the privileges of an FAA issued PPL. "Basic Med" is an allowed alternative.
An application for an FAA medical allows entry of flight time but there is no requirement to enter any flight time. In summary - there is no reason to assume total hours will be available on the last medical application. Also, 3 takeoffs and landings does not necessarily meet currency requirements for carrying passengers at night while exercising the privileges of an FAA issued PPL. The requirement is 3 night takeoffs and 3 night landings to a full stop. Lots of people who are current to carry passengers in the day are not current to carry passengers at night. Even those who think they are current because they have logged 3 night full stop landings may not be current since 3 night takeoffs are also required. He doesn't have a stand alone issued FAA PPL, he has an FAA PPL 61:75 issued on the strength/basis of his UK PPL, therefore all operating privileges and restrictions associated with the UK PPL must be adhered to whilst operating an FAA 'N' registered aircraft. No FAA medical is required for this type of 61:75 FAA licence, he must keep his UK medical current and adhere to any restrictions on his UK PPL medical to be able to use the privilege of the FAA 61:75 certificate. Therefore having no instrument rating or night qualifications for his UK PPL means he cannot operate an 'N' reg aircraft in IMC or night conditions with the FAA PPL. |
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