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-   -   Cardiff City Footballer Feared Missing after aircraft disappeared near Channel Island (https://www.pprune.org/accidents-close-calls/617514-cardiff-city-footballer-feared-missing-after-aircraft-disappeared-near-channel-island.html)

733driver 1st Oct 2022 19:21


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11306249)
What I don't understand with this unfortunate incident is the apparent complicity of the footballer in question (not blaming him here, this is just an opinion, observation) to fly in the aircraft in the first place.
Obviously with hindsight but if it was me, I would have insisted a main carrier first class with all the bells and whistles. After all he was worth several million. Academic of course but flying with a single pilot in a small aircraft doesn't seem to fit the footballer lifestyle?

I haven't checked but strongly suspect there is no airline service from Nantes to Cardiff, let alone by a major airline and certainly not first class as that doesn't generally exist on short haul European flights.

Footballers travel regularilly on small aicraft. Many private jets are not much bigger than the accident aircraft and some are flown single Pilot but not commercially in Europe.

I do however agree to an extent with the point you are trying to make.

SWBKCB 1st Oct 2022 19:38


I haven't checked but strongly suspect there is no airline service from Nantes to Cardiff, let alone by a major airline and certainly not first class as that doesn't generally exist on short haul European flights.
The most direct route would have been via Amsterdam

ATC Watcher 2nd Oct 2022 15:59


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11306321)
The most direct route would have been via Amsterdam

And safest in this case, which if I remember was proposed initially to the Club but it was refused in favor of this flight.
Does anyone knows if the British Club actually paid for the footballer transfer in the end ? They initially refused, there was court case , but I missed the results or if a compromise was found in the meantime

jumpseater 2nd Oct 2022 16:47


Originally Posted by ATC Watcher (Post 11306765)
Does anyone knows if the British Club actually paid for the footballer transfer in the end ? They initially refused, there was court case , but I missed the results or if a compromise was found in the meantime

Fifa have determined that Cardiff should pay £5.1m, the first installment to Nantes. Cardiff are not paying anything and appealing the decision. If that fails they will take legal action against ‘those responsible for the crash for damages to recover its losses’.
So presumably that means the McKay agent/s Henderson and perhaps the estate of Ibbotson.

733driver 2nd Oct 2022 20:17


Originally Posted by ATC Watcher (Post 11306765)
And safest in this case, which if I remember was proposed initially to the Club but it was refused in favor of this flight.

Certainly safer than the chosen option but why safest? A direct flight on a well maintained twin-turbine business aircraft flown by a professional crew of two in compliance with rules and regulations would have been just fine, would it not.

WHBM 3rd Oct 2022 07:56


Originally Posted by SWBKCB (Post 11306321)
The most direct route would have been via Amsterdam

Timings at the time are back in post #110 of this thread, all on KLM Nantes-Amsterdam-Cardiff. Actually not a huge timing difference, depart Nantes 1715.

Mike Flynn 10th Oct 2022 19:42

I have made my point on this in the past but even if a fully qualified pilot had been in the left hand seat the carbon monoxide leak would have produced the same result. The one thing to learn from this accident is that cheap carbon monoxide alarms are available and should be mandatory in all light aircraft.

Eutychus 11th Oct 2022 06:52


Originally Posted by uxb99 (Post 11306249)
Obviously with hindsight but if it was me, I would have insisted a main carrier first class with all the bells and whistles. After all he was worth several million. Academic of course but flying with a single pilot in a small aircraft doesn't seem to fit the footballer lifestyle?

As mentioned in this thread previously, for work purposes I've flown as a passenger in a single pilot piston engine aircraft to the Channel Islands and back with a senior French government official on board. He might not have been worth millions but the diplomatic fallout had anything happened would have been significant.

If one is in a business situation at that level where other people are making the arrangements I think it's quite natural for the passengers to assume the operation is safe. As you can read from earlier in this thread, it took me this accident and this thread for me to realise how unsafe such an operation can become, and to realise that I was probably not insured on any of the several similar flights I took.

paulross 11th Oct 2022 20:36


Originally Posted by Mike Flynn (Post 11311220)
I have made my point on this in the past but even if a fully qualified pilot had been in the left hand seat the carbon monoxide leak would have produced the same result. The one thing to learn from this accident is that cheap carbon monoxide alarms are available and should be mandatory in all light aircraft.

The AAIB have a recommendation about this from July 1972, 50 years ago: 13-1972_G-AYPN.pdf (last page).

OvertHawk 12th Oct 2022 09:56


Originally Posted by paulross (Post 11311805)
The AAIB have a recommendation about this from July 1972, 50 years ago: 13-1972_G-AYPN.pdf (last page).

The worldwide supply of new accidents is rapidly diminishing - we need to keep recycling the old ones!


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